Oriol and Obi

[Blue Armour 4,289]

I could have posted this in the start(l)ing 11 thread but I felt this could be worth a little bit of discussion on its own.

I think its pretty clear from our recent results, that our time with the 4-3-3 formation is more or less done. The failure is largely due to the fact that we lack genuine wingers to add width, the inability of the 3 man midfield to retain possession and the inconsistency of the target-man.

4-2-3-1 seems to be the order of the day, and although it might not solve our issues with productivity in attack, it certainly helps in retaining possession.

However that wasn't really the case last Tuesday, when the two holding midfielders in our formation were swept aside. Its clear neither Raul nor Ramires are suited to the role. The former can't tackle to save his life, while the latter will simply be restrained in this role.

So who are the other contenders? Essien is a good choice but he doesn't seem capable of surviving the whole 90 mins, or playing two consecutive matches in a week. Plus, he seems to have lost the tenacity in chasing down opponents and winning the ball back. There's Lampard, but I don't think he enjoys that role very much.

That leaves us with Mikel and Romeu. Now there are a lot of people who are disappointed with Mikel, and rightly so. He's slow, too sluggish in attack and doesn't seem to offer anything in terms of creativity. Then there are the moments of carelessness, where he misplaces a pass. But, credit where its due, he can definitely shield the ball well when he wants to and is very capable of being an obstacle for his opponents.

Romeu is in a slightly different mold. He too offers hardly anything in terms of creativity, but is faster and knows how to get in the face of attacking players.

The bottom line is both these two can effectively pair up to form a good shield for our back four. This will lead to clean sheets, and build up the confidence of our defense. This ia absolutely vital for recovering our form, before the second leg against Napoli (in a month's time).

The obvious con here is that the distribution from midfield will lack creativity but I believe the priority as of now is to ensure clean sheets and retaining possession. Once these aspects are taken care of, Mata, Sturridge and the rest of our forwards can concentrate on putting the ball in back of the net. Lets also not forget, that these two players are relatively young and can still realize their true attacking potential if AVB gives them more game time and encourages them to make those forward passes. (Remember Mikel the attacking midfielder?).Their distribution will only get better with more game time.

I know it would be best if we had a Joao Moutinho or Modric, but until the next transfer window, I think this our best option.

[francozola 2,040]

Romeu is more suited to our team in most games. In certain games, for example the Utd game a couple of weeks back when Romeu came on and was a disaster, Mikel is the better option.

Playing both at the same time would be too defensive and in most games it isn't needed especially since most teams park the bus and we need some kind of attacking movement to penetrate. HOWEVER, it's not like any of our other midfielders offer any creativity anyway. Lampard and Meireles offer NOTHING going forward. Essien as well. Ramires is the only one who makes things happen but it's simply due to his energy not actual ball-playing abilities.

Against the "lesser" teams who park the bus, the Boltons, Fulhams etc I don't think possession is a problem for us so I don't see why we need to play both. We need somebody to slice defences open and we've sent the only two players in our squad capable of doing that from midfield out on loan. Sigh

[Blue Armour 4,289]

Romeu is more suited to our team in most games. In certain games, for example the Utd game a couple of weeks back when Romeu came on and was a disaster, Mikel is the better option.

Playing both at the same time would be too defensive and in most games it isn't needed especially since most teams park the bus and we need some kind of attacking movement to penetrate. HOWEVER, it's not like any of our other midfielders offer any creativity anyway. Lampard and Meireles offer NOTHING going forward. Essien as well. Ramires is the only one who makes things happen but it's simply due to his energy not actual ball-playing abilities.

Against the "lesser" teams who park the bus, the Boltons, Fulhams etc I don't think possession is a problem for us so I don't see why we need to play both. We need somebody to slice defences open and we've sent the only two players in our squad capable of doing that from midfield out on loan. Sigh

I know it hardly helps with creativity, but like you yourself said, when has the midfield really been involved in producing our goals ? Lampard and Ramires are both very good at getting the final ball, but they haven't created much for others.

I thought of this with mainly the defense in mind. Terry is out for a month, and like Ivanovic said, Cahill and Luiz are still getting used to playing together. I think for the next one month, having Romeu and Mikel in front can help restore confidence and organization to our back line, by shielding them from rapid counter-attacks,etc. This something we desperately need before the return leg against Napoli.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I saw on Twitter last night he's only been not playing because of an injury. Apparently he's fit now.

[Madmax 9,219]

Mikel's more suited to the current low-tempo stand off style the manager's preferred since he finally got around to doing something about the defensive line faux pas. Romeu's better at closing down space and pushing on to the opposition when out of possession. Seems to me Romeu's in for a long stay if AVB's original blueprint will be out again next season.

[Badboy 1,526]

Romeu is much more aggressive and that's why he's probably more suited to the team. Neither of them are Makalele standard, we have never replaced Makalele he clogged up spaces with his brain and it made it difficult for the opposition to penetrate.

[amaraal 6]

I am afraid Mikel is out. He is a Xavi Alonso style DMC who thinks he should and could play like Lionel Messi.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Why not play both if playing 4231. I know attack would be unheard of with these two on pitch but hey better than givin up 3 goals. And also why we no longer playin high defensive line?! Cahill has won mostvoffsides I believe in epl? And him and Luiz and ivan and cole are completely fast enough to cover! It's only with JT we can't do it. Hugh line against bolton would do wonders! They don't have quality to break it IMHO, but with this team they'll prob find a way.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

I fully agree with the idea of placing two CDM's in today's situation, but i wouldnt choose Mikel as one of the two. I think AVB should pick Essien,

and get him into form. When Essien is fit, you cant compare him with someone like Mikel. And Im not talking about Essien "The Bison", im

just talking about a fit Essien- with his current abilities, AND when he can play for 90 min. Essien he's still an extremly smart footballer,

you dont lose it, and the most improtant thing imo- we will finaly have that 'Persona' in midfield. Not sure if you will get me so i'll explain..

I think that one of our big problems this season was that we are playing with very soft/young/non "leader-ish" midfielders. We allways

had those big names in midfield- Maka, Ballack, Ess, this season we didnt had that big name CM that the opponents know they will

have to get past him to get to our defense and goal.. Romeo is talented and a good CDM overall, but he isnt gonna 'scare' no one for now.

I think we have to have this kind of player who brings that threat on the opponents. (Not going to talk about Mikel, did it enough in the past...

bottom line is that i dont believe in him).

[Santiago. 1,500]

Romeu(Pros)

-quick with the ball

-stabilizes the midfield as well as the defense.

-Find's space better than most of our players.

-Physical nature to his football.

-Tiki Taka influenced

-Creative Spark when moving forward

-Accurate with his passing

-Rare he loses the ball

-Very young as well as high potential

CONS

-Inexperienced in competitive matches and the nature of the PL

-Lack of Speed

Mikel(Pros)

- Defensive Nature

- Breaks up opposing attack

- Reliable in defending and closing space

CONS-

Error Prone

Consistent simple mistakes

Slow with ball

Slow with Transition

Lack of Attacking presence

Lack of Creativity

[Wilson 358]

I've said it all along. Mikel must leave! We should get at least 15million for him.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

André seems to favour 4-2-1-2-1* so I don't see why there would be a combination of Mikel & Romeu after the defence, but I don't think Mikel (in André's eyes) is suited to the system we play which is why you'll see Essien-Romeu or Meireles-Romeu or Meireles-Essien etc. Not to mention Ramires in that fold too, it's a dilemma for him because we have too many defensive midfielders.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

I know it may fallbon deaf ears but mikel was not originally a dm. Yeah he's been able to hold it for some time but he isn't a natural DM!! Nigeria keep cryin about how we use him, but managers just blow them aside. Soo all this blame on him should just die down a bit.

[Blue Armour 4,289]

Mikel's more suited to the current low-tempo stand off style the manager's preferred since he finally got around to doing something about the defensive line faux pas. Romeu's better at closing down space and pushing on to the opposition when out of possession. Seems to me Romeu's in for a long stay if AVB's original blueprint will be out again next season.

Romeu(Pros)

-quick with the ball

-stabilizes the midfield as well as the defense.

-Find's space better than most of our players.

-Physical nature to his football.

-Tiki Taka influenced

-Creative Spark when moving forward

-Accurate with his passing

-Rare he loses the ball

-Very young as well as high potential

CONS

-Inexperienced in competitive matches and the nature of the PL

-Lack of Speed

Mikel(Pros)

- Defensive Nature

- Breaks up opposing attack

- Reliable in defending and closing space

CONS-

Error Prone

Consistent simple mistakes

Slow with ball

Slow with Transition

Lack of Attacking presence

Lack of Creativity

Why not play both if playing 4231. I know attack would be unheard of with these two on pitch but hey better than givin up 3 goals. And also why we no longer playin high defensive line?! Cahill has won mostvoffsides I believe in epl? And him and Luiz and ivan and cole are completely fast enough to cover! It's only with JT we can't do it. Hugh line against bolton would do wonders! They don't have quality to break it IMHO, but with this team they'll prob find a way.

That's the idea. Pairing them up means they can compensate for each others weaknesses (not completely, but certainly to an extent),and the team can utilize their strengths.

[hoha7 1]

Mikel was very bad against Everton. I'd rather play romeu and essien together.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I know it may fallbon deaf ears but mikel was not originally a dm. Yeah he's been able to hold it for some time but he isn't a natural DM!! Nigeria keep cryin about how we use him, but managers just blow them aside. Soo all this blame on him should just die down a bit.

Indeed. He was outstanding when he used to play AM, it was the reason we & united went head-to-head in battle to sign him. I think it was Mourinho who decided he would be a better DM and all managers after have actively accepted this. It's a shame because an attacking Mikel is exactly what we need right now, but I fear he's lost almost all those abilities now.

[blue out west 27]

Romeu(Pros)

-quick with the ball

-stabilizes the midfield as well as the defense.

-Find's space better than most of our players.

-Physical nature to his football.

-Tiki Taka influenced

-Creative Spark when moving forward

-Accurate with his passing

-Rare he loses the ball

-Very young as well as high potential

CONS

-Inexperienced in competitive matches and the nature of the PL

-Lack of Speed

Mikel(Pros)

- Defensive Nature

- Breaks up opposing attack

- Reliable in defending and closing space

CONS-

Error Prone

Consistent simple mistakes

Slow with ball

Slow with Transition

Lack of Attacking presence

Lack of Creativity

Romeu is NOT quick on the ball. He plays it slightly quicker and more direct because he doesn't set up the move, he delegates that to somebody else. Which is the right thing to do, and what I'm sure he's instructed to do, because he doesn't possess the vision and passing ability that Mikel does.

Its just laughable that Romeu is being lauded as a creative spark and even moreso as less error prone than Mikel. That's just out of touch, really.

Neither of them are creative factors in the final third, and rightly so, because they are defensive midfielders. Romeu and Mikel don't play the same way, and so they aren't given the exact same type of role, but its pretty close. Romeu is the superior tackler for sure, and has a much better natural aggression in defense (though it does get him out of position sometimes). Mikel is a guy who could play a deep lying playmaker role but instead plays more defensively because we have players like mata, lamps etc who are much better in that job but are lacking defensively.

They're both extremely strong and physical players who get stuck in no problem, so it makes sense why they both play almost all of their games @ DM. Time will tell if Romeu can round out his game with some better passing and learn to harness his aggression, but if he does I think he'll be a real solid player for us. For now he's still growing.

I look back at Mikel's career though and he had to learn to calm down, be more disciplined and it really helped him clean up a lot of errors in his game so no reason that Romeu can't do that too. He seems like a level headed young guy.

Indeed. He was outstanding when he used to play AM, it was the reason we & united went head-to-head in battle to sign him. I think it was Mourinho who decided he would be a better DM and all managers after have actively accepted this. It's a shame because an attacking Mikel is exactly what we need right now, but I fear he's lost almost all those abilities now.

In my opinion Mikel is better with fast creative players around him, when he did so well as an AM with the Nigerian youngsters he would hit fast runners with brilliant through balls but he's not really a creative guy. Much more of a precise passer who can maintain possession if the move starts to break down. We've seen him get forward from time to time this season and play a bit of that game.

If Essien was more of a natural DM than a box to box or central midfielder I don't think we ever would've made Mikel a career DM. I think its fair to say, and I don't wanna be harsh, but Essien is a level above Mikel and so you gotta pick the squad more around him than the Nigerian.

and we haven't had anyone else any good at a DM role since Maka and Mikel is young