Politics & Stuff

[cosmicway 1,323]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

How is the UK fascist when parties are democratically elected?

Yeah but Theresa is giving it a hell of a good try.

[Spike 12,049]

14 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

That is the point. I agree with Manpe, he is saying fans would get their comeuppance if they were racist. Don't you think that would be a good thing ?

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing

To a degree but that is on the basis that there is an objective moral law. This is the same train of thought used by globalists and interventionism. Where does the right to grant justice come from especially in an instance where there has been no action against any parties? Where does the right to reprimand someone or a group come from when the group hasn't actually done anything? From your perspective you are the good that is enforcing morality, from their perspective you are the evil enforcing it's own morality.

I'm more interested in the culture Estonia. Anti-racism isn't an inherent part of 'good'. I'd wager there are more racist cultures in the world than not and I don't readily label all those people as strictly 'evil'. I was merely curious if Estonia was a nation that wasn't fussed by racism. 

[Spike 12,049]

3 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Yeah but Theresa is giving it a hell of a good try.

Back to the previous post. Are you conflating fascist states with dictatorships? Surely the rigid class nature of fascism is at odds with the 'classless' society perpetuated by the eastern-bloc?

[cosmicway 1,323]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

Back to the previous post. Are you conflating fascist states with dictatorships? Surely the rigid class nature of fascism is at odds with the 'classless' society perpetuated by the eastern-bloc?

There were variants in the non-communist world.
Dictatorships and dictatorships calling themselves "parenthesis" and the word fascism could no longer be used of course (thus Idi Amin could not call himself a fascist, he called himself the god's emissary or something like that).
What they had in common was they could n't control the economy by 100%. So in fascist Greece of 1967-74 you had a chance if good enough but in the Soviet Union you had none - you were off to Siberia.
The newer fascist states can control the economy so it's not communism like USSR but life is only for the party croneys.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

26 minutes ago, Spike said:

To a degree but that is on the basis that there is an objective moral law. This is the same train of thought used by globalists and interventionism. Where does the right to grant justice come from especially in an instance where there has been no action against any parties? Where does the right to reprimand someone or a group come from when the group hasn't actually done anything? From your perspective you are the good that is enforcing morality, from their perspective you are the evil enforcing it's own morality.

I'm more interested in the culture Estonia. Anti-racism isn't an inherent part of 'good'. I'd wager there are more racist cultures in the world than not and I don't readily label all those people as strictly 'evil'. I was merely curious if Estonia was a nation that wasn't fussed by racism. 

Not sure what that's all about tbh.

Manpe said if some fans at an Estonian match were acting up by being racist to some players, all the rest of the fans would sort them out. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and has happened at the Bridge as well.

[Spike 12,049]

1 minute ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Not sure what that's all about tbh.

Manpe said if some fans at an Estonian match were acting up by being racist to some players, all the rest of the fans would sort them out. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and has happened at the Bridge as well.

I asking him about Estonia outside of the games. You missed the point.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

8 minutes ago, Spike said:

I asking him about Estonia outside of the games. You missed the point.

You asking him ? OK hope he replies

[Spike 12,049]

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

You asking him ? OK hope he replies

He did already, you . I was asking him questions and you started replying so I assumed you were on the same page.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

He did already, you . I was asking him questions and you started replying so I assumed you were on the same page.

Ah seen his post now.

I like his idea that for ''every racist asshole, 50 other fans would sort them out''. Top idea.

[Spike 12,049]

2 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Ah seen his post now.

I like his idea that for ''every racist asshole, 50 other fans would sort them out''. Top idea.

I don't disagree with that but I was never asking about that. I was asking what would happen in Estonia in an environment where no one was being attacked. At a football game harassing blacks is one thing, but hanging out at the local bar being racist when there isn't anyone of a different ethnicity for 100miles is a different thing. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? That was my train of thought. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't disagree with that but I was never asking about that. I was asking what would happen in Estonia in an environment where no one was being attacked. At a football game harassing blacks is one thing, but hanging out at the local bar being racist when there isn't anyone of a different ethnicity for 100miles is a different thing. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? That was my train of thought. 

So do you think being racist to black people is ok if there isn't any black people about then ?

[Spike 12,049]

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

So do you think being racist to black people is ok if there isn't any black people about then ?

Does it affect you when a Congolese man laments how much he hates white people? And again you missed the point; I was asking if the same thing would happen in Estonia outside of the football game. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Does it affect you when a Congolese man laments how much he hates white people?

No but an American/Australian thinking its ok to be racist to black people because there are none in the vicinity is pretty shocking

[Spike 12,049]

4 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

No but an American/Australian thinking its ok to be racist to black people because there are none in the vicinity is pretty shocking

Where did I say it was okay? Please quote me; in fact I would love for you to quote the exact sentence I say 'American/Australian thinking its ok to be racist to black people because there are none in the vicinity' . Enough with your strawman bullshit FB, play it straight.

[Spike 12,049]

Just because I raise questions and like to debate doesn't mean the viewpoint I'm arguing for is my personal belief.  I just like to engage in discourse with people and I suppose some people don't like that and reduce everything to emotions or identity-politics. I like to get to the meat and potatoes of it, assume nothing and have fun. One of my favourite debates on in this thread is between Choulo and I. We discussed the moral and scientific relationship of abortion and I feel like I came out of that debate having learned something new.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Where did I say it was okay? Please quote me; in fact I would love for you to quote the exact sentence I say 'American/Australian thinking its ok to be racist to black people because there are none in the vicinity' . Enough with your strawman bullshit FB, play it straight.

Pretty certain 99% of rational people if asked ''Is it ok to be racist to black people if there aren't any in the room ?'' would give a resounding NO.

You failed to answer the question, just some bullshit deflection,  so I guess people can make up their own minds.

 

[Spike 12,049]

15 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Pretty certain 99% of rational people if asked ''Is it ok to be racist to black people if there aren't any in the room ?'' would give a resounding NO.

You failed to answer the question, just some bullshit deflection,  so I guess people can make up their own minds.

 

What was bullshit was inferring that it was my personal opinion when it never had anything to do with me. I was asking someone else if it was the social norm in their culture. What does that have to do with me FB? You want to know my personal opinion? I think it doesn't matter. You know why it doesn't matter? Because no-one has been hurt. Do I give a fuck if some black guy rants to his family about hating me because I'm white? No. Do I give a fuck if that person hurts someone, yes I do. Would I want to associate with people that hate people based on their skin? No, I wouldn't because that doesn't align with my beliefs but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I have the right to be the moral arbiter and lecture them on race relations if they are unwilling to engage in discourse. I'd leave that to the authorities or any organisation that aims to reduce racism.

And you know what FB? I'm not guilty for not answering a question and me not answering that question doesn't justify the assumption. You can take your weightless, evidenceless accusations of racism and sod off. Sick of it.

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

That isn't the point. Manpe said' public racists would get their fair treatment in no time by other fans. Would you start a fight or a ruckus without someone that was being racist despite their being no-one around that is the intended target? No one has been discriminated, they aren't defending anyone, it would simply be an exercise in censorship. And from Manpe has said again it'd be better handled by the authorities as it seems the Estonian authorities have a handle on the situation.

You misunderstood. When I said "public racists", I meant exactly a situation where there would be a target and others are witnessing it. In this case I was thinking more of a situation in a football match where a black player would be thrown with banana peels and yelled at with disgusting insults. And by "fair treatment" I didn't necessarily mean a fight, but anything that would be done to shut him/them up.