Politics & Stuff

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

12 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Forget guns... start "small" by banning assault weapons first. 😉

The arguments for assault weapon possession being allowed in the US are the the most ridiculous things you will hear.
But then again, if even the Uvalde massacre wasn't enough to move the needle... 🤷‍♂️

Banning assault weapons is simply masking a problem, you can do mass shooting with a pistol just as easier as with a AR if you have experience with guns,. Which let's be honest most mass shootings the shooter is generally a avid gun user. I've been to America and being in a few firearms shops over there, the amount of firearms and variations of firearms on offer for people to buy was crazy, I joined the military at 16 so have been around guns all my adult life in the UK, the thought of your average Joe going into a firearms shop and buying some of the most powerful firearms on the planet over a counter makes my skin crawl.

Edited April 5, 2023 by YorkshireBlue

[lucio 5,418]

19 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

If you really want to achieve "mass killings" you would use chemicals, guns and knifes are chosen for a specific task, AR are used to kill alot of people quickly and a range that's considered safe for the shooter and isn't very personal, as most mass killing entry wounds are in the back, a rifle compared to a knife for obvious reason doesn't allow most people to run away, were as knife attacks are for close quarters suprise attackers, stabbing some one is alot more personal than shooting some one, therefore knife attacks are normally used for a specific target. The real problem is people, knifes and guns are harmless without a complete idiot holding it.

You're right ,. It's easy to pull a trigger and kill someone from far away in a fit of anger. Stabbing takes a lot more.

Guns are only really designed and used to kill. Knives are a useful tool that has been around for millennia. World would be a lot better if guns were never invented.

[cosmicway 1,323]

What they say a lot is that they need them against the Brits.
While I 'm sure the Brits will get their act together one day and return, how is that going to work if their national guard is defeated ?
Also they could make a contingency plan so just before the national guard is defeated they start giving those guns around to the werewolf partisans - they don't need to sell them in shops.

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

40 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

What they say a lot is that they need them against the Brits.
While I 'm sure the Brits will get their act together one day and return, how is that going to work if their national guard is defeated ?
Also they could make a contingency plan so just before the national guard is defeated they start giving those guns around to the werewolf partisans - they don't need to sell them in shops.

 

51 minutes ago, lucio said:

You're right ,. It's easy to pull a trigger and kill someone from far away in a fit of anger. Stabbing takes a lot more.

Guns are only really designed and used to kill. Knives are a useful tool that has been around for millennia. World would be a lot better if guns were never invented.

I've heard this numerous of times, "it's me right to own and carry a gun as a American I won't give that right up" ok sound, let's continue to have kids slaughtered in there schools so you can keep your "right to own a gun" it's absolutely madness, surely a better"right" is to be able to send your 7 8 9 year old child to school, knowing next time you see them, they wont be full of holes.

 

[lucio 5,418]

22 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

 

I've heard this numerous of times, "it's me right to own and carry a gun as a American I won't give that right up" ok sound, let's continue to have kids slaughtered in there schools so you can keep your "right to own a gun" it's absolutely madness, surely a better"right" is to be able to send your 7 8 9 year old child to school, knowing next time you see them, they wont be full of holes.

 

Disgusting really. They need guns to feel safe because they are scared of other people with guns. Never ending cycle. 

 

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

56 minutes ago, lucio said:

Disgusting really. They need guns to feel safe because they are scared of other people with guns. Never ending cycle. 

 

Problem now is you will never end that cycle, you can never get rid of guns in the US now there are far to many, and to even try, will most likely end up in civil war.

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Problem now is you will never end that cycle, you can never get rid of guns in the US now there are far to many, and to even try, will most likely end up in civil war.

Yep, in that sense the USA is fucked, probably too late to do anything about it now. They are victims of their own constitution and they will never change it.

[Vesper 28,796]

the mass shootings in the US EXPLODED after 2 things happened:

1. The 1994 assault weapons ban expired 10 years later, in 2004. The only way they could get it passed in 1994 was to agree to a 10 years sunset clause that required a new vote. In 2004 the votes were no longer there.

2. Because of the 2003 and onward Iraq war (plus even before that, Afghanistan), the American gun industry, as soon as the could sell them, saw a HUGE new market due to soldiers coming back after using them and wanting/promoting them, plus the press and media/movies hyping up the weapons used over in the 'war on terror' (cough cough) battle theatres. A new type of gun obsessed customer was created and nurtured.

When a person is shot by an AR-15, it looks like a grenade went off in there.

The damage from a battle rifle round is INSANE compare to most handgun rounds.

The bullets travel far faster, are more accurate, and they blow apart internally on impact by design, the explosive bubble/impact size from an AR-15 round is 400-500% larger inside the body than a 9mm pistol round (the pistol rounds often go all the way through the body and exit, the battle rifle rounds mostly blow apart and scatter inside the flesh and body cavities).

A small child can have their entire chest blown apart. Some of them look like they have hade the whole backs scooped out. Plus a battle rifle can have MASSIVE capacity magazines. Far more rounds fired in a super short time with far less reloading time.

this article is a great primer:

AMERICAN ICON

THE BLAST EFFECT

 

This is how bullets from an AR-15 blow the body apart

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-damage-to-human-body/

Edited April 5, 2023 by Vesper

[Vesper 28,796]

[Fernando 6,455]

17 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Forget guns... start "small" by banning assault weapons first. 😉

The arguments for assault weapon possession being allowed in the US are the the most ridiculous things you will hear.
But then again, if even the Uvalde massacre wasn't enough to move the needle... 🤷‍♂️

This would make sense. Ban assault weapons to be owned, except with permits and all that stuff. 

You technically won't take "their guns" away but you reduce them to something lesser. 

[Vesper 28,796]

[robsblubot 3,504]

8 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Banning assault weapons is simply masking a problem, you can do mass shooting with a pistol just as easier as with a AR if you have experience with guns,. Which let's be honest most mass shootings the shooter is generally a avid gun user. I've been to America and being in a few firearms shops over there, the amount of firearms and variations of firearms on offer for people to buy was crazy, I joined the military at 16 so have been around guns all my adult life in the UK, the thought of your average Joe going into a firearms shop and buying some of the most powerful firearms on the planet over a counter makes my skin crawl.

I suggest you read more about the Uvalde incident. Police with guns, and later with assault weapons themselves, were *afraid* of going in and were expecting heavy casualties if they did.

Assault weapons are not comparable with pistols in terms of the damage they can do. There is a reason soldiers use assault weapons and not pistols when they go to war. Assault weapons are machine guns in practice.

BTW, I know guys on the very right side/military who think Assault weapons shouldn't be easy to buy like they are.

Edited April 5, 2023 by robsblubot

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I suggest you read more about the Uvalde incident. Police with guns, and later with assault weapons themselves, were *afraid* of going in and were expecting heavy casualties if they did.

Assault weapons are not comparable with pistols in terms of the damage they can do. There is a reason soldiers use assault weapons and not pistols when they go to war. Assault weapons are machine guns in practice.

BTW, I know guys on the very right side/military who think Assault weapons shouldn't be easy to buy like they are.

I am ex military and I carried a side arm/pistol with me constantly aswell as my AR my point is any half decent trained person could cause mass shootings with an AR or a side arm the size of the gun is irrelevant, a gun kills regardless of size. Also military AR because of the accuracy and range, we are trained to use our ARs on single fire mode, not full automatic.

Edited April 5, 2023 by YorkshireBlue

[robsblubot 3,504]

21 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

I am ex military and I carried a side arm/pistol with me constantly aswell as my AR my point is any half decent trained person could cause mass shootings with an AR or a side arm the size of the gun is irrelevant, a gun kills regardless of size.

I'm not gun nut, but my father was a police officer, so I'm not unfamiliar with the subject.

Yeah I can't agree with that. You are reducing the issue to the number of people that can be murdered within a time frame and in a particular location, in which case the firearm in question would indeed be less important, not entirely as people don't really stand still while being shot at. I will once again point to the Uvalde incident as an example: there were (young children!) fatalities *during* the standoff. Police rather face someone carrying a handgun than one carrying an assault rifle (a machine gun that can spread bullets in multiple directions due to the high firing rate)... the audio discussion from the cops talk about the weapon constantly.

In outside areas, for example, an assault weapon would be far more precise and can cause a lot more damage than a handgun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting 

Large-capacity magazines play a part as well, no?

Why would the military give solders the far more expensive assault rifles as opposed to the much cheaper handguns if they were the same at killing? 

Edited April 5, 2023 by robsblubot

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

43 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I'm not gun nut, but my father was a police officer, so I'm not unfamiliar with the subject.

Yeah I can't agree with that. You are reducing the issue to the number of people that can be murdered within a time frame and in a particular location, in which case the firearm in question would indeed be less important, not entirely as people don't really stand still while being shot at. I will once again point to the Uvalde incident as an example: there were (young children!) fatalities *during* the standoff. Police rather face someone carrying a handgun than one carrying an assault rifle (a machine gun that can spread bullets in multiple directions due to the high firing rate)... the audio discussion from the cops talk about the weapon constantly.

In outside areas, for example, an assault weapon would be far more precise and can cause a lot more damage than a handgun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting 

Large-capacity magazines play a part as well, no?

Why would the military give solders the far more expensive assault rifles as opposed to the much cheaper handguns if they were the same at killing? 

Your missing what I am saying, rifles are used because of the impact damage potential fire rate and accuracy at distance, now mass shooters choose AR because of the spray and pray method, hold that trigger down and try keep the rifle steady, see how many people you hit with a 30 round spread, what I am saying is someone who is trained enough in fire arms could commit aass shooting with a hand gun, for the reason been you are familiar with the concept of aiming and firing, of a pistol holds 12 rounds and you hit all 12, say an AR holds 25 to 30 rounds and you miss 50% because you can aim for jack shit or control the recoil the difference is 1 or 2 shots missed or hit. The fact is a untrained person feels safer with a bigger firearm, if you had half a brain you would go in with a sub machine gun not an AR

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

the mass shootings in the US EXPLODED after 2 things happened:

1. The 1994 assault weapons ban expired 10 years later, in 2004. The only way they could get it passed in 1994 was to agree to a 10 years sunset clause that required a new vote. In 2004 the votes were no longer there.

2. Because of the 2003 and onward Iraq war (plus even before that, Afghanistan), the American gun industry, as soon as the could sell them, saw a HUGE new market due to soldiers coming back after using them and wanting/promoting them, plus the press and media/movies hyping up the weapons used over in the 'war on terror' (cough cough) battle theatres. A new type of gun obsessed customer was created and nurtured.

When a person is shot by an AR-15, it looks like a grenade went off in there.

The damage from a battle rifle round is INSANE compare to most handgun rounds.

The bullets travel far faster, are more accurate, and they blow apart internally on impact by design, the explosive bubble/impact size from an AR-15 round is 400-500% larger inside the body than a 9mm pistol round (the pistol rounds often go all the way through the body and exit, the battle rifle rounds mostly blow apart and scatter inside the flesh and body cavities).

A small child can have their entire chest blown apart. Some of them look like they have hade the whole backs scooped out. Plus a battle rifle can have MASSIVE capacity magazines. Far more rounds fired in a super short time with far less reloading time.

this article is a great primer:

AMERICAN ICON

THE BLAST EFFECT

 

This is how bullets from an AR-15 blow the body apart

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-damage-to-human-body/

That is fucking grim reading. Disgusting that teenagers or anyone with a grudge can get hold of such destruction -basically because the NRA and arms manufacturers dont want arms share dividends to fall

[YorkshireBlue 3,122]

8 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

That is fucking grim reading. Disgusting that teenagers or anyone with a grudge can get hold of such destruction -basically because the NRA and arms manufacturers dont want arms share dividends to fall

 

8 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

That is fucking grim reading. Disgusting that teenagers or anyone with a grudge can get hold of such destruction -basically because the NRA and arms manufacturers dont want arms share dividends to fall

Money rules over everything eles unfortunately 

[robsblubot 3,504]

1 minute ago, YorkshireBlue said:

is someone who is trained enough in fire arms could commit aass shooting with a hand gun

I think I understand what you are saying, but once again think you are reducing the issue and ignoring the actual situations presented (Vegas and Uvalde); I was literally reporting what was said by the police in the audio--it's available and be listened to (if you have the stomach).

The worst part of Assault Rifles here in the US is that many places ANYONE can buy them! You don't even have to know how to use them. Why do you assume the folks who committed these atrocities have had any level of training and could do what a trained individual could? Some of these folks were not even right in the head and were able to buy and use these weapons.

Finally, on a personal note, I'd rather live in a place where I don't see folks carrying assault rifles in the streets. It just looks and feels like a third world military state rather than a place I'd want to live. I understand, like you said, that a concealed weapon in the wrong hands (or right depending how you see it) can be just as deadly if used properly, but I rather prefer if they were available only to a) people who knew how to use them and b) were mentally stable/no criminal record.