Politics & Stuff

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

11 hours ago, cosmicway said:

 

Jobs die all the time.
I remember this scene: I go to the army recrruitment office -they called me rather- and I have to fill certain forms. So out in the street there is a row of small tables where the "application writers" were sitting. It was two rows 500 meters long each. You pay 5 drachmas to one of the old men to fill your forms and then you go upstairs.
The same thing outside the courthouses. In the courthouses it was a neighbourhood of typist offices who were also making photocopies.
Now all those have disappeared - it's vegan restaurants now. 
What made them disappear ? Microsoft word.

What about software engineering ? I wrote a certain app for Amstrad 128 then showed it to the Amstrad representative. As we were chatting I asked what manner of software they have for the Amstrad, other than mine and other than pacman-spaceshiips for three year olds. They had nothing really. The man said to me that he was writing some program for the electric installations of buildings - that exciting.
The computer age was just starting. After some time all manner of developers made their appearance. With a video club management program one could strike it rich.
But after windows xp all this died too. Because using excel one could manage his video collection with a little training - they did n't have to go to the market.
Well software engineering did n't die but it was no longer easy money.

The same with AI. We are like the men with the tea spoons who wanted to dig Trafalgar square.


 

Yes sir.

 

Amstrad is super old school my man, but yea it was easy money in my day so I cant imagine how it was in the very old days. Are you retired now?

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

1 hour ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

We are halfway here as Microsoft Enterprise copilot as its already guaranteed business data is secure: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/03/16/introducing-microsoft-365-copilot-your-copilot-for-work/

I do agree OpenAI is still hit or miss with data(especially the new 4 models) but it is being tweaked constantly. The key is not making it perfect. The key is making it good enough to where we can replace a team of 5 data scientists with 2 or 1. That is where the job loss will happen, and where it is already happening in other fields.

The most sobering thing to happen to me this summer at least was seeing all of our interns at Microsoft work on these AI projects all happy, and then realize now that the internship is over where in the past years 80%+ of them had full time job offers for the next summer that next to none are getting offers now. We just dont have the need anymore.

I’m highly skeptical in organizations allowing a third party to directly query and pull their data, nor do I see it even being listed as a feature for 365 Copilot. It’s simply a tool to analyze/automate already pulled data. Pulling and querying data is something that will always be a human element. Unless they replace their entire data platform for Microsoft Fabric. 
 

Much like Excel, I see Copilot making a lot of jobs easier vs making them redundant, where instead of waisting 30-40% of the time on needless tasks they can focus all of it on business driven needs. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by MoroccanBlue

[cosmicway 1,333]

39 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Yes sir.

 

Amstrad is super old school my man, but yea it was easy money in my day so I cant imagine how it was in the very old days. Are you retired now?

No, not really retired.
I bought my first machine in 1983. 
 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I’m highly skeptical in organizations allowing a third party to directly query and pull their data, nor do I see it even being listed as a feature for 365 Copilot. It’s simply a tool to analyze/automate already pulled data. Pulling and querying data is something that will always be a human element. Unless they replace their entire data platform for Microsoft Fabric. 
 

Much like Excel, I see Copilot making a lot of jobs easier vs making them redundant, where instead of waisting 30-40% of the time on needless tasks they can focus all of it on business driven needs. 

And then it depends on how your businesses operate.

AI does make jobs easier, but that does not mean it frees the same workers to other things. It simply means we get rid of plenty of workers and place the remaining "less workload" on fewer and fewer people. That becomes the true cost of AI.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

No, not really retired.
I bought my first machine in 1983. 
 

I cant imagine how the industry has changed in your time.

 

Honestly I dont see myself wanting to keep up with it over time. Im trying to do this for another 10 or so years and be done in my early 40s. My first machine was my fathers win 95 machine, in which I learned Visual Basic. He just wanted me to get a job that paid better than driving delivery trucks that he had. Never knew it would end up with me working for them lol.

[MoroccanBlue 5,385]

7 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

And then it depends on how your businesses operate.

AI does make jobs easier, but that does not mean it frees the same workers to other things. It simply means we get rid of plenty of workers and place the remaining "less workload" on fewer and fewer people. That becomes the true cost of AI.

I can agree with that. 

However, I am not sure when, or if ever, organizations will be comfortable feeding confidential data through these AI bots, which could be exposed to both the reviewers of the AI or fed back and be prompted by other eyes. Not unless you're a big enough organization like Microsoft and can create your own AI/Data warehouse platform. 

Just increases exposure of data breaches. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by MoroccanBlue

[robsblubot 3,595]

5 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

We won't judge AI readiness on being perfect though. We judge it how we judge the rest of business. Can it be good enough for an MBA to show as a cost saving metric?

I think commercial driving is more safe than something like copywriting or web development because a truck going wrong on the road can still lead to immediate death. White collar work in general is infinitely in more danger at the current moment.

yes, but commercial driving will be the first hit by "some automation" as in, "drivers" will become "monitors" rather than professional drivers. As in, their driving skill far less important than before. Likely not a great change as for wages and opportunity.

This will all be a slow transition. I don't think anything is imminent--well depends how you define imminent, but I expect decades, not years for real change.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Does AI obey Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics ?

[cosmicway 1,333]

I believe in AI.
But it has to be pre-programmed for every task. How else is it going to work ?
Suppose we are the German high command in 1944 and we want to know where the allies will land.
To do this using AI first we have to feed it with data:
The coastlines of France, the defenses, the strength of the Luftwaffe and the concentrations of allied troops in England - if we can.
Then what sort of algorithm will AI use, to produce better results than those of Runsted-Rommel and anticipate the invasion ?
In retrospect it looks like the solution was to move the division "das reich" to the coast of Normandy in time and not after the event which is what the Germans did.
But we say this with the post-posterior information we have so it does n't count.
Will AI in a simulation solve this problem for the German high command ?

Edited August 13, 2023 by cosmicway

[cosmicway 1,333]

HOOLIGANS - GREEK, CROATIAN AND OTHERS

Football hooliganism is an old thing.
Not as old as football itself but old enough.
In Greece they started life at around 1972. This is when for the first time moving masses of supporters were noticed, causing trouble.
Greece was still under the junta but that did n't play any role.
In the years to follow hooliganism took hold but in other countries it was already known from before. In England from the midsixties.
It is in a certain way the projection and the natural continuation of football fanaticism.
Before the hooligans the rage of football supporters was extinguished on the referees - or the bad referees if you like. We also had isolated incidents. Two rival supporters seating side by side - the one says some words and fighting ensues.
But things became a lot worse as we know.
It is not a small matter for someone who enters strong arguments from time to time to move into a phase where he wakes up in the middle of the night, moves from suburb to suburb to burn the offices of the rival club.
Here some analysis is required.

Many talk about nazis or, depending on which club we are talking about, for maoists-anarchists.
Basically this does n't hold ground. The UK nazis for example were calling themselves the party of racism, colonialism, iron fist rule should they ever came to power. But they were not calling themselves the party of ... Leicester City, or the party of ... Luton town FC, or the party of ... Arsenal.
The two kinds of logic don't fit together.
It is true that nazi instructors are getting involved, to school the youngsters.
It is also true that a football hooligan may become a nazi of his own free will, since nazism and hooliganism are similar states of mind.
But it's not true that the nazis, anarchists etc created hooliganism.

It's a football phenomenon and -unfortunately- the teams themselves have created it.
They have collected all the low life elements of society and made them into supporter clubs.
Could they have chosen doctors-lawyers-scientists to do that ? Rather not, they could n't so they engaged the low life elements.
This is the truth.
There is nothing else besides.
So therefere if for every 100 fanatical supporters we have 15 hooligans, it's enough to cause a big problem.

Is there a cure ?
There is and it is called Margaret Thatcher.
Margaret Thatcher was a politician who was disliked by many but what she did, to practically eliminate hooliganism from the UK was an achievement.
How can it be done ?
Five years out of Europe, 4-5 relegations plus the penalties imposed on the individuals who are arrested.
But are we going to see this ? Or perhaps we won't ?

Edited August 14, 2023 by cosmicway

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

20 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

HOOLIGANS - GREEK, CROATIAN AND OTHERS

Football hooliganism is an old thing.
Not as old as football itsekf but old enough.
In Greece they started life at around 1972. This is when for the first time moving masses of supporters were noticed, causing trouble.
Greece was still under the junta but that did n't play any role.
In the years to follow hooliganism took hold but in other countries it was already known from before. In England from the midsixties.
It is in a ceratin way the projection and the natural continuation of football fanaticism.
Before the hooligans the rage of football supporters was extinguished on the referees - or the bad referees if you like. We also had isolated incidents. Two rival supporters seating side by side - the one says some words and fighting ensues.
But things became a lot worse as we know.
It is not a small matter for someone who enters strong arguments from time to time to move into a phase where he wakes up in the middle of the night, moves from suburb to suburb to burn the offices of the rival club.
Here some analysis is required.

Many talk about nazis or, depending on which club we are talking about, for maoists-anarchists.
Basically this does n't hold ground. The UK nazis for example were calling themselves the party of racism, colonialism, iron fist rule should they ever came to power. But they were not calling themselves the party of ... Leicester City, or the party of ... Luton town FC, or the party of ... Arsenal.
The two kinds of logic don't fit together.
It is true that nazi instructors are getting involved, to school the youngsters.
It is also true that a football hooligan may become a nazi of his own free will, since nazism and hooliganism are similar states of mind.
But it's not true that the nazis, anarchists etc created hooliganism.

It's a football phenomenon and -unfortunately- the teams themselves have created it.
They have collected all the low life elements of society and made them into supporter clubs.
Could they have chosen doctors-lawyers-scientists to do that ? Rather not, they could n't so they engaged the low life elements.
This is the truth.
There is nothing else besides.
So therefere if for every 100 fanatical supporters we have 15 hooligans, it's enough to cause a big problem.

Is there a cure ?
There is and it is called Margaret Thatcher.
Margaret Thatcher was a politician who was disliked by many but what she did, to practically eliminate hooliganism from the UK was an achievement.
How can it be done ?
Five years out of Europe, 4-5 relegations plus the penalties imposed on the individuals who are arrested.
But are we going to see this ? Or perhaps we won't ?

Anything that has passion also has violence, unfortunately the two things come hand in hand and you will never eliminate it completely.

Edited August 14, 2023 by YorkshireBlue

[cosmicway 1,333]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Anything that has passion also has violence, unfortunately the two things come hand in hand and you will never eliminate it completely.

Dynamo - 5 yrs out of Europe
PAOK Salonika - 3d division

Will they try again ? Would you place a bet on it ?

Those are the recent events - if we talk about the past I may expand to more cases.

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

10 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Dynamo - 5 yrs out of Europe
PAOK Salonika - 3d division

Will they try again ? Would you place a bet on it ?

Those are the recent events - if we talk about the past I may expand to more cases.

It will always happen, most of these fights are pre arranged to start with, you only ever hear about them when they escalate onto city streets.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Just now, YorkshireBlue said:

It will always happen, most of these fights are pre arranged to start with, you only ever hear about them when they escalate onto city streets.

Be sensible. It would just peter out.

[Vegetable 830]

23 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Could they have chosen doctors-lawyers-scientists to do that ? Rather not, they could n't so they engaged the low life elements.
This is the truth.
There is nothing else besides.

Well, easy if it's only that. Here in the east it's hard not to point that the "hooligan" groups are often pretty much drug cartels and other kind of organized crime, with football being just an addition to have a little fight from time to time, holding the clubs and sometimes cities hostage to their influence.

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

15 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Be sensible. It would just peter out.

You can be as sensible as you like, fighting over football will never Peter out.

[cosmicway 1,333]

3 hours ago, Vegetable said:

Well, easy if it's only that. Here in the east it's hard not to point that the "hooligan" groups are often pretty much drug cartels and other kind of organized crime, with football being just an addition to have a little fight from time to time, holding the clubs and sometimes cities hostage to their influence.

They would disappear with the Thatcher method.
But the politicians don't dare to.
Here is a funny story for you.

In 2005 Olympiakos fans set fire to a stadium. The match never started and Olympiakos had points deducted.
But they wanted the sentence to be repealed.
That was January 2005 and some weeks later -after the deduction of the points- I 'm invited by some crowd to attend a certain function in an orphanage in Piraeus.
It was for the new year and in Greece we have belated new year celebrations for up to February.
The folks who invited me was a local club of race goers (horse racing fans) so nothing to do with football, I went there and nobody knew I was even a football supporter or anything.
So I sit on a table, they offered us candy and waited for the mayor to make a speech, mainly about the activities of the orphanage I expected.
To my surprise I noticed various pieces of small paper on every table and out of curiosity I picked some of them to see what they were.
So what do I read ? It was poems with lewd verses about the other teams !
I did n't make a comment, sat and waited for the mayor.
So the mayor comes, there was a small band playing music as well and he made his speech.
What he said was "Pireaus port will burn if this sentence is not repealed - I came here to warn the government minister and everybody !"
The govt was New Democracy and what sort of mayor was that ?
He was a New Democracy mayor who the year before managed to defeat the left wing former mayor.
So -in effect- if New Democracy wanted to win in Piraeus again they had better behave !
True to form the sentence was repealed, the match was played, Olympiakos won 2-0 and at the end of the season won the league by the narrowest of margins - thanks to the reprieve.



 

Edited August 14, 2023 by cosmicway

[cosmicway 1,333]

19 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

You can be as sensible as you like, fighting over football will never Peter out.

What won't happen is politicians getting their act together and also politicians of different countries working together I 'm afraid.

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

s there a cure ?
There is and it is called Margaret Thatcher.

🤣 🤣

Totally wrong I am afraid. She made some reactive public statements after Heysel when Liverpool  fans murdered 39 people. She tried to get her rat Sports Secretary Colin Moynihan introduce ID cards. It fell flat on its arse. The 80s when Thatcher was in power were the hooligan Glory years. Away games for Chelsea were like invasions, absolute carnage. The decade culminated in Bradford and Hillsborough disasters thanks to the tory press, such as the Sun having League tables of the best hooligans. The 80s were the decade of hooliganism, the ten years Thatcher presided over it.

[cosmicway 1,333]

1 hour ago, Fulham Broadway said:

🤣 🤣

Totally wrong I am afraid. She made some reactive public statements after Heysel when Liverpool  fans murdered 39 people. She tried to get her rat Sports Secretary Colin Moynihan introduce ID cards. It fell flat on its arse. The 80s when Thatcher was in power were the hooligan Glory years. Away games for Chelsea were like invasions, absolute carnage. The decade culminated in Bradford and Hillsborough disasters thanks to the tory press, such as the Sun having League tables of the best hooligans. The 80s were the decade of hooliganism, the ten years Thatcher presided over it.

I remember England v. Paraguay in 1986, the match before the hand of god.
It was a stadium full of NF hooligans. When England players were walking outside to collect balls for a throw in they were being shrouded by an NF flag hanging from the terraces (much to their dismay).
But nevertheless M.T. made a name and afterwards very little things happen when as rightly you say it was absolute carnage.
So whatever, I 'm talking about Thatcher method rather than Thatcherism as such.

Edited August 14, 2023 by cosmicway