🇧🇷 Oscar

[Korea 734]

Well, stars get away with more in every sport. You can fine them, suspend them, both, I don't care but it's a problem that is actually very easy to stop if people really wanted to.

Suspend them and you lose a ton of money...

No one would do that... Its one thing to fine players so they lose their money, but its another thing to suspend them and the league/sponsors lose their own money.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Hazard really doesn't dive. Don't think you can compare what Oscar did to what Hazard does. Hazard is just smart when it comes to shielding the ball and a lot of the times he's just a fraction of a second quicker on the ball then the defender.

Oscar really dived when there was no need to but i agree with you that it's really not that big of a deal. He dived, he got a yellow card, end off. See no reason to discuss this any further.

For me, "being smart when it comes to shielding the ball" is as unsporting as diving is, but unfortunately both things are part of the game now. When I labelled Hazard a diver, I don't mean like Ashley Young, I mean he goes down under minimal contact quite frequently, which is what Ossie did yesterday. Which is why I'm not making a big deal of it.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Hazard's no diver at all. With his speed of execution he goes down with the slightest of touches. That's how gravity works. I realise it often looks as if he's diving, (the referees seem to have agreed unanimously not to award penalties when Hazard falls down in the box), but I challenge you to find any blatant Hazard dive. You'll maybe find 1 or 2 over a season and a half.

See my last post. Diver was a poor choice of words on my part.

[Johnny Kills 164]

Deserves to be slapped and hugged at the same time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=k21-XUyMOxI#t=67

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Hazard really doesn't dive. Don't think you can compare what Oscar did to what Hazard does. Hazard is just smart when it comes to shielding the ball and a lot of the times he's just a fraction of a second quicker on the ball then the defender.

Oscar really dived when there was no need to but i agree with you that it's really not that big of a deal. He dived, he got a yellow card, end off. See no reason to discuss this any further.

For me, "being smart when it comes to shielding the ball" is as unsporting as diving is, but unfortunately both things are part of the game now. When I labelled Hazard a diver, I don't mean like Ashley Young, I mean he goes down under minimal contact quite frequently, which is what Ossie did yesterday. Which is why I'm not making a big deal of it.

Really? Wow. You think what Hazard does by being clever with the ball and shielding it is unsporting? Makes no sense to me sorry.

Diving though is cheating straight up. What Oscar did isn't even your run of the mill dive, he did it to get a player sent off which imo is the worst form of cheating. Diving to get a pen is bad enough but to get someone sent off and suspended is the absolute worst form of cheating.

Like Rmpr said though, he'll learn from this for sure.

[Styles 9,790]

The idea that Hazard is a diver is laughable. It's almost blaming the player for having good close control and dribbling skills and using them to his advantage. Hazard is far from a diver.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

See my last post. Diver was a poor choice of words on my part.

Seems no-one can read on here.

[Barbara 15,149]

Hazard's no diver at all. With his speed of execution he goes down with the slightest of touches. That's how gravity works. I realise it often looks as if he's diving, (the referees seem to have agreed unanimously not to award penalties when Hazard falls down in the box), but I challenge you to find any blatant Hazard dive. You'll maybe find 1 or 2 over a season and a half.

I've said it a few times, I think Eden falls too often (and he's been falling way less lately) because his whole life he's been used to that kind of contact being called a foul by the referee. It's an adaptation issue, he isn't still used to the physicality of the league, especially with someone with his style. He never ever looked like a diver imo, just a guy who expects minor physical contact to be a foul. Reprogramming your brain and body requires time...

I don't think we currently have divers in the team and Oscar tried to force a penalty and maybe even a red card when he should have tried to score and done it with fair play. I don't think Eden's ever did that with us. But he did fall many times in the box and outside the box, but he was honestly expecting the amount of contact to be enough to be a foul, as it is in France and I'm positive in Belgium too. I know no other league that allows physical contact as English (one of the reasons why I love it more than the others)

[Rmpr 8,977]

I really think there should be retroactive punishment for divers who aren't caught. A yellow in the game is fine, but lots of times, the referee doesn't see it. It's an awful part of football and I think more needs to be done to get rid of it. If the punishments were severe enough, you'd start to see it stop completely.

I agree, but what can we do? I mean, referees are humans and they will continue to make mistakes no matter how good they become. And fining players is useless, they will much prefer to get a penalty then to not lose 100k or whatever.

If we had a "review" system, I think the game as a whole (specially the cheating part of it) would get a lot better!

One can dream...

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I've said it a few times, I think Eden falls too often (and he's been falling way less lately) because his whole life he's been used to that kind of contact being called a foul by the referee. It's an adaptation issue, he isn't still used to the physicality of the league, especially with someone with his style. He never ever looked like a diver imo, just a guy who expects minor physical contact to be a foul. Reprogramming your brain and body requires time...

I don't think we currently have divers in the team and Oscar tried to force a penalty and maybe even a red card when he should have tried to score and done it with fair play. I don't think Eden's ever did that with us. But he did fall many times in the box and outside the box, but he was honestly expecting the amount of contact to be enough to be a foul, as it is in France and I'm positive in Belgium too. I know no other league that allows physical contact as English (one of the reasons why I love it more than the others)

THANK YOU BARBARA! This is exactly what I mean. Thank you for explaining, you did a far better job than I did in translating a thought in my head into words in this ridiculous language of ours!

[Stingray 9,441]

I've said it a few times, I think Eden falls too often (and he's been falling way less lately) because his whole life he's been used to that kind of contact being called a foul by the referee. It's an adaptation issue, he isn't still used to the physicality of the league, especially with someone with his style. He never ever looked like a diver imo, just a guy who expects minor physical contact to be a foul. Reprogramming your brain and body requires time...

I don't think we currently have divers in the team and Oscar tried to force a penalty and maybe even a red card when he should have tried to score and done it with fair play. I don't think Eden's ever did that with us. But he did fall many times in the box and outside the box, but he was honestly expecting the amount of contact to be enough to be a foul, as it is in France and I'm positive in Belgium too. I know no other league that allows physical contact as English (one of the reasons why I love it more than the others)

Good call, B. Also, I think and hope Hazard wil learn, Just look at Schurrle in the interview, saying the forcefullnes, hardness, Intensity of the EPL is just the thing people need to adapt to.

They sometimes look a bit wimpsy now, but if the intention is ok: no problem.

[Jase 43,479]

I think it's only really the Mata sympathisers that are making a big deal out of this. He shouldn't have dived in the way he did. Inexplicable really, since all he had to do was knock it past the keeper and tap it into an empty net. We won in the end, no big deal. Makes me laugh how people can't abide Oscar diving for this penalty, but it's fine for the likes of Drogba in the past, and Hazard nowadays, to win free-kicks after going down with near enough no contact.

Nothing to do with Mata and yet again, he's being brought into the equation here for no reason and people were wondering why Mata and Oscar are always mentioned as a comparison. If we want to talk about people making a big deal out of Oscar's dive yesterday, think the Mata's incident is being blown out of proportion even more than this. Look through the last few pages of this thread and Mata's one and you can see the obvious-ness and huge difference in the reaction or over-reaction in this case in both of the threads.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I've said it a few times, I think Eden falls too often (and he's been falling way less lately) because his whole life he's been used to that kind of contact being called a foul by the referee. It's an adaptation issue, he isn't still used to the physicality of the league, especially with someone with his style. He never ever looked like a diver imo, just a guy who expects minor physical contact to be a foul. Reprogramming your brain and body requires time...

I don't think we currently have divers in the team and Oscar tried to force a penalty and maybe even a red card when he should have tried to score and done it with fair play. I don't think Eden's ever did that with us. But he did fall many times in the box and outside the box, but he was honestly expecting the amount of contact to be enough to be a foul, as it is in France and I'm positive in Belgium too. I know no other league that allows physical contact as English (one of the reasons why I love it more than the others)

Agreed!

It's even worse for Oscar though, because most (very few exceptions) refs in the Brazilian league show cards far too easily for any physical contact.

So, imagine that a dive in the box might not only give you the penalty but also, very likely, a red will be shown to the opponent. Diving is literally a win-win situation in certain leagues.

Just retroactively suspend them - a yellow for any blatant dive and problem solved.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think it's only really the Mata sympathisers that are making a big deal out of this. He shouldn't have dived in the way he did. Inexplicable really, since all he had to do was knock it past the keeper and tap it into an empty net. We won in the end, no big deal. Makes me laugh how people can't abide Oscar diving for this penalty, but it's fine for the likes of Drogba in the past, and Hazard nowadays, to win free-kicks after going down with near enough no contact.

I'm sorry, but what in the world does Mata have to do with Oscar's dive? Unless you're saying that Oscar's dive is Mata's fault as well!

Oscar didn't even come on for Mata, he came on for Andre and Willian came on for Juan who was playing on the right. So, if anything, it's Schurrle's fault

Also, it's been covered in this thread about Hazard diving and I kinda agree with you that he goes down too much at times, but if I had to choose a diver from our current squad it won't be Eden; it'll Azpi and to a lesser extent Torres (Iva a few times as well which is weird since he's such a mountain of man). It's not that Azpi goes down without contact, but he often seems to try and exaggerate any foul on him which is the same as diving in my book.

[BeyondTheShed 3]

Found a good article about him....

Oscar: Mourinho’s winning gamble.

Posted on January 2, 2014

This player has been bashed by many, and accused of being overrated and should be benched by Mata at Chelsea and Coutinho at Brazil. He is never mentioned among the world’s finest talents, everyone always opts for other names.

Let’s now take a moment to appreciate the things that go unnoticed about Oscar!

A player who has established himself as a starter for 2 great teams like Chelsea and Brazil, from his first year at Europe and his first season at international level. He is a favorite for 2 great managers like Scolari and José Mourinho. The latter described him as his team’s best player this season. Coincidence?

How many players can cover the pitch, tackle, win the ball back, and be the hard workers that Oscar is? Do you even notice that he always does well in big games? For example last year in UCL, or Europa League, always scoring. Against Spain last summer, Bayern in UEFA Super, or even against Liverpool last week.

Look what the teams where he is a starter at and was given confidence have reached: Brazil have won the Confederations Cup, and Chelsea are only 2 points off the EPL, having already topped their UCL group. Compare that to how Chelsea finished last season where Oscar wasn’t the main man, was still new and hadn’t established himself, and you’ll see that Mata’s absence hasn’t turned out to be a negative thing at all for Chelsea. The team is in fact doing very well, and Willian, Oscar, Hazard were near flawless in recent games.

In fact, when Mata was scoring goals for fun, the effect on Chelsea was very small compared to this season. His side was 14 points away from Premier League leaders at this point.

For the many who questioned Oscar’s ability to hold the number 10 role at Chelsea, there is no statistical evidence on that, was it for the team or individually.

Oscar in EPL: 13 starts, 6 goals, 2 assists.
Mata in EPL: 11 starts, 0 goals, 2 assists.

Chelsea at this point last season: 14 points off top UCL group stage exit.
Chelsea at this point this season: 2 points off top, UCL round of 16 (ongoing).

Moreover, it’s true that Oscar isn’t known to be a top goal scorer, but on the other hand, there is this unbelievable stat, whereas Oscar who came off the bench against Southampton in the last game, made 5 tackles, most in a game. Mata would need 2 or 3 games to make 5 tackles.

He is no doubt a great player, but his work cannot be compared to Oscar, who is a machine, covers all pitch and is more of an all around player.

Let’s not forget that Oscar is more than 3 years younger than Juan, which also means that as time passes, it’s only normal that Oscar develops.

Oscar scored 4 goals in 34 EPL appearances last season. He has scored 6 in 18 appearances so far, and we’re only half way. And that is just a small example.

Although, everyone who watches this player knows that goals and assists are the last thing that make him the great talent he is. He is a type of playmakers who can be man of the match without getting involved in any goals. You sometimes feel that he’d almost play as a center back, if he was a bit taller, taking in consideration his defensive stats.

Skills alone are not enough in football. You need to have tactical awareness and discipline. You need to cover the whole pitch and not a certain area.

If you look at the game against Liverpool, one of the turning points was Mourinho’s lineup. Chelsea applied high pressure on Liverpool’s defensive line, preventing them from a proper build up play, and causing them to make many wrong passes or get dispossessed. Hazard, Oscar and Willian, had no doubt played a big part in this tactical approach by the Portuguese manager.

Compare that to Liverpool’s forwards, who did not apply the same pressure on Chelsea’s defenders, which gave them more freedom.

Saying that Mourinho only plays Oscar because he hates Spain, is not a very convincing argument. Whereas that very same manager was accused last year of hating Brazilians themselves, for benching a fat Marcelo and an injured Kakà. Even more, José prefers Spanish international Azpilicueta over Ashley Cole at times, and Fernando Torres over Eto’o. But that argument could be even less valid, when you reckon that Oscar has only started 2 more games than Juan in EPL.

Mata didn’t complete 90 minutes in most of them? Well, if he was so convincing (with 0 goals, 2 assists in 11 starts, for a player who lacks work rate), then I don’t think Mourinho would have shortened his playing time.

For example, I can’t really blame Mourinho for subbing Schurrle and Mata out, for Willian and Oscar against Southampton. The positive effect was clear, and that’s a fact. The Brazilian duo changed the game for him. And it has happened in other times as well, where Mata failed to convince, and his substitute did better.

Juan is definitely one of the best players, and he has proven his quality in the past. But bashing Oscar just because he took his place, is never a good way to get him back into the starting lineup. Only his on the pitch performances can do so, something he failed to do in the last game. Whereas, his manager confirmed that Chelsea lacked intensity and weren’t very convincing, until Willian and Oscar “changed the game”, as he added.

As for Willian, there is no doubt that he will provide more quality to this already decent Chelsea side. With more time, and more games, he has all what it takes to break into Brazil’s lineup at World Cup.

And Willian himself, is an example that playing time is never a restriction from showing your quality. He has only started 6 league games, that’s 5 less than Mata.

Credit: http://brazilstats.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/oscar-mourinhos-winning-gamble/

Twitter @BrazilStats

[Barbara 15,149]

Oscar didn't even come on for Mata, he came on for Andre and Willian came on for Juan who was playing on the right. So, if anything, it's Schurrle's fault

Are you sure?

poor André got a chair seat smashed on his arm lol

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Are you sure?

poor André got a chair seat smashed on his arm lol

I meant for the roles on the pitch. Willian played on the right where Mata was and Oscar took Hazard's place down the middle with Eden moving to Schurrle's place on the left.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I'm sorry, but what in the world does Mata have to do with Oscar's dive? Unless you're saying that Oscar's dive is Mata's fault as well!

Oscar didn't even come on for Mata, he came on for Andre and Willian came on for Juan who was playing on the right. So, if anything, it's Schurrle's fault

Also, it's been covered in this thread about Hazard diving and I kinda agree with you that he goes down too much at times, but if I had to choose a diver from our current squad it won't be Eden; it'll Azpi and to a lesser extent Torres (Iva a few times as well which is weird since he's such a mountain of man). It's not that Azpi goes down without contact, but he often seems to try and exaggerate any foul on him which is the same as diving in my book.

Mata sympathisers trying to cover up Juan's little spat by making a bigger deal than is necessary over Oscar's dive. He's been told off for it, now time to move on.

[Jase 43,479]

Mata sympathisers trying to cover up Juan's little spat by making a bigger deal than is necessary over Oscar's dive. He's been told off for it, now time to move on.

But the funny thing is Mourinho said nothing of Mata's reaction and that he celebrated and was happy with the team after the game and yet people have been making a meal out of it since then...

[Shakez 755]

The dive aside, he was involved in everything that was good attacking wise. Hopes he keeps it up, although im sure he will.