I have completely given up on our youth system.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Welbeck and Cleverly have both played a high amount of games already this season and they are youth products. Liverpool have Martin Kelly who has broken through and Jack Robinson will break through too no doubt. Arsenal have Wilshire and Gibbs who are both first team players. Man City even have Micha Richards lol ! Spurs have Kyle walker. 1 homegrown player makes a world of difference, it is a sticker on the club saying made in Chelsea. We are the only top side without 1 homegrown player who has not made a break through in the last 3 years. Why are all these teams breaking youth talents through and we are failing why ?? we have spent millions on our academy to get fuck all and it winds me up. Liverpool have not spent a quarter of the money we have spent and Jack Robinson at the age of 17 has played more first team games for Liverpool then Bertrand who has experience has played at 22 !

And then Liverpool bought José Enrique & Sebastián Coatés. Arsenal have Kieran Gibbs, yes, but then they bought André Santos who's kept out Gibbs since then. Richards came through, yes, but because he's an extraordinary talent & City had no RB. He filled in & excelled there, took his opportunity.

You're right about Cleverly & Welbeck, but remember they came through after their successful loan spells. Had they been inside the academy I don't think they'd have got the look in they wanted.

That's where it comes to, loan spells. Sturridge (granted he's not an academy player) went on loan (after we groomed him in the reserve squad), impressed, and came back into our first squad! McEachran will go on loan, so we hope, and if he works hard and is utilised by the manager Villas-Boas will use him. Bertrand is unfortunate because Ashley Cole has been very, very, reliable in the last 3-4seasons. It's unfortunate he didn't get a CL place because in Genk, Cole could've been rested. But Villas-Boas told Bertrand, he wouldn't go out on loan again because he was Cole's understudy. Hence the contract extension in January.

I share you're frustrations with lack of homegrown talent & academy talent, believe me. But I also do believe we're very close to giving a promotion to the likes of Bertrand & McEachran.

[Wilson 358]

All I am gonna say is Bertrand, Romeu, Josh, Sturridge and Kakuta are the ones that should get first team action. Yet it won't happen, that's understandable though if you reflect on how we are playing just now.

[zolayes 14,489]

All I am gonna say is Bertrand, Romeu, Josh, Sturridge and Kakuta are the ones that should get first team action. Yet it won't happen, that's understandable though if you reflect on how we are playing just now.

kakuta is the biggest disappointment

[Madmax 9,219]

I thought about this the year after we won the double and there's no easy solution to the problem.

Taking into account the recent history of the club and factoring in the ambitions we have about the future, youth integration was always going to take a backseat. With Roman's investment it was obvious that the emphasis would be on your superstar players who'd guarantee silverware, enabling the benefactor to get immediate bang for his buck. Even City, who have one of the best academies in England for ages now, put that resource on the backburner so to speak once they found themselves swimming in petrodollars. So it's not like we're an isolated case.

Then the tedious chopping-changing started and it once again dashed hopes for more opportunities for the young 'uns. Managers aren't going to experiment while their heads are on the chopping block. Everything stems from stability, you see. It's all good to play kids when you're winning things and everything's rosy. But not winning the league for 3 years between 06 and 09 made things difficult, it's no coincidence we saw 4 managers come and go while virtually the same squad of players played week in week out.

There's also another dimension to this in that there's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario here. Are the players coming through from the academy good enough to playing a big role in a side as big as Chelsea? What was that stat about the number of international captains in our squad a couple of years ago? 5 or 6 of them. You can imagine what sort of quality the little ones are competing with, just to get a little toe anywhere near the team. You have to be ridiculously talented and committed to hope of coming through here. It's not as simple as at other clubs. Of course, that is not to say that academy players cannot threaten the ones on the bench. The kind of money going out to Belletti or Ferreira or Kalou for example is not productive because those players hardly play an awful lot. Would someone like a Cork or Sinclair or Kakuta or Bertrand do better than those pricey intl players? Maybe. Maybe not. But it wouldn't be for the lack of trying. Chances at this level at that age are hard to come by, they'd grab theirs with both hands. And it makes better financial sense too.

Then there is the issue about the fans. I notice how this thread has sprung up after the week we've had. You want youth representation, I want youth representation. But it's not as easy as saying 'Right, off with this lot, let's get the youngsters in.' There's a time, a place. The Arsenal game sent the forum into a meltdown. You have to have patience, but football fans are a fickle lot. It's just as plausible for the people who run down managers for not playing youth to turn against those very people to turn the heat on the decision to play them, if it backfires. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And it's not about us here sitting behind a screen having a moan. Can you imagine what sort of impact it would have on an 18 year old to have 50000 odd people jeering/abusing him for a mistake he committed that led to crucial dropped points? There's tremendous pressure at places like Chelsea, it's a world away from somewhere like Arsenal who're allowed to go 6 years without a trophy.

The crux of the matter is this - if we're serious about youth, we as a club need to sit down with the manager and tell him that we're absolutely fine with 1, 2, even 4 or 5 years without much success trophy wise, if it means we could see a team after that period with a largely homegrown player base. Not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it's certainly more difficult.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I thought about this the year after we won the double and there's no easy solution to the problem.

Taking into account the recent history of the club and factoring in the ambitions we have about the future, youth integration was always going to take a backseat. With Roman's investment it was obvious that the emphasis would be on your superstar players who'd guarantee silverware, enabling the benefactor to get immediate bang for his buck. Even City, who have one of the best academies in England for ages now, put that resource on the backburner so to speak once they found themselves swimming in petrodollars. So it's not like we're an isolated case.

Then the tedious chopping-changing started and it once again dashed hopes for more opportunities for the young 'uns. Managers aren't going to experiment while their heads are on the chopping block. Everything stems from stability, you see. It's all good to play kids when you're winning things and everything's rosy. But not winning the league for 3 years between 06 and 09 made things difficult, it's no coincidence we saw 4 managers come and go while virtually the same squad of players played week in week out.

There's also another dimension to this in that there's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario here. Are the players coming through from the academy good enough to playing a big role in a side as big as Chelsea? What was that stat about the number of international captains in our squad a couple of years ago? 5 or 6 of them. You can imagine what sort of quality the little ones are competing with, just to get a little toe anywhere near the team. You have to be ridiculously talented and committed to hope of coming through here. It's not as simple as at other clubs. Of course, that is not to say that academy players cannot threaten the ones on the bench. The kind of money going out to Belletti or Ferreira or Kalou for example is not productive because those players hardly play an awful lot. Would someone like a Cork or Sinclair or Kakuta or Bertrand do better than those pricey intl players? Maybe. Maybe not. But it wouldn't be for the lack of trying. Chances at this level at that age are hard to come by, they'd grab theirs with both hands. And it makes better financial sense too.

Then there is the issue about the fans. I notice how this thread has sprung up after the week we've had. You want youth representation, I want youth representation. But it's not as easy as saying 'Right, off with this lot, let's get the youngsters in.' There's a time, a place. The Arsenal game sent the forum into a meltdown. You have to have patience, but football fans are a fickle lot. It's just as plausible for the people who run down managers for not playing youth to turn against those very people to turn the heat on the decision to play them, if it backfires. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And it's not about us here sitting behind a screen having a moan. Can you imagine what sort of impact it would have on an 18 year old to have 50000 odd people jeering/abusing him for a mistake he committed that led to crucial dropped points? There's tremendous pressure at places like Chelsea, it's a world away from somewhere like Arsenal who're allowed to go 6 years without a trophy.

The crux of the matter is this - if we're serious about youth, we as a club need to sit down with the manager and tell him that we're absolutely fine with 1, 2, even 4 or 5 years without much success trophy wise, if it means we could see a team after that period with a largely homegrown player base. Not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but it's certainly more difficult.

Post of the week.

[Peace. 4,352]

True point. His composure and all somewhat compensate, but he really does need to bulk up. It's why Romeu is being played more often.

Do you really think Josh has to make some bodybuilding to play against.... Genk, with no disrespect ?

[Tomo 21,681]

Welbeck and Cleverly have both played a high amount of games already this season and they are youth products. Liverpool have Martin Kelly who has broken through and Jack Robinson will break through too no doubt. Arsenal have Wilshire and Gibbs who are both first team players. Man City even have Micha Richards lol ! Spurs have Kyle walker. 1 homegrown player makes a world of difference, it is a sticker on the club saying made in Chelsea. We are the only top side without 1 homegrown player who has not made a break through in the last 3 years. Why are all these teams breaking youth talents through and we are failing why ?? we have spent millions on our academy to get fuck all and it winds me up. Liverpool have not spent a quarter of the money we have spent and Jack Robinson at the age of 17 has played more first team games for Liverpool then Bertrand who has experience has played at 22 !

You are right about Cleverly and Welbeck but they are both in their 20's, when they were 18 Welbeck was a spare part and Clevely was not involved at-all.

Even so they spent a year out on loan before Fergie trusted them he didn't just throw them in at random.

[lentherussian 86]

terrefic post from madmax but i also take a point from tomo's. I dont think its that hard to be including one and playing him even as a sub on a regular basis. I also think the point a few european managers have made about putting the top sides reserves at lower level league football would be so beneficial to our youth players. The last ten years has seen reserve football become such a mis match on how clubs approach it that it really has become a worthless exercise. I dont know the average age of our youth team but i can imagine its very young, 16/17? coming up against internationals some weeks and as late just gettin hammered. They tend not to include lukaku, josh, romeu, bertrand all that much whilst letting kalas, kakuta, bruma all go on loan elsewhere, some even playin in differenet leagues. We dont rehabilatate recovering players in reserves anymore or out of form players like teams used to. The loaning system very rarely improves these players, i remember brendan rodgers saying when he was at cfc jose didnt want to loan the young players out because the teams they had to go to didnt play the right football in order 4 them to develop properly. Which leaves talented kinds in limbo Like madmax said it takes a brave if not stupid man to bring a 17yr old in for international captain. Therefore your left with the problem of where to put them? If we had our reserves in league 2 for instance it would be a great experience for them and a natural progression to work your way up. I hate to see whats happening to josh because it is what weve all seen so many times and althouh hes still 18 hes also ambitious and must get down. Against fulham he started great and must have loved it, then we go down to 10 men and despite hes ability to look after the ball gets dragged. Against a stronger everton, he looked nervy but had very good flashes and came out 2nd half well then 10 men and subbed again, leaving kalou and malouda still on who gave the ball away for fun all night. He didnt loan him to wigan when he could, he hardly plays reserves and watches the 1st team. Dont see how thats improving anyone. Be great to see him loaned to swansea in jan. Then to make it worse we sign a 20 yr old from barca who looks a potential star in his position. Althouh i think romeu looks the real deal i wish we hadnt signed him.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Do you really think Josh has to make some bodybuilding to play against.... Genk, with no disrespect ?

Nah, course not. That was a let down from AVB imo.

But generally he does need to bulk up a bit. Not to be a heavyweight boxer, but just enough to not get out-muscled by opposing teams.

[Badboy 1,526]

AVB will be sacked at the end of the season, at that point a new manager will come in and then the same shit all over again. The new manager will know very little about Josh or Ryan then he will sign Modric then Josh will be fucked again. We are going round in circles and its not nice. I ma not fighting for these young players to bench the likes of A.cole but at least give A.cole a rest in some premier league games and play Ryan at left back.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

You are right about Cleverly and Welbeck but they are both in their 20's, when they were 18 Welbeck was a spare part and Clevely was not involved at-all.

Even so they spent a year out on loan before Fergie trusted them he didn't just throw them in at random.

Exactly..I think a lot of people on this forum are panicking just because Man Utd and Arsenal have begun to integrate Welbeck, Cleverly and Wilshere with their first teams..

Integrating youth has never been an issue this season with Sturridge and Romeu getting their chances. The disadvantage that Josh has is his age. Of course one might ask how Lukaku often gets the nod over Josh despite being the same age, but that has more to do with AVB's tactics for the game...

The bottom line is you would expect more chances for the likes of McEachran and Bertrand. The former has been merely unlucky as the manager himself was expecting more playing time for him this season. As for the second its because Ashley Cole is a key component of Chelsea's attack, and is always picked for the must-win games (which basically includes all the epl and champions league games played so far)

[Peace. 4,352]

Nah, course not. That was a let down from AVB imo.

But generally he does need to bulk up a bit. Not to be a heavyweight boxer, but just enough to not get out-muscled by opposing teams.

Fair point. Though, he has a lot more strenght than it does look and than people give him credit.

Beside, it does not excuse Villas-Boas to do not play him against the likes of Genk, Swansea and Norwich.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Bertrand should be getting much more playing time than he does. He is not 18 like McEachran, he's a good solid left back with a lot of games behind him and a lot of experience. Cole is the obvious first choice but I don't see why AVB rotates everybody (even JT) except him... :huh:

[Kojo 4,676]

Bertrand should be getting much more playing time than he does. He is not 18 like McEachran, he's a good solid left back with a lot of games behind him and a lot of experience. Cole is the obvious first choice but I don't see why AVB rotates everybody (even JT) except him... :huh:

Yes it's really stupid, if McEachran was at Man United, he would be on loan or ferguson would have him playing games now and again, we don't, i find it scary that we lack options in midfield, a midfield with 3 spaces, and with currently only 4 midfielders at the moment, McEachran has rarely played.

[Liquidator 5,176]

I think we need to be patient with the youth system. We may not have produced much since John Terry but we have only recently become a 'world class' academy when Abramovich rebuilt all of the facilities for the youth team. OK so our Youth team results have not been great so far this season but that is just 2 years worth of players aged 16-18. For all we know, we could have some incredible 11 year olds in our youth system.

Barcelona have had their La Masia academy for years and consequently they have been able to introduce their footballing culture to everyone who plays for them and find the best ways to teach and nurture players. This means that they are more successful, which means that more players break into the first team, which means that their academy system gains reputation and more players will end up joining. I imagine that Abramovich wants something similar to La Masia but that will not happen overnight. We will not produce a world class player or two every year because it is just not possible with an academy of our size at the moment. As Barcelona have grown they have been able to produce more world class players, all in one generation (Iniesta, Xavi, Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Pedro etc etc) because of the large pool of talent that they have at their disposal.

As for giving the youth players a chance, I dont think that giving them the odd 60 minutes in the FA and Carling Cup and 5 minutes at the end of a league game will do them much good. Josh and Bertrand have looked just as good as Lampard and Cole this season and they should be trusted. If they make mistakes on the pitch due to lack of experience then that is fine because they will learn from it. They will not learn not to do something if they are sitting on the subs bench.

And if Villas Boas is going to send McEachran and Bertrand out on loan, dont bring in Modric and a new left back because then the younger players will never get to prove themselves in the blue shirt