Thorgan Hazard

[Myself 793]

Tell that to Bayern Munich and the German NT......

Do you have a relevant point to make? Because it seems you're only making provocations and nothing that actually adds to the discussion.

I was being sarcastic.

[Stingray 9,441]

Here comes the defence force.

Not at all, i just know your perpetually returning agenda. Btw: Did you see me defending him somewhere?

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Yes he's not a box to box he's a playing making AM.

As for being weak as Mata I don't know if I agree with that characterization. He's built similarly to Oscar.

Too early to tell if he'll get a shot at Chelsea. Most people thought he was a thrown in to Eden's deal and here we are 2+ years later and he's won a Belgian golden boot and is a squad player pushing more time on a team that's #2 in the Bundesliga.

Very few players explode on the scene at such an early age like Eden. So for the remaining 99.7% it takes time.

Yeah, I agree with you. Eden is a phenomenon, a prodigiously gifted player that was always destined for greatness, same thing with Neymar and the rest of their ilk etc. It would be unfair to judge other players on the same progression scale.

I'm not saying he isn't talented I just don't think he's particularly agile, skilled (dribbling) or strong to compensate for his small frame. He wouldn't be in competition for a starting spot with Traore, Hermann, Hahn, Raffael and Johnson if that wasn't the case. The level of competition he would be facing at Chelsea is far greater than that group.

Keep in mind this is based on about 3 games I've seen so far.The few Gladbach fans I know think he's a superstar in the making that will/could be eventually be worth as much as £20m-£25m.

[TheOneChan95 225]

I think he has a chance, but he won't have it early. We should just let him develop at his own pace. From what I see, he is improving steadily and isn't the same type as Eden with explosiveness as one of his main assets. He reminds me more of Oscar. Maybe it's just me but I also think I see more desire in him to affect the play in the team. I don't think he will shy away from responsibility if given it.

[Barbara 15,149]

Tell that to Bayern Munich and the German NT......

I was being sarcastic.

And I'm not... Bundesliga is a one-team league now that Dortmund has ups and downs. Every season there's a team from the rest that rises a bit higher, such as Leverkursen did last year. The German team has nothing to do with the quality of their league, as most of the players are at Bayern, there are some abroad and some at Dortmund. It's a very unbalanced, boring, dull league imo.

It doesn't mean good players couldn't come from the other teams, or that Hazard isn't good enough, I'm not talking about any of this, but as a league, Bundesliga is poor imo.

[chelseafc9010 224]

Well if people like Salah and Moses can get chances here surely Thorgan deserves one? Would just be so cool to see two brothers playing together on each wing.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And I'm not... Bundesliga is a one-team league now that Dortmund has ups and downs. Every season there's a team from the rest that rises a bit higher, such as Leverkursen did last year. The German team has nothing to do with the quality of their league, as most of the players are at Bayern, there are some abroad and some at Dortmund. It's a very unbalanced, boring, dull league imo.

It doesn't mean good players couldn't come from the other teams, or that Hazard isn't good enough, I'm not talking about any of this, but as a league, Bundesliga is poor imo.

I'd agree that the Bundes Liga is rather poor, but it's not that black or white, imo. The bottom teams are frankly terrible. But there are good teams like Gladbach and Wolfsburg for example. I think Gladbach would easily be be challenging for top 4 here in the PL for example. Not at all far behind us in terms of quality.

[Barbara 15,149]

I'd agree that the Bundes Liga is rather poor, but it's not that black or white, imo. The bottom teams are frankly terrible. But there are good teams like Gladbach and Wolfsburg for example. I think Gladbach would easily be be challenging for top 4 here in the PL for example. Not at all far behind us in terms of quality.

I think it's too early in the season for you to make such an assessment...

And if they're not far behind us in terms of quality so I suppose we're way behind Bayern then? I think you've overrating them a tad here. Or underrating us. Chelsea is currently one of the hardest sides to play against in the continent. I'm not saying there aren't teams better than us, but certainly hard to be more competitive and adaptive. We'll talk again about Borussia M. in a couple of months.

[Term-X 7,891]

He's a Chelsea player only by technicality anyway, Eden demanded Thorgan be part of the transfer because of concerns over his contract situation. By bringing Thorgan here, it secures his future and actually raises his profile.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I think it's too early in the season for you to make such an assessment...

And if they're not far behind us in terms of quality so I suppose we're way behind Bayern then? I think you've overrating them a tad here. Or underrating us. Chelsea is currently one of the hardest sides to play against in the continent. I'm not saying there aren't teams better than us, but certainly hard to be more competitive and adaptive. We'll talk again about Borussia M. in a couple of months.

I think you put that exactly right: "Chelsea is currently one of the hardest sides to play against in the continent." But that's not what I'm talking about at all, I'm talking about quality. City have more quality than us but we are favorites for the tittle and have been so since day one. That's because there are a lot more factors involved than quality like the manager, experience, 'balls' as Jose would say...etc.

Gladbach play some really high quality football at times and that's because they have quality players. Like I said in the post on the previous page they lack a killer instinct and the ability to deal with teams defending in numbers, but their quality on the ball and especially the movement of their players is that of a top team.

The reason I'm talking about quality alone and not the general ability of a team to beat another team is because we are talking about the ability of Thorgan to make the step up to a team like Chelsea and I think that that depends mostly on the quality in the team he was in than the other factors. If he can get into Gladbach, then he's not very far away from being able to get into Chelsea.

[iseah100 5,612]

Gladbach not far behind in quality? Uhhh, they're actually really really really far off.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Gladbach not far behind in quality? Uhhh, they're actually really really really far off.

How many matches of theirs did you watch this season?

[iseah100 5,612]

How many matches of theirs did you watch this season?

None. I haven't seen any Lyon games either though, who are 3rd in Ligue 1, and I know they don't have as much quality as Chelsea.

They're a good team, I'm sure, but they don't have the quality Chelsea have. Nowhere near. Only 3 or 4 teams match us in that aspect.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

None. I haven't seen any Lyon games either though, who are 3rd in Ligue 1, and I know they don't have as much quality as Chelsea.

They're a good team, I'm sure, but they don't have the quality Chelsea have. Nowhere near. Only 3 or 4 teams match us in that aspect.

No, you don't "know". Unless you have seen them then you only "think". That is by the very definition of knowledge. With Lyon, I haven't seen them either, and I don't think they have as much quality as us either, and we are likely right based on many factors, but we do not know unless we actually see them at least a few times.

Watch a few of their matches before making assertions. I would suggest the match where they out-played Bayern last weekend where it took a Neuer "Bundes Liga player of the week" performance to get Bayern a 0-0 draw.

[iseah100 5,612]

No, you don't "know". Unless you have seen them then you only "think". That is by the very definition of knowledge. With Lyon, I haven't seen them either, and I don't think they have as much quality as us either, and we are likely right based on many factors, but we do not know unless we actually see them at least a few times.

Watch a few of their matches before making assertions. I would suggest the match where they out-played Bayern last weekend where it took a Neuer "Bundes Liga player of the week" performance to get Bayern a 0-0 draw.

I guess, I also haven't seen Frankfurt play, but I guess they could have as much quality as us.

Do they play at that level consistently? As we've seen, when teams face a team like Chelsea, Real, Bayern, and Barca they step it up. Real Sociedad out scored Madrid early in the season, it happens. But to say they aren't far behind us in quality is ridiculous, or else they would be contenders for the CL and Bundesliga, which they aren't.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I guess, I also haven't seen Frankfurt play, but I guess they could have as much quality as us.

Do they play at that level consistently? As we've seen, when teams face a team like Chelsea, Real, Bayern, and Barca they step it up. Real Sociedad out scored Madrid early in the season, it happens. But to say they aren't far behind us in quality is ridiculous, or else they would be contenders for the CL and Bundesliga, which they aren't.

Read this post again:

I think you put that exactly right: "Chelsea is currently one of the hardest sides to play against in the continent." But that's not what I'm talking about at all, I'm talking about quality. City have more quality than us but we are favorites for the tittle and have been so since day one. That's because there are a lot more factors involved than quality like the manager, experience, 'balls' as Jose would say...etc.

Gladbach play some really high quality football at times and that's because they have quality players. Like I said in the post on the previous page they lack a killer instinct and the ability to deal with teams defending in numbers, but their quality on the ball and especially the movement of their players is that of a top team.

The reason I'm talking about quality alone and not the general ability of a team to beat another team is because we are talking about the ability of Thorgan to make the step up to a team like Chelsea and I think that that depends mostly on the quality in the team he was in than the other factors. If he can get into Gladbach, then he's not very far away from being able to get into Chelsea.

It takes much more than just quality to win big titles and especially contend for the CL. They wouldn't be undefeated in all competitions this season if they didn't play very well consistently. Their only weakness this season is failing to kill off games and struggling to break down teams that defend deep-kinda like us last season.

[LukakutoStamford 779]

Starting in today's Europa League match versus Apollon

[mediator 2,026]

Jost offered another goal on a plate. Nice assist, perfect cross