Oscar

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Things I've learned on talk Chelsea: mikel and Cahill are great players while fabregas and Oscar are shit.

You learned that on TC hey? I learned that watching the latter two fall over themselves..

Those two might be great player individually but they're not 'great' for the team and that's quite evident. You don't need us to tell you that. The fact Hiddink and Mourinho have both dropped Cesc at various times most recently highlights that? The fact Oscar hasn't put in a worldie since Juve 2013 should be evident enough.

It's not so much that Mikel and Cahill are great players either, it's that at least their flaws don't come at a higher stake than Fabregas and Oscar's

[robsblubot 3,531]

If Oscar was consistent, he wouldn't be put into the garbage bin

That's really not my point though.

I am not questioning whether he is good enough or not... just that in my head we cannot call Oscar 'shit' and at the same time say Mikel "does a job".

Neither player is 'shit' but I personally think that Oscar is FAR closer to "good enough" than most other players who get a pass for one reason or another. Especially considering he's still fairly young.

@LDN Blue can't agree with that really. However weak, however poor Fabregas may be - I am not a fan - he's twice the player Mikel is.

[FabHazard 655]

Why the fuck he is our no 1 penalty taker?.. Really dumb decision from management

[Reddish-Blue 2,357]

That's really not my point though.

I am not questioning whether he is good enough or not... just that in my head we cannot call Oscar 'shit' and at the same time say Mikel "does a job".

Neither player is 'shit' but I personally think that Oscar is FAR closer to "good enough" than most other players who get a pass for one reason or another. Especially considering he's 30 yet....

It's all about expectations.

We expect Oscar to be our starting #10, we expect him to lead us to victory with goals/assists...and when he fails to deliver, we call him shite.

As for Mikel, we don't expect him to be anything more than a squad filler and as a result, when he does okay, fans say "he does a job"

[LDN Blue 7,903]

@LDN Blue can't agree with that really. However weak, however poor Fabregas may be - I am not a fan - he's twice the player Mikel is.

Tbh, they're not really comparable for what they do lol. I was speaking generically in the moment we're in now.

I mean of course Fabregas is capable of much more than Mikel. That's quite obvious. But he's not doing it now and when he's become such a.. passenger(?).. It's easy to point to Mikel being able to 'do a job' higher than Fabregas not being able to.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Why the fuck he is our no 1 penalty taker?.. Really dumb decision from management

Well considering Hazard missed the last few he was involved in.. Plus I don't think it's a management decision per se either, players clearly have their input to that decision too.

[robsblubot 3,531]

It's all about expectations.

We expect Oscar to be our starting #10, we expect him to lead us to victory with goals/assists...and when he fails to deliver, we call him shite.

As for Mikel, we don't expect him to be anything more than a squad filler and as a result, when he does okay, fans say "he does a job"

Fair enough and it's one way to see it.

I for one believe that it's very difficult to get the most of the players when they have no competition. It can be done, but doesn't last.

Is Diego Costa afraid of losing his position? Is Matic? Jose played Matic in every freaking game since he signed him.

Then people, sometimes the same ones, complain that the young don't play. Well Mikel 28/29 yo needs minutes to, so he will play ahead of RLC and others.

Logically, this whole thing makes little sense in my mind... but I guess controversy is good for TC.

@LDN Blue posted Mikel's stats on defending in his thread a week ago or so - whether he "does the job" is also debatable.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

@LDN Blue posted Mikel's stats one defending in his thread a week ago or so - whether he "does the job" is also debatable.

Well if he consistently did a job, he'd probably continue doing that job - I mean I'm under no illusion here, he should've really been sold a long time ago. For his own career as well, no reason he couldn't have become that CAM he was meant to be.

For some reason, managers seem to love him

[robsblubot 3,531]

Well if he consistently did a job, he'd probably continue doing that job - I mean I'm under no illusion here, he should've really been sold a long time ago. For his own career as well, no reason he couldn't have become that CAM he was meant to be.

For some reason, managers seem to love him

More like coaching staff loves him, but not so much the managers. Mikel has never played less than under Jose.

Even considering AFCON weaker opposition, Mikel does play better for Nigeria and it is also because he doesn't play as a DM.

I have watched many DMs in my life and the best ones were like Roy Keane. They may be more technically gifted, like Viera, or less, like Keane, but they all bust their balls tracking back and joining the defense when the play was past them. Mikel just does not do that. He seems to be a very specialized player with few virtues, which means he needs a team that play to his strengths - like Nigeria does.

And TBH he's more praised here than by Nigeria fans - who after all are used to the likes of Okocha leading their side. Their expectations for their #10 were/are higher I guess.

Back to Oscar, maybe the point is that I've never seen him as a #10 and neither do Chelsea - since he wears #8.

I see him as a more industrious player who can contribute playing alongside more creative/attacking minded ones... like Hazard or KDB.

That doesn't excuse his long bad patches though, so again, I am not disagreeing that at this time Oscar may be insufficient, but rather that he may also get unfairly criticized for a role that isn't really his.

[Jase 43,479]

Oscar...

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Before he took the penalty I was thinking how the fuck is Oscar our first choice taker? Because if Oscar, of all people at club has biggest confidence and composure then we are royaly fucked.

Where are the days when we had Lamps and Drogba and Ballack and other players who actualy gave a fuck.

[Parky 739]

Before he took the penalty I was thinking how the fuck is Oscar our first choice taker? Because if Oscar, of all people at club has biggest confidence and composure then we are royaly fucked.

Where are the days when we had Lamps and Drogba and Ballack and other players who actualy gave a fuck.

Lampard, Drogba and Ballack had class, mental strength and footballing brains, like eating a good solid Sunday roast. Oscar on the other hand is like Mcdonald's just junk food, a quick fix but you regret it 20 minutes later..

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Back to Oscar, maybe the point is that I've never seen him as a #10 and neither do Chelsea - since he wears #8.

I see him as a more industrious player who can contribute playing alongside more creative/attacking minded ones... like Hazard or KDB.

That doesn't excuse his long bad patches though, so again, I am not disagreeing that at this time Oscar may be insufficient, but rather that he may also get unfairly criticized for a role that isn't really his.

You'd ask Oscar what player he is and what role suits him most and he'd tell you that he's a number 10 and likes to play a lot with the ball, quick passes, flicks etc. He said that in his interviews. His body language and posture also suggests that. First time in Brazil he straightaway took no.10 shirt and he's Brazilian ffs, they like to play football there IIRC.

He simply HAS TO play like he did against Sunderland. We don't have many world-class players to give up creativity from any of our attacking player.

I said this, when he plays like against Sunderland, he's the player who is one of the prettiest to watch in my eyes but performance like yesterday are the ones that get me mad. I don't remember being that enraged over one particular player for a long time.

There's no two ways about, no role thing, no nothing, he played very poorly on Saturday.

[Kieran. 6,317]

I beat my brother's ass yesterday for saying "he's obviously going to make it" while we were watching the match. Fucking jinx.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I beat my brother's ass yesterday for saying "he's obviously going to make it" while we were watching the match. Fucking jinx.

I was watching it with my dad, well more like he just happened to be in the room and not really watching. When Oscar stepped up, I told him "Watch how's he's going to miss this penalty" to which he replied "Do they not need to play extra time before it goes to penalties?"

[DDA 9,691]

Oscar doesn't deserve the shit he is getting for missing that pen. He slipped for fuck sake! Shit happens.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Oscar doesn't deserve the shit he is getting for missing that pen. He slipped for fuck sake! Shit happens.

He had an awful game as well.

[robsblubot 3,531]

You'd ask Oscar what player he is and what role suits him most and he'd tell you that he's a number 10 and likes to play a lot with the ball, quick passes, flicks etc. He said that in his interviews. His body language and posture also suggests that. First time in Brazil he straightaway took no.10 shirt and he's Brazilian ffs, they like to play football there IIRC.

He simply HAS TO play like he did against Sunderland. We don't have many world-class players to give up creativity from any of our attacking player.

I said this, when he plays like against Sunderland, he's the player who is one of the prettiest to watch in my eyes but performance like yesterday are the ones that get me mad. I don't remember being that enraged over one particular player for a long time.

There's no two ways about, no role thing, no nothing, he played very poorly on Saturday.

Agreed that he has to play like he did against Sunderland far more often and in my mind that's still not a creative #10 but more on an industrious one - say Willian.

Now asking what a player wants to do means very little. The #10 doesn't have a definition as a role. Even famous #10s of the past have had different characteristics. Maradona would have been more of a CM these days while Pele a striker. Zidane was pretty much a CM like Modric is and also a #10.

Hazard told Jose he plays best centralized. He was/is wrong. His style of play belongs in the wings.