🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[Thor 2,705]

Agree with [mention=3876]OneMoSalah[/mention] above.
Like many here have stated over and over again, except his true fans (who predictably are gone by now), his lack of grit is what holds him back: both during games and at practice. You can see that he’s not the most fit footballer.
For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part.

Stop posting.

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[communicate 2,703]

On 6/27/2019 at 6:36 PM, OhForAGreavsie said:

Well, every rating system gives it to Neymar but I think it's closer than this suggests.

Playing in a genuinely effective team makes so big a difference that Eden has been at a huge disadvantage for the bulk of his career. When your side moves the ball quickly, with purpose and with the kind of quality which wrong foots defenders, then running lanes open and the impact of any movement is multiplied. When your passes are collected by Messi or Suarez then your statistics are going to get a boost. I think this compensates for the differences which lead to Neymar being consistently rated above Eden.

I think Neymar and Hazard are pretty much at the same tier. Statistic wise hazard number will definitely be worse because during his time here he has played under defensive manager. If Hazard play for klopp or Pep, I can see his number going up easily. Just look at sterling number. 

 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,075]

20 minutes ago, communicate said:

I think Neymar and Hazard are pretty much at the same tier. Statistic wise hazard number will definitely be worse because during his time here he has played under defensive manager. If Hazard play for klopp or Pep, I can see his number going up easily. Just look at sterling number. 

 

Good point. People can certainly argue that Neymar is better than Hazard, and that argument may even be right. I very much doubt however that many people would buy into the idea that Sterling's numbers suggest that he too is a better player than Eden. My feeling is that if you swapped their teams, you would also swap their numbers.

I'm not saying anybody here doubts that the quality of the team he plays for makes a difference to the impact a player can have. It's just a question of how big that difference in quality has really been in this case, and exactly how big a difference, if any, it has made in the Eden vs Neymar debate.

[robsblubot 3,595]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

Stop posting.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

No?!  

Please use the ignore list so you don’t have to read them? 🙄 

Thought that all the hazard police would be gone by now. 

to the people actually discussing footy here, are you not missing something obvious? Hazard is well behind his peers in terms of shooting, especially from outside of the box. That has little to do with style or formation.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Hazard isn't a finisher, he's a creator. He's the player you want just behind an Aguero, Suarez, Lewandowski, etc. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

20 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Hazard isn't a finisher, he's a creator. He's the player you want just behind an Aguero, Suarez, Lewandowski, etc. 

Sure. I see him more effective as a dribbler than a guy who can find that killer pass tho. That’s KDB.

And dribbling IMO is a bit easier to contain. Give him the side, low block, just contain.

that goes into personal preferences of course, but at this level we are essentially merely discussing what is slightly more effective and in which conditions.

you are in CL semi and you can pick one player to chase a goal, who would that be? In my (fun) list KDB would be well above hazard but that’s just me.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

4 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Sure. I see him more effective as a dribbler than a guy who can find that killer pass tho. That’s be KDB.

And dribbling IMO is a bit easier to contain. Give him the side, low block, just contain.

that goes into personal preferences of course, but at this level we are essentially merely discussing what is slightly more effective and in which conditions.

you are in CL semi and you can pick on player to chase a goal, who would that be? In my (fun) list KDB would be well above hazard but that’s just me.

You have an uncanny dislike towards Hazard don't you? 

I'd say Hazard's dribbling ability is what makes him an effective creator. He may not be a deadly finisher in the box, but he finds the right pass. Since his time in the premier league, he's created more chances than 'Killer pass' experts in David Silva, Ozil, and Eriksen. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

40 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You have an uncanny dislike towards Hazard don't you? 

I'd say Hazard's dribbling ability is what makes him an effective creator. He may not be a deadly finisher in the box, but he finds the right pass. Since his time in the premier league, he's created more chances than 'Killer pass' experts in David Silva, Ozil, and Eriksen. 

I don’t. I mean don’t really care about him now that he’s not our player. I know too many footballers in person to be a fan of any of them.  

it is really interesting that folks really cannot accept that i think hazard is overrated and less effective than other great players within his tier. I’m far from alone btw.

I also find interesting that while many here agree that he lacks determination, they don’t link that with reaching one’s full potential. So, in a way I see him a bit like ronaldinho. While ronaldinho chose partying, hazard chose a laid back lifestyle with his family. Fair choices, but you can’t have it both ways.  They both lacked grit and athleticism.

as a Brazilian, I’ve seen many many amazing dribblers. It’s a very Brazilian thing. In my view dribbling is an important  tool, but creating opportunities, the final ball, is really a different skill set: more akin to passing and vision. I’ve seen amazing dribblers who had trouble with that last ball. Hazard is better than them, because he is more effective at that last pass, but he’s also not as effective as others (in his tier) in that.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

"For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part."

https://tenor.com/view/neymar-football-dive-gif-7797418

 

Grit, physical, rough. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

15 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

"For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part."

https://tenor.com/view/neymar-football-dive-gif-7797418

 

Grit, physical, rough. 

You know they are not mutually exclusive right? 🙄 he dives a lot and at the same time is a bit more dedicated both in games and practice - Neymar is actually extremely fit and very dedicated in practice. at least that’s what they say in Barcelona.

Not really sure why you keep bringing Neymar up as an exemple. Really not a fan. Neymar is VERY overrated and not even in my top 10 list in Brazil. Also not mutually exclusive, both Neymar and hazard are overrated.

Don’t care that much about WC or NT either. Much prefer club football, which is vastly superior.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Who over rates them exactly? 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Who over rates them exactly? 

Here, Belgium fans (same way Brazil fans overate Neymar), and British media (not other team fans).

its all subjective though, so point well taken.

both Brazil and Belgium play France 10x they will lose 6 and tie 4. Being honest here... I picked them to win the wc and it was the easiest pick I can remember.

btw Kante is underrated

[communicate 2,703]

7 hours ago, Robchels said:

No?!  

Please use the ignore list so you don’t have to read them? 🙄 

Thought that all the hazard police would be gone by now. 

to the people actually discussing footy here, are you not missing something obvious? Hazard is well behind his peers in terms of shooting, especially from outside of the box. That has little to do with style or formation.

Hazard finishing is fantastic. Shooting outside the box is not really an essential skill to have. 

For me I don't understand with this hazard being overrated. Hazard is ridiculously good player to the point that our manager setup our team to compensate his defensively liability. 

The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person 

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 hours ago, communicate said:

Hazard finishing is fantastic. Shooting outside the box is not really an essential skill to have. 

For me I don't understand with this hazard being overrated. Hazard is ridiculously good player to the point that our manager setup our team to compensate his defensively liability. 

The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person 

fair enough! different opinions right there. And we are discussing a very high tier here... 

I just think the "The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person " is kinda big deal. If Morata had more drive and a better mentality, he'd be a better striker - morata being the extreme case to make a point.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,075]

11 hours ago, Robchels said:

I don’t. I mean don’t really care about him now that he’s not our player. I know too many footballers in person to be a fan of any of them.  

it is really interesting that folks really cannot accept that i think hazard is overrated and less effective than other great players within his tier. I’m far from alone btw.

I also find interesting that while many here agree that he lacks determination, they don’t link that with reaching one’s full potential. So, in a way I see him a bit like ronaldinho. While ronaldinho chose partying, hazard chose a laid back lifestyle with his family. Fair choices, but you can’t have it both ways.  They both lacked grit and athleticism.

as a Brazilian, I’ve seen many many amazing dribblers. It’s a very Brazilian thing. In my view dribbling is an important  tool, but creating opportunities, the final ball, is really a different skill set: more akin to passing and vision. I’ve seen amazing dribblers who had trouble with that last ball. Hazard is better than them, because he is more effective at that last pass, but he’s also not as effective as others (in his tier) in that.

I don't agree with everything said here but this is clearly a well thought out and entirely defensible point of view.

My own position agrees with the comment which started the current phase the discussion. That post basically claimed that Eden's move to Madrid will provide us all with more information to chew on. It won't be the best possible information however, because Real are rebuilding and that's an important part of the equation. Real have always had an interest in Eden but, while they were at their peak, they never quite wanted him enough to make a decisive move. Maybe that fact should come into the discussion too.

[communicate 2,703]

11 hours ago, Robchels said:

fair enough! different opinions right there. And we are discussing a very high tier here... 

I just think the "The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person " is kinda big deal. If Morata had more drive and a better mentality, he'd be a better striker - morata being the extreme case to make a point.

Morata problem is simply he cannot cope with the physicality of epl. 

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, communicate said:

Morata problem is simply he cannot cope with the physicality of epl. 

I'm not convinced it's that tbh. In his first few months here he was fantastic against Burnley, Stoke, Atletico and Jose's United which are arguably the 4 most physical teams we faced during his time here. He shown in those games especially he can physically compete, it's the mental aspect he can't handle and that is what will always prevent the Morata of those games turning up consistently.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Yup. Very much a mental issue with Morata. 

Had he not get that hamstring injury against City, things could have panned out a lot differently. 

[communicate 2,703]

11 hours ago, Tomo said:

I'm not convinced it's that tbh. In his first few months here he was fantastic against Burnley, Stoke, Atletico and Jose's United which are arguably the 4 most physical teams we faced during his time here. He shown in those games especially he can physically compete, it's the mental aspect he can't handle and that is what will always prevent the Morata of those games turning up consistently.

I honestly have very vague memory of his first few games. But I vaguely remember that I was excited watching his debut and I said he need to get stronger because he looks weak. 

My problem with Morata is when he receive the ball with back behind the goal, he fall down everytime. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:43 PM, communicate said:

I honestly have very vague memory of his first few games. But I vaguely remember that I was excited watching his debut and I said he need to get stronger because he looks weak. 

My problem with Morata is when he receive the ball with back behind the goal, he fall down everytime. 

Think there is a correlation between the points you are both making, and in both directions too.

Physicality brings confidence, especially in the PL. And a strong mentality esp drive, will help the player improve as an athlete (work harder in practice sessions) and then get stronger, again improving his confidence. Morata never got this going.

Perhaps mentality is more of a root cause, but IMO they are definitely linked.