Our best players are our problems

[Peace. 4,352]

1) And I agree about Mata. He is a wonderful, wonderful little player. But his final ball has been shown to be off at times. Especially recently. I don't know if he's tired, or just inconsistent. He is nowhere near as "precise" as some of the great players you have mentioned, including Silva. Valencia fans did "warn" us about this when he was being signed. They said things like while he is tremendously talented, he can be inconsistent, etc.

2) We need someone in the midfield who is able to provide some creativity because we definitely cannot just rely on Mata. He also has the tendency to disappear in games.

1) That isn't down to inconsistency. When you are tired, you lost your lucidity quickly. Consequently, when you aren't lucide while shooting or passing, your accuracy will dramatically suffer from it. It is crystal clear that Mata is being over used. And as I said in an other thread, this exhaustion he amasses week after week has a negative effect on his inspiration his finishing and his accuracy (of shot and pass).

2) The question is why does he have the tendency to disappear in games. First off, let's find out when he is noticeable during game. This is when he comes playing in the center to make the play. Though, this isn't his position on the field, so he can't play in the center every time, and he has often to go back where he is supposed to play. And the moments he disappears, it is when he comes back to his supposed position. So it isn't a problem of consistency, but a problem of position. Indeed, he doesn't have the attributs to be a good winger, thus to be noticeable on the wing. Furthermore, his opponents have the tendency to push him on the wing to shut him down.

[BLionheart 516]

I can't agree with the "best players main problem" part, because when I think about best players (not name reputations), I think about the players who have contributed the most... and that can't be a problem. Our problem still is our worst players.

My point is , those players who have contributed the most and became our best players week in week out , are in-consistent , and don't have the required class to be the best players of a leading European team.

So basically we need new best players , world-cass players and then our current best contributes will be good players to count on but not our best players.

[Tomo 21,751]

Sometimes its not a nessesity to have world class players in the side, Makelele aside who was renound as world class in our 2004/2005 side? at the time that is i know Robben, Drogba and Lamps have turned that way since.

The trick was we had players that worked for eachother and toed in line with the new era, and we need to do that again, we have the core players now we just need to build around that.

The trick in 2004 was we let go every player older than Makelele and replaced them with young hungry talent, we need to do the same again, so every one older than JT and Cole should be let go for the good of the future success. Lampard (legend but he is never going to accept a lesser role), Malouda, Hilario, Ferreira, andBosingwa should be let go and replaced by young, hungry, talent with everything to prove.

We don't need world class players nesseserily, like in 2004 we need a mi of young, hungry players with world class potential (Robben, Tiago) and talented players with good teamwork values (Duff) thats why i think Sessengon will be a good signing for us. Pacy player not world class but got good team work values, could compliment a Hazard type player that Duff did for Robben.

But basically next season we need to start building a spine of Cech/Courtious, Luiz, Ramiress, Mata, and build a formidable TEAM around it.

[Fernando 6,585]

No, our problem is that we keep firing managers after managers, without building an identity.

Our team does not knows what we play after Mourinho left.

Mourinho build this team in his image, and they knew what to play.

Then after you fire him, and bring all these different managers to try to implement their philosophy it creates nothing but a cluster fuck!

[Tomo 21,751]

We should have slowly started rebuilding after 2006/2007 in my opinion, not extreme changes but one or two players each season.

Royston Drenthe was one of the hottest properties in Europe back in 2007 (Madrid ruined him), he should have been the direct replacement for Robben and who knows with us he could have realised the potential he had back then and right now we would have had a fantastic winger.

We could have signed David Luiz as a 19 year old back then, loaned him into Portugal for a couple of season's then came back to us a ready made superstar, would have saved us £20m.

Then in 2008 instead of signing a 31 year old Deco we should have signed Modric, back then he would surely have choose us over Spurs.

A couple of those type of signing's each season we would have been in a great position right now.

We should also sell players at the right time, after the double winning season and the form some of the ageing players were in we could have got a lot more than we should have for those players. Cole (a 29 year old fullback) was subject of a £29m bid from Real Madrid, we should have snapped Jose's hand off and got a younger, hungrier Conentrao with that money.

Drogba was apparently wanted by City for £20m as a 33 year old, as much off a legend Drog is, it would have been a fansastic piece of buisness, Malouda given the form he was in we could have got £15m for, so thats £35m for 2 players over 30, we could have used that money to sign Aguero.

In future we need to do clever things like this toprevent us stagnating again.

[BLionheart 516]

Sometimes its not a nessesity to have world class players in the side, Makelele aside who was renound as world class in our 2004/2005 side? at the time that is i know Robben, Drogba and Lamps have turned that way since.

The trick was we had players that worked for eachother and toed in line with the new era, and we need to do that again, we have the core players now we just need to build around that.

The trick in 2004 was we let go every player older than Makelele and replaced them with young hungry talent, we need to do the same again, so every one older than JT and Cole should be let go for the good of the future success. Lampard (legend but he is never going to accept a lesser role), Malouda, Hilario, Ferreira, andBosingwa should be let go and replaced by young, hungry, talent with everything to prove.

We don't need world class players nesseserily, like in 2004 we need a mi of young, hungry players with world class potential (Robben, Tiago) and talented players with good teamwork values (Duff) thats why i think Sessengon will be a good signing for us. Pacy player not world class but got good team work values, could compliment a Hazard type player that Duff did for Robben.

But basically next season we need to start building a spine of Cech/Courtious, Luiz, Ramiress, Mata, and build a formidable TEAM around it.

Ramires shouldn't be one of the stars of the team , he is hardly an above average midfielder and his additions of pace and workrate don't make up for his abysmal touch , mis-passes , bad control , lack of strength , lack of consistency and bad positioning .

Juan Mata is the best player we have now but then again i don't think he is one of the best 20 players in the world , i would like one of those players or someone who has the potential to be between them to lead our front line . like Hazard , i know he is not upthere in the best 20 yet but he certainly has the potential to be there .

So i would like our spine to look more like this Cech/Courtious, Luiz, New midfielder(in the mold of modric) , New winger (like Hazard)

[Fernando 6,585]

We should have slowly started rebuilding after 2006/2007 in my opinion, not extreme changes but one or two players each season.

Royston Drenthe was one of the hottest properties in Europe back in 2007 (Madrid ruined him), he should have been the direct replacement for Robben and who knows with us he could have realised the potential he had back then and right now we would have had a fantastic winger.

We could have signed David Luiz as a 19 year old back then, loaned him into Portugal for a couple of season's then came back to us a ready made superstar, would have saved us £20m.

Then in 2008 instead of signing a 31 year old Deco we should have signed Modric, back then he would surely have choose us over Spurs.

A couple of those type of signing's each season we would have been in a great position right now.

We should also sell players at the right time, after the double winning season and the form some of the ageing players were in we could have got a lot more than we should have for those players. Cole (a 29 year old fullback) was subject of a £29m bid from Real Madrid, we should have snapped Jose's hand off and got a younger, hungrier Conentrao with that money.

Drogba was apparently wanted by City for £20m as a 33 year old, as much off a legend Drog is, it would have been a fansastic piece of buisness, Malouda given the form he was in we could have got £15m for, so thats £35m for 2 players over 30, we could have used that money to sign Aguero.

In future we need to do clever things like this toprevent us stagnating again.

Yes it makes sense but when I said A. Cole should be sold so we can buy a younger player or bring a youngster people said I was crazy!

They want to keep a player till they are like 33 plus something and have little resale value to then say we need to sell them.....

So it's much easier to say it now once it's done, then to say this player should be sold "at the right time"

[eldo 868]

DL is not world class eighter.He's far more inconsistent than any of our players. Don't be biased.

And you are wrong about Ramires, he did great on numerous counters, for example Valencia, Swansea ...

Bad positioning, wtf?

Funny how you talk about Mata not being top 20 and then you mention Modric who definitly isn't there and is few years older than Mata and already peaked. Check your stats again Mata has more assists in La Liga than Silva.

Can't believe this. I know that we don't have many great players, but don't be ungrateful we could be Liverpool with their garbage.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

This thread is brilliants, props to OP!

[zolayes 14,489]

We should have slowly started rebuilding after 2006/2007 in my opinion, not extreme changes but one or two players each season.

Royston Drenthe was one of the hottest properties in Europe back in 2007 (Madrid ruined him), he should have been the direct replacement for Robben and who knows with us he could have realised the potential he had back then and right now we would have had a fantastic winger.

We could have signed David Luiz as a 19 year old back then, loaned him into Portugal for a couple of season's then came back to us a ready made superstar, would have saved us £20m.

Then in 2008 instead of signing a 31 year old Deco we should have signed Modric, back then he would surely have choose us over Spurs.

A couple of those type of signing's each season we would have been in a great position right now.

We should also sell players at the right time, after the double winning season and the form some of the ageing players were in we could have got a lot more than we should have for those players. Cole (a 29 year old fullback) was subject of a £29m bid from Real Madrid, we should have snapped Jose's hand off and got a younger, hungrier Conentrao with that money.

Drogba was apparently wanted by City for £20m as a 33 year old, as much off a legend Drog is, it would have been a fansastic piece of buisness, Malouda given the form he was in we could have got £15m for, so thats £35m for 2 players over 30, we could have used that money to sign Aguero.

In future we need to do clever things like this toprevent us stagnating again.

youre opening sentence is exactly what we should have done , The old Liverpool method when you are on top keep refereshing

the squad.

[TacticalBlues 2,817]

Agreed. David Luiz is world-class. I think a winger, in the mould of Hazard is crucial. Mata can then play the xavi role and Hazard can bomb down the wings, providing Torres/Lukaku/Drogba with service they need. That is potentially one of the most lethal attacks in the world. I do think that we do have some potential world-class youths also. McEachran, Kakuta, Piazon, Feruz, Lukaku, Davilla. And unlike Liverpool we (thank god) have a manager who isn't going for great Swansea players, the Charlie Adams of this world, but the Hazards, Hulks, Cesar Azpilicuetas, and Lucas's. Like you said the critical thing is getting those world-class players to replace the old-guard, I hope AVB does too. But neverthless I do think we have a great crop of youngsters coming up and if we can slowly intergrate them into the first team, we all know that the likes of Mceachran could unlock doors that only the very best can.

[eldo 868]

Agreed. David Luiz is world-class.

No he's not.

[Tomo 21,751]

It is amazing the power the media has to even turn our opinions of DL4.

If the media kept bleting on about Zola being a Chelsea flop, some would buy it hook line and sinker and call him it

[TacticalBlues 2,817]

No he's not.

The media got you too then lol. Kidding, he isn't the best like Thiago Silva but has all the attributes to be the best/exciting defender in the world. I mean what other defender came into the league and won player of the month in there first month. It took Vidic about 2 seasons too adjust and pique never could, still those two are regarded as two of the very best. (Even though i don't rate Pique their personally) David is so skilled, it's an abolsoute joy too see him play. When he finds the acceptable balance for the media maybe then some people will truly see.

[BLionheart 516]

DL is not world class eighter.He's far more inconsistent than any of our players. Don't be biased.

And you are wrong about Ramires, he did great on numerous counters, for example Valencia, Swansea ...

Bad positioning, wtf?

Funny how you talk about Mata not being top 20 and then you mention Modric who definitly isn't there and is few years older than Mata and already peaked. Check your stats again Mata has more assists in La Liga than Silva.

Can't believe this. I know that we don't have many great players, but don't be ungrateful we could be Liverpool with their garbage.

A great world-class forward = one of the best 20 players in the world. (that is why Mata ain't one).

A great world class midfielder not necessarily = one of the best 20 players in the world. (Modric is definitely one of the best midfielders in this world) .