Oscar

[Clockwork 1,794]

does anyone remember when jose had said that oscar will have a hazardesque development in his game. :lol: :lol: :lol:

i still cant believe jose actually thought that this player is better than mata or KDB. damn!!! that should have been the first sign of the downfall.

You think if the situation was reversed, Mata or KDB would have done better at the moment?

[didierforever 7,349]

You think if the situation was reversed, Mata or KDB would have done better at the moment?

definitely.

11-12/12-13 was a team which looked defensively vulnerable not as much as today's but vulnerable. in attack, mata was our main guy. the guy literally carried us for 2 years. he was the focal point of everything we did. so i dont have a shred of doubt that with mata we would not even have been in THIS situation.

as for kdb, he is 10 times the player oscar is. so yes.

[robsblubot 3,579]

does anyone remember when jose had said that oscar will have a hazardesque development in his game. :lol: :lol: :lol:

i still cant believe jose actually thought that this player is better than mata or KDB. damn!!! that should have been the first sign of the downfall.

Looking at hazards play this season I'd have to say Jose was spot on.

[Reddish-Blue 2,396]

You think if the situation was reversed, Mata or KDB would have done better at the moment?

I don't know about Mata...but I would take KDB over Oscar anyday.

As Gary Neville was saying in the discussion about Chelsea on Skysports, certain players that have killer, selfish mentality, they want to win and they want to live up to their potential...that's what I see in KDB's performances for Wolfsburg and recently for Man City.

I don't see that mentality in Oscar, he hasn't really 'improved' on anything since his first season at Chelsea.

[Fulham Broadway 16,975]

Thing is, with players most of the time they are as good as their last game.

Frank Lampard senior drilled it into his son, '' if you have a average/crap match, always have a shot at the end of the game, even if it doesnt fly in it'll stay in the fans memory''.

With Oscar, how people would be singing his praises if that audacious effort had been six inches higher on Saturday...probably would have ended in a different result as well

[Clockwork 1,794]

definitely.

11-12/12-13 was a team which looked defensively vulnerable not as much as today's but vulnerable. in attack, mata was our main guy. the guy literally carried us for 2 years. he was the focal point of everything we did. so i dont have a shred of doubt that with mata we would not even have been in THIS situation.

as for kdb, he is 10 times the player oscar is. so yes.

Tell me why do you think Mata or KDB would have been unaffected and made a difference while almost every player is underperforming and look like a shadow of themselves?

Tell me how would they they helped in conceding less goal, since that is our biggest problem?

How certain are that Mou would even start them and get playing time?

[Clockwork 1,794]

I don't know about Mata...but I would take KDB over Oscar anyday.

As Gary Neville was saying in the discussion about Chelsea on Skysports, certain players that have killer, selfish mentality, they want to win and they want to live up to their potential...that's what I see in KDB's performances for Wolfsburg and recently for Man City.

I don't see that mentality in Oscar, he hasn't really 'improved' on anything since his first season at Chelsea.

Success can come in many different personality. There is no one single personality for success. Look at the top footballers in the world, they all differ.

I can find other faults in Oscar, this isn't one. You prefer KDB personality that is fine.

[didierforever 7,349]

Tell me why do you think Mata or KDB would have been unaffected and made a difference while almost every player is underperforming and look like a shadow of themselves?

Tell me how would they they helped in conceding less goal, since that is our biggest problem?

How certain are that Mou would even start them and get playing time?

jose has started cesc before the pool game in every game. why? creativity. even a defensive manager like jose knows that we need a creative outlet.

ball control - mata >>>>>>>>>> cesc, oscar

controlling the temp of the match - mata >>>>>>>>>>>>>. cesc,oscar

creating chances/assisting/goalscoring - mata >>>>>>>>. cesc, oscar.

our problem is that players like costa , oscar and cesc cant hold on to the ball if there life depended on it. we have no attacks, we have no creativity in our front 4, and most importantly, we have no goal scoring threat.

our biggest problem is not conceding goals, thats just what happens when you have no one to run the midfield.

especially with mata, we could have looked like a different team.

[Oscar 441]

jose has started cesc before the pool game in every game. why? creativity. even a defensive manager like jose knows that we need a creative outlet.

ball control - mata >>>>>>>>>> cesc, oscar

controlling the temp of the match - mata >>>>>>>>>>>>>. cesc,oscar

creating chances/assisting/goalscoring - mata >>>>>>>>. cesc, oscar.

our problem is that players like costa , oscar and cesc cant hold on to the ball if there life depended on it. we have no attacks, we have no creativity in our front 4, and most importantly, we have no goal scoring threat.

our biggest problem is not conceding goals, thats just what happens when you have no one to run the midfield.

especially with mata, we could have looked like a different team.

Ball control definitely mata.

Controlling the match is definitely not mata... Both cesc and oscar are better by a wide margin.

Creating chances is cesc, mata than oscar.

With Mata, both matic and cesc would of been exposed more as would of the whole backline. LVG plays mata on the wings, because like Jose, he views mata as a weak player. This season, United plays ultraconservative football, which is why guys like Smalling is getting recognition as the best cb in the league... If you think we play like shit, you haven't seen United games...

[didierforever 7,349]

Ball control definitely mata.

Controlling the match is definitely not mata... Both cesc and oscar are better by a wide margin.

Creating chances is cesc, mata than oscar.

With Mata, both matic and cesc would of been exposed more as would of the whole backline. LVG plays mata on the wings, because like Jose, he views mata as a weak player. This season, United plays ultraconservative football, which is why guys like Smalling is getting recognition as the best cb in the league... If you think we play like shit, you haven't seen United games...

if we had mata, cesc would not have been brought. we would have had a real, proper CM. someone like rakitic/schneiderlein.

LVG plays mata on the wing cos they have rooney. and mata has been quite successful there.

creating chances is cesc? really? when was the last time he created anything? i am sorry, but this myth about cesc is too much for me to handle.

lets not even talk about oscar when talking about controlling the match. the only time cesc can control the game is when he is given ample time and space on the ball. first signs of pressing and cesc is as good at controlling the game as zouma would be.

[Spike 12,049]

Dictating the temp of a match isn't something I'd ever attribute to Juan Mata.

[Oscar 441]

if we had mata, cesc would not have been brought. we would have had a real, proper CM. someone like rakitic/schneiderlein.

LVG plays mata on the wing cos they have rooney. and mata has been quite successful there.

creating chances is cesc? really? when was the last time he created anything? i am sorry, but this myth about cesc is too much for me to handle.

lets not even talk about oscar when talking about controlling the match. the only time cesc can control the game is when he is given ample time and space on the ball. first signs of pressing and cesc is as good at controlling the game as zouma would be.

Rakitic went to barcelona even when xavi was there and was willing to play a different role. Highly doubt, he would of came here....

Morgan been dropped a few times by LVG already this season... Top of my head, he was dropped for both arsenal and liverpool...

Mata has not been consistent at all. He's been better than rooney and depay though, but marital has been the best out of the 4.

Your personal hate doesn't change the fact that cesc creates chances. Due to his position, cesc can definitely create more than mata unless mata. Set peices, longball, through balls, flicks, etc.

Mata never control matches, both Cesc and OScar did.

[Oscar 441]

Dictating the temp of a match isn't something I'd ever attribute to Juan Mata.

Yea, it's very weird when someone says he actually dictates tempo, which is the complete opposite of Juan Mata.

[didierforever 7,349]

Rakitic went to barcelona even when xavi was there and was willing to play a different role. Highly doubt, he would of came here....

Morgan been dropped a few times by LVG already this season... Top of my head, he was dropped for both arsenal and liverpool...

Mata has not been consistent at all. He's been better than rooney and depay though, but marital has been the best out of the 4.

Your personal hate doesn't change the fact that cesc creates chances. Due to his position, cesc can definitely create more than mata unless mata. Set peices, longball, through balls, flicks, etc.

Mata never control matches, both Cesc and OScar did.

rakitic went to barca as a cesc replacement if i remember correctly.

cesc was just dropped for the pool game. morgan been dropped for those games means nothing. we have seen how he plays in the last 2 years and he is a much better player than cesc as a CM.

lets not even talk about consistency when comparing any X, y, Z player with either of cesc or oscar. yes, martial has been the best of the 4 but mata has been quite good too and that too as a RW. also, we as chelsea fans are testament to exactly how good mata can be through the center.

my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that for the last 11 months now, cesc has been shit. my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that cesc , a CM, has to be given defensive protection from a CAM. as for creating, again, when? wjere? am i watching the same chelsea matches you are for the last 11 months?

[lucio 5,418]

i've seen mata "dictating" a little more , now he is at utd, coming deep and spraying the ball around the OT pitch. but i haven't watched him much

[Oscar 441]

rakitic went to barca as a cesc replacement if i remember correctly.

cesc was just dropped for the pool game. morgan been dropped for those games means nothing. we have seen how he plays in the last 2 years and he is a much better player than cesc as a CM.

lets not even talk about consistency when comparing any X, y, Z player with either of cesc or oscar. yes, martial has been the best of the 4 but mata has been quite good too and that too as a RW. also, we as chelsea fans are testament to exactly how good mata can be through the center.

my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that for the last 11 months now, cesc has been shit. my personal hate has nothing to do with the fact that cesc , a CM, has to be given defensive protection from a CAM. as for creating, again, when? wjere? am i watching the same chelsea matches you are for the last 11 months?

Man United have carrick, herrera, bastian and morgan. All that hype in their cms, yet, they are so ultraconservative as a team. Read on redcafe, how boring united fans think they play. Morgan played well at southampton. So did our own ryan betrand. So, did llalana, lovren and lambert. At United, he has already been dropped in 2 big games and their so called super midfield have been very underwhelming.

Football has changed now in terms of positions. Cesc has been bad since the new year, but he still create chances even though he is getting cut through easily. Cesc was never a fast guy and never a good defensive cm ever. You cannot expect him to be that.

Way I see it if JT went to barcelona, he would of failed hard under their tactics. However, he stay in England in a team that matched his skillset.

[didierforever 7,349]

Man United have carrick, herrera, bastian and morgan. All that hype in their cms, yet, they are so ultraconservative as a team. Read on redcafe, how boring united fans think they play. Morgan played well at southampton. So did our own ryan betrand. So, did llalana, lovren and lambert. At United, he has already been dropped in 2 big games and their so called super midfield have been very underwhelming.

Football has changed now in terms of positions. Cesc has been bad since the new year, but he still create chances even though he is getting cut through easily. Cesc was never a fast guy and never a good defensive cm ever. You cannot expect him to be that.

Way I see it if JT went to barcelona, he would of failed hard under their tactics. However, he stay in England in a team that matched his skillset.

u could have done the same on TC last year, we ended up winning the league.

are we talking about the same bertrand who every chelsea fan is currently pining for?

again, being dropped for 2 games means nothing. also, united have 4 proper attackers. we play oscar mainly for the purpose of being a "defensive" CAM and the last season, it looked like we played willian simply because he had the workrate to "cover" for iva. cesc and hazard are the only 2 players you can easily say that had the most freedom in this team. a situation totally unlike of morgan's.

also, morgan played 90 minutes against spurs, soton, everton, man city. why is that not being discussed.

807 minutes in 11 PL games is hardly a thing to be mocked at.

again, what chances are you talking about?

exactly, football has changed a lot. there is no place in football, specially for a team like chelsea, to have cesc playing as a CM. someone who is not just slow (carrick is slow), but has no defensive sense, wont put in a shift for his team.

fair enough, JT would not have been successful at barca, cos of their tactics. and cesc was never going to be successful at chelsea and that too under jose. go to the cesc thread and just this morning i posted expressing my surprise again about jose actually buying cesc (for the 100th time). but come to think of it, for which team was cesc successful? barca - hell no, arsenal - LOL. hardly a surprise that where ever he goes, the teams have to deal with the massive baggage that comes with him.

[didierforever 7,349]

should we have another pre-season or something for him?

:lol: