🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Gary Cahill

[didierforever 7,349]

so now spain and brazil are winning international tournaments because of luiz and pique??? it has nothing to do with the likes of xavi, iniesta, xabi, mata, silva, fiberglass ALL playing in the same team!!!

one has to take into consideration the type of plays those teams involve compared to ours. jose is not trying to do a BARCA here. he wants 10 men behind the ball when we are not in possession which is totally different to what barca and spain have done with the likes of pique to win those tournaments.

also please take into consideration the midfield of those team. we have a 35 year old CAM playing as a DM whereas those teams have the best CMs and DMs available in the world right now. hence the trophies.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

thats pretty sad and does not answer the question

No, but it asks the question of how good Luiz's positional discipline and overall awareness is, doesn't it?

[Tomo 21,751]

And regarding Luiz's aggresivity and whatnot....well, that is simply needed sometimes. A CB who always tries to play safe wont make those neccessary interceptions to stop a counter from getting more dangerous.

Spot on.

so now spain and brazil are winning international tournaments because of luiz and pique??? it has nothing to do with the likes of xavi, iniesta, xabi, mata, silva, fiberglass ALL playing in the same team!!!

one has to take into consideration the type of plays those teams involve compared to ours. jose is not trying to do a BARCA here. he wants 10 men behind the ball when we are not in possession which is totally different to what barca and spain have done with the likes of pique to win those tournaments.

also please take into consideration the midfield of those team. we have a 35 year old CAM playing as a DM whereas those teams have the best CMs and DMs available in the world right now. hence the trophies.

It's not just with Spain tho, it's been happening for years. Lucio before them two and Blanc in 98 while the likes of Tony Adams were going home at the last 8 stage.

Jose has clearly stated he wants a high pressing team, as Luiz is a lot more suitable to that type of football than Cahiill is

[lucio 5,418]

No, but it asks the question of how good Luiz's positional discipline and overall awareness is, doesn't it?

i never said it was good. just saying cahills isnt good

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Spot on.

It's not just with Spain tho, it's been happening for years. Lucio before them two and Blanc in 98 while the likes of Tony Adams were going home at the last 8 stage.

Jose has clearly stated he wants a high pressing team, as Luiz is a lot more suitable to that type of football than Cahiill is

Which is why Luiz started the last two games. Oh...

Look I thoroughly respect your opinions Tomo, LuicioBrazil and Barbara. But I will withdraw from this debate because my mind won't be changed, and I fear this argument is just going to be a circular one of "Luiz can do this" and "Cahill can do that", etc. etc. Luiz just doesn't do it for me as a football fan. Sure, he's capable of the majestic, but he is equally as able to produce the ultimate in brain-farts. Cahill is a "safe" defender, and that's the type of centre-back that I like

[didierforever 7,349]

Well the way you put it is just wierd. For me personally, I dont give a damn what we bought a player for. What matters to me is performance.

I agree, Cahill for 7m was a fantastic deal. But Luiz is that special kind of CB and that is why we bought him. He has something special and his vision and reading of the game is superb. Like I said, Cahill is the average CB and probably always will be whereas Luiz offers something else. I think Luiz is an absolute great option to put beside someone like Terry. They complement eachother really well.

And regarding Luiz's aggresivity and whatnot....well, that is simply needed sometimes. A CB who always tries to play safe wont make those neccessary interceptions to stop a counter from getting more dangerous.

The only thing I give to Cahill is that he is more diciplined than Luiz, but Luiz to me is a superiour defender and player.

if u actually are considering performances then cahill trumps luiz in that.

we have looked the most comfortable with JT and GC at the back. irrespective of GC's limitations and constraints compared to luiz, we have looked the strongest and the least vunerable with the JT-GC combo.

again, this is not a discussion about who is better between GC and DL (cos i never once have said anything to compare those 2 indivildually). it is about who suits us the most and makes us a better team. for me, the answer has to be GC.

also talking about complementing and things, lets take a look at the 3 combos at the back

GC-JT : P6 W5 D1

GC-DL: P3 W0 D2 L1 (i have considered munich as a draw since the score was 2-2)

DL-JT: P5 W3 D1 L1

goes on to show which has been our best defensive pair.

[didierforever 7,349]

Spot on.

It's not just with Spain tho, it's been happening for years. Lucio before them two and Blanc in 98 while the likes of Tony Adams were going home at the last 8 stage.

Jose has clearly stated he wants a high pressing team, as Luiz is a lot more suitable to that type of football than Cahiill is

again lucio winning the WC had nothing to do with the likes of ronaldo, rivaldo, ronaldinho in the team and the fact that brazil were levels over other teams in attack.

if u want a team which actually won international tournament thru defenders then name italy and cannavaro. solid CBs.

[Tomo 21,751]

if u actually are considering performances then cahill trumps luiz in that.

we have looked the most comfortable with JT and GC at the back. irrespective of GC's limitations and constraints compared to luiz, we have looked the strongest and the least vunerable with the JT-GC combo.

again, this is not a discussion about who is better between GC and DL (cos i never once have said anything to compare those 2 indivildually). it is about who suits us the most and makes us a better team. for me, the answer has to be GC.

also talking about complementing and things, lets take a look at the 3 combos at the back

GC-JT : P6 W5 D1

GC-DL: P3 W0 D2 L1 (i have considered munich as a draw since the score was 2-2)

DL-JT: P5 W3 D1 L1

goes on to show which has been our best defensive pair.

Our best back 4 for recent years has been Ivan-Luiz-Terry-Cole statistically, but that's for another argument.

I think we can all agree that those stats above anything shows how important JT still is and that the Cahill and Luiz partnership is one of the worst we have had for a long time, what's more annoying is on paper those two should compliment each other perfectly.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

No, but it asks the question of how good Luiz's positional discipline and overall awareness is, doesn't it?

One of the most stuipid posts Ive read. Its clearly a mistake caused by poor communication, and as far as we know it could be Cech's mistake alot more than Luiz's.

Has nothing to do with what we're discussing. You are comparing apples and oranges.

if u actually are considering performances then cahill trumps luiz in that.

we have looked the most comfortable with JT and GC at the back. irrespective of GC's limitations and constraints compared to luiz, we have looked the strongest and the least vunerable with the JT-GC combo.

again, this is not a discussion about who is better between GC and DL (cos i never once have said anything to compare those 2 indivildually). it is about who suits us the most and makes us a better team. for me, the answer has to be GC.

also talking about complementing and things, lets take a look at the 3 combos at the back

GC-JT : P6 W5 D1

GC-DL: P3 W0 D2 L1 (i have considered munich as a draw since the score was 2-2)

DL-JT: P5 W3 D1 L1

goes on to show which has been our best defensive pair.

Are you serious? That has to be the most lame way to use "statistics" I have EVER seen.Come on dude...

So because according to the statistics you posted above, we've won more games when we played with Cahill-Terry than with Luiz-Terry that proves which is our best CB pair?

Do you actually believe in what you just wrote?

[didierforever 7,349]

One of the most stuipid posts Ive read. Its clearly a mistake caused by poor communication, and as far as we know it could be Cech's mistake alot more than Luiz's.

Has nothing to do with what we're discussing. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Are you serious? That has to be the most lame way to use "statistics" I have EVER seen.Come on dude...

So because according to the statistics you posted above, we've won more games when we played with Cahill-Terry than with Luiz-Terry that proves which is our best CB pair?

Do you actually believe in what you just wrote?

u dont accept that luiz is error-prone. u dont accept that cahill-JT has been our best and most comfortable pair this season and now u have ridiculed stats which show that we have played best with cahill-JT.

i am out of ways to get my point across.

the only other way is to take a cheap shot and say that jose played the cahill-JT combo over luiz-JT against a team that he even in his post-match interview said "had the strongest squad in PL". now, that makes me believe in what i write and what i am thinking.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

u dont accept that luiz is error-prone. u dont accept that cahill-JT has been our best and most comfortable pair this season and now u have ridiculed stats which show that we have played best with cahill-JT.

i am out of ways to get my point across.

the only other way is to take a cheap shot and say that jose played the cahill-JT combo over luiz-JT against a team that he even in his post-match interview said "had the strongest squad in PL". now, that makes me believe in what i write and what i am thinking.

Ok, let me bring down this to a level that a 10 year old should understand.

Assume we play 5 games with Luiz-Terry and 5 games with Cahill-Terry.

In the games with Cahill-Terry Torres scores a hattrick every game.

In the games with Luiz-Terry we struggle with scoring goals.

This results in:

Cahill-Terry: 5 games played 5 wins

Terry-Luiz: 5 games played 2 wins

What you are saying is that this would prove that Cahill-Terry is our best CB pair.

Im saying that this is a really stuipid and false way to use statistics.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

One of the most stuipid posts Ive read.

I'm sorry for being so stuipid, you pompous, sanctimonious tool. How does your own arsehole taste, because you're so far up it!

[didierforever 7,349]

Ok, let me bring down this to a level that a 10 year old should understand.

Assume we play 5 games with Luiz-Terry and 5 games with Cahill-Terry.

In the games with Cahill-Terry Torres scores a hattrick every game.

In the games with Luiz-Terry we struggle with scoring goals.

This results in:

Cahill-Terry: 5 games played 5 wins

Terry-Luiz: 5 games played 2 wins

What you are saying is that this would prove that Cahill-Terry is our best CB pair.

Im saying that this is a really stuipid and false way to use statistics.

let me bring it down to the level that an idiot would understand.

everton match - luiz's hopeless defensive error changes the whole complexion of a match that we were so fully dominating and controlling. after that everton parked the bus and we found it very-very difficult to break them

cardiff match - luiz's childish display puts us in trouble once again. hence we were chasing the match again.

with GC-JT, the opposition dont get the charity that luiz gives. also with cahill-JT we have so far conceded 2 goals in 6 matches (hull, villa, united, fulham, schalke and city) and both the goals have been phenomenol strikes by the striker. the benteke shot was absolutely brilliant and aguero's too even though cech should have stopped the latter one. this makes us more difficult to play against cos teams need a moment of magic to score rather than getting goals in free-fund.

[lucio 5,418]

let me bring it down to the level that an idiot would understand.

everton match - luiz's hopeless defensive error changes the whole complexion of a match that we were so fully dominating and controlling. after that everton parked the bus and we found it very-very difficult to break them

cardiff match - luiz's childish display puts us in trouble once again. hence we were chasing the match again.

with GC-JT, the opposition dont get the charity that luiz gives. also with cahill-JT we have so far conceded 2 goals in 6 matches (hull, villa, united, fulham, schalke and city) and both the goals have been phenomenol strikes by the striker. the benteke shot was absolutely brilliant and aguero's too even though cech should have stopped the latter one. this makes us more difficult to play against cos teams need a moment of magic to score rather than getting goals in free-fund.

the moment of magic would of been offside if cahill defended properly.

[Jase 43,479]

I wound't call them cheap, they are wise. They just spunked over 40 mill on someone who is worth every penny.

Maybe it was worthy. Maybe not. But Arsenal only splashed that 40m+ for Ozil because they were under pressure to do so. Otherwise, they wouldn't have done so. And if they are really wise, they would have spent some money in the last few years to get top quality players but they haven't and resulting in their 8 years of winning nothing.

And the difference between what we paid for Cahill and Arsenal refusing to pay the price Bolton asked for was only 1m or if not 2-3m at most. It's not like it was 10m, 20m or 30m. Also, Cahill wasn't the only transfer in recent years that Arsenal have refused to pay just that extra bit to buy in players to bolster their squad. Mata was probably another example in this case.

[didierforever 7,349]

the moment of magic would of been offside if cahill defended properly.

to give credit where its due, aguero's run was marvellous. he was offside, but comes onside and then dashes for the ball. and then he has acute angle shot at cech's near post. but yes,u r right, it was all cahill's mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Barbara 15,149]

uh... my whole post was just to say where those two flawed players offer liabilities for us... I started it saying that was my view and jumped into the convo.

I do think a player that has been amazing for us last season proved his 24m price tag, and I agree Cahill comparatively played beyond is 7m.

David Luiz has a problem that needs fixing otherwise he'll never fulfill completely the potential he has - or as has been put here, he'll never justify his price tag. It doesn't change the fact he's a better player than Cahill and I feel like Cahill failed in more goals last season than Luiz did. I don't have stats, and I won't bother looking for them, but that's how I feel.

I agree with Alex that Cahill is more disciplined, still when he's in the lineup against a team that has good strikers, I'm always biting my lip in apprehension...

Also I thought the whole point of the discussion was to say who should play - which imo is Luiz - but it seems like it span into something else. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was really just stating what I think, not what is written in rock as the the truth.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

uh... my whole post was just to say where those two flawed players offer liabilities for us... I started it saying that was my view and jumped into the convo.

I do think a player that has been amazing for us last season proved his 24m price tag, and I agree Cahill comparatively played beyond is 7m.

David Luiz has a problem that needs fixing otherwise he'll never fulfill completely the potential he has - or as has been put here, he'll never justify his price tag. It doesn't change the fact he's a better player than Cahill and I feel like Cahill failed in more goals last season than Luiz did. I don't have stats, and I won't bother looking for them, but that's how I feel.

I agree with Alex that Cahill is more disciplined, still when he's in the lineup against a team that has good strikers, I'm always biting my lip in apprehension...

Also I thought the whole point of the discussion was to say who should play - which imo is Luiz - but it seems like it span into something else. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was really just stating what I think, not what is written in rock as the the truth.

You don't offend anyone, Barbara, because you post excellent analyses, backed up with statistical facts. There are some members, however, who have to condescend and patronise instead of having the maturity to agree to disagree. It's refreshing to see people like yourself make actual arguments, but sadly some idiots remain intent on their holier-than-thou portrayals!

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I'm sorry for being so stuipid, you pompous, sanctimonious tool. How does your own arsehole taste, because you're so far up it!

Very on-topic and mature reply from a person who administrates these forums.

Yes, I thought your post was stuipid but at least I expain why. Because it had NOTHING to do with what we were discussing and that GIF didnt prove anything.

let me bring it down to the level that an idiot would understand.

everton match - luiz's hopeless defensive error changes the whole complexion of a match that we were so fully dominating and controlling. after that everton parked the bus and we found it very-very difficult to break them

cardiff match - luiz's childish display puts us in trouble once again. hence we were chasing the match again.

with GC-JT, the opposition dont get the charity that luiz gives. also with cahill-JT we have so far conceded 2 goals in 6 matches (hull, villa, united, fulham, schalke and city) and both the goals have been phenomenol strikes by the striker. the benteke shot was absolutely brilliant and aguero's too even though cech should have stopped the latter one. this makes us more difficult to play against cos teams need a moment of magic to score rather than getting goals in free-fund.

This isnt anything personal, but anyone who believes in comparing 2 games and drawing a conclusion like that out of it, OR like you did above, just looking at win statistics and drawing the conclusion that the CB pair we've won most games with this season is the best, THAT is stuipid and only an idiot would believe that.

[didierforever 7,349]

Yes, I thought your post was stuipid but at least I expain why. Because it had NOTHING to do with what we were discussing and that GIF didnt prove anything.

This isnt anything personal, but anyone who believes in comparing 2 games and drawing a conclusion like that out of it, OR like you did above, just looking at win statistics and drawing the conclusion that the CB pair we've won most games with this season is the best, THAT is stuipid and only an idiot would believe that.

very true. we should not look at the stats, or the own personal mistakes of luiz or actually watch the game and see for ourselves how we have been playing with a particular player on and off the field but we should just take your word for it that luiz is better.

thats right!!!

forget about what all the pundits are saying and forget about what most of the people on the forum (despite admitting that luiz is better than cahill) want cahill to partner JT and also we should forget that JOSE-FUCKING-MOURINHO the coach who has won 2 CLs and domestic league in portugal, italy, spain and england, preferred GC over DL in probably the match that was between the no.1 and no.2 team in PL. but we should all listen to YOU NAME IT. cos he knows it all.

what i wanted to get across may have been said in a very pedestrian way, but on the other hand, u dont have an argument except for exclaiming, "REALLY!!!", "HE IS WORTH 35MIL!!!" "I CANT BELIEVE U ACTUALLY THINK SO"... comeback when u actually HAVE an argument to give.