Praise for Nando

[Badboy 1,526]

I must say that you are a bit excessive, we all know that Torres is not Drogba. But Torres does not want the team to catch the moon, you put a lot of strikers in front of a team with no movement and with no support and this lot of strikers will struggle. And these strikers will leave their position upfront

I can tell you an example of that, Anelka with France was blamed for leaving his upfront position whereas he had no good balls and no player able to give him.

Torres only needs a support player like Mata, and like many others strikers... I don't really see that as a playing style exclusively tailored for one player...

Torres in his last months at Liverpool became static and less usefull in the play... When he is in good condition he is a really good striker, present in the play and able to call the ball on the entire width... When he is full of energy he can make the difference on short distances so he can be usefull in all the last tier of the pitch. He really isn't just a counter attacking striker or a goal hunter very poor with the ball à la Javier Hernandez or Pippo Inzaghi

He is not a team player and he just needs the whole team focusing on him or its a waste. You have got to play counter attack with Torres or there is no point. He can not play in a team that dominates possession, he is a counter attacking player and that is it. He is useless in all parts of the game except for the ODD dribble and exploiting space which admittedly he is good at.

[manpe 10,861]

He is not a team player and he just needs the whole team focusing on him or its a waste. You have got to play counter attack with Torres or there is no point. He can not play in a team that dominates possession, he is a counter attacking player and that is it. He is useless in all parts of the game except for the ODD dribble and exploiting space which admittedly he is good at.

I disagree... Hopefully Torres won't make me eat my words

[SeB 1,281]

But Ramires is also a great counter-attacking player, but it does not prevent him to be usefull in another domains such as the defensive aspect, cut the transmissions and cover the runs upfield of Bosingwa.

Torres is perfectly able to play relays on the width of the pitch, he is a mobile striker and at the top of his form one of the most complete #9 in the world, he is a clinical finisher and he is able to score smart goals that can bring an extra 10 or 15 points in a season when he unlocks a situation, thing we lacked last season, our struggles in the box in front of the goal were obvious at several moments such as at Wolverhampton.

He is a generous striker and can really be the first player to rely on in the new philosophy to press higher and smarter. Kevin Davies would agree with me, strikers are the first defenders on the pitch

So yes, some people may say that for £58m we can expect more, but that fee was interdependent of the situation where we did buy Torres. I don't especially see him as a player with a limited palette or playing style, he is not Drogba but he is not totally useless. The 15-20 goals he will score this season (and more than 20 considering the other tournaments) will be fully enough for what we need from the player who scores the goals, thing that was not that clear or defined the last 3 seasons and was dependent of the form or the role of the several players able to provide these goals (Drogba, Lampard, Malouda, Anelka...)

[Kostas 1,468]

He is not a team player and he just needs the whole team focusing on him or its a waste. You have got to play counter attack with Torres or there is no point. He can not play in a team that dominates possession, he is a counter attacking player and that is it. He is useless in all parts of the game except for the ODD dribble and exploiting space which admittedly he is good at.

Did you believe that back when he played for the scum?

[warnie_666 1,081]

Wise words from yourself as well there ! It livened up proceedings a bit when the old fogies Anelka and . @Badboy -you have to admit though most of the bile is directed at him because of teh price tag -which although over inflated is like a tenner in Romans back pocket

Initially it was yes. But 1 goal in 23 games for a striker even on free transfer would be ridiculed by the media.

[Badboy 1,526]

Did you believe that back when he played for the scum?

When he played for the Scum he had a whole team playing for him to score. I got really excited when we first signed him partly because he was Fernando Torres but i blindly followed the wagon of '' he will be good because he is playing in a better team'' but now after seeing him in Chelsea blue and looking at his body language and the way he apparently acted in getting Mata here, i can see why he needs so much focus on himself because he is limited as a footballer. I really hope he proves me wrong but i cant see it. I think/hope he scores on Sunday though.

[Fulham Broadway 16,859]

Initially it was yes. But 1 goal in 23 games for a striker even on free transfer would be ridiculed by the media.

The difference being that the media started after two games with Torres, yet hardly questioned the fact that Rooney was absolute shit for 10 months....

[Fulham Broadway 16,859]

Cheers....I also like the way it is coming together regarding player purchases.. The Modric situation showed we are not the mugs of old when it comes to splashing Roman's dough.....

I like the way that we are trying to play attractive football to....really enjoyed the Bayern game the other night....Mierlies is a very good underated player, look how long he holds onto the ball - Hardly ever takes more than 2 touches before passing it....

Watching us play has defo became a joy again under AVB in the last few games compared the the drivel we had for the second half of last season...

I was more excited about Meireles arriving than Torres, not because I thought Torres was pony but I thought he was uneeded. Chelsea have a habit of signing players that score against them, and Meireles gives 100%.

And yes I reckon the team will gather momentum, hopefully at the theatre of shit on sunday

[Blue Armour 4,289]

Well let's look on the bright side...the probability that he will score in his next game is going up day by day

[Kostas 1,468]

When he played for the Scum he had a whole team playing for him to score. I got really excited when we first signed him partly because he was Fernando Torres but i blindly followed the wagon of '' he will be good because he is playing in a better team'' but now after seeing him in Chelsea blue and looking at his body language and the way he apparently acted in getting Mata here, i can see why he needs so much focus on himself because he is limited as a footballer. I really hope he proves me wrong but i cant see it. I think/hope he scores on Sunday though.

Fair enough. I, on the other hand, believed that he was a much more complete footballer for Liverpool than what your posts seem to suggest and it'll take more than a few months to change my view on his real quality, nevermind his type.

[Badboy 1,526]

Fair enough. I, on the other hand, believed that he was a much more complete footballer for Liverpool than what your posts seem to suggest and it'll take more than a few months to change my view on his real quality, nevermind his type.

But do you admit that the whole Liverpool team was geared towards him scoring hence being a 2 man operation with 2 holding players. Do you also agree that you can not win a league with only 1 player taking 80-100 % of your attacking resources simply because he needs it ?

[Badboy 1,526]

His goal scoring record for Spain ain't that good because he is not the only player that is a special attacking talent. He has scored a little over 1 in 4 games which is not great considering he plays in the most creative national team in football history in my opinion. I have accepted that we have seriously fucked up here and Liverpool are probably over the moon, we practically paid for Suarez and Carroll. While they got rid of a one dimensional pace based goal scorer who needs the team to sacrifice themselves for him. I do not like players who need the team to sacrifice themselves for them to play well, Totti needed that and so did Rivaldo.

[steve5221 91]

If you are comparing him to his Liverpool days he had more strength and pace then...the main problem with him has been his touch and shooting, simply woeful at times.

[Badboy 1,526]

Does anyone find it funny the way my countrymen Van Nistelrooy only won 1 premier league title in 6 seasons and as soon as he left Man utd they went on a trophy run of like 5 premier league titles and 1 European cup. As soon as Nistelrooy was sold Rooney Ronaldo and a host of other players came of age, Van Nistelrooy got 95 goals in 150 apps and they only won 1 Premier League in his time as the forward.......... you know why because he needed too much of the teams resources just like Torres will need.

[manpe 10,861]

Does anyone find it funny the way my countrymen Van Nistelrooy only won 1 premier league title in 6 seasons and as soon as he left Man utd they went on a trophy run of like 5 premier league titles and 1 European cup. As soon as Nistelrooy was sold Rooney Ronaldo and a host of other players came of age, Van Nistelrooy got 95 goals in 150 apps and they only won 1 Premier League in his time as the forward.......... you know why because he needed too much of the teams resources just like Torres will need.

Van Nistelrooy was in ManU between 2001-2006 (not a very long time)... At that time Arsenal were at their peak, and then Chelsea. ManU weren't such a dominant force back then as they were before 2001 and have become after 2006 with quality players coming through with Arsenal and also Chelsea seeing some decrease in quality (Arsenal's downfall has been consistent, Chelsea meanwhile bounced between different managers and couldn't find stability). I wouldn't put ManU's misery between 2001-2006 only down to Van Nistelrooy, 1 title during that period was good enough taking into consideration other teams' qualities.

[Badboy 1,526]

Van Nistelrooy was in ManU between 2001-2006 (not a very long time)... At that time Arsenal were at their peak, and then Chelsea. ManU weren't such a dominant force back then as they were before 2001 and have become after 2006 with quality players coming through with Arsenal and also Chelsea seeing some decrease in quality (Arsenal's downfall has been consistent, Chelsea meanwhile bounced between different managers and couldn't find stability). I wouldn't put ManU's misery between 2001-2006 only down to Van Nistelrooy, 1 title during that period was good enough taking into consideration other teams' qualities.

I am not blaming it solely on Van Nistelrooy but he did take a huge amount of resource even for the national team. As soon as he leaves the national team we reach our first world cup final in years WHY ? because the shackles was taken off players like Wesley, Robben, Van Persie. That dutch side was not the best we have had but they worked as a unit ! Even though Torres is a bit more rounded then what Nistelrooy was he still demands too much !

[manpe 10,861]

I am not blaming it solely on Van Nistelrooy but he did take a huge amount of resource even for the national team. As soon as he leaves the national team we reach our first world cup final in years WHY ? because the shackles was taken off players like Wesley, Robben, Van Persie. That dutch side was not the best we have had but they worked as a unit !

You may have a point here. I'm not quite sure if Torres fits the parametres of Van Nistelrooy though, he was a pure poacher target man who relied on his positioning... Torres seemed to have more to his game and with proper guidance he could become more of a team player in our system, it's a question of adapting and fine tuning your qualities a bit differently than before. It's up to AVB and the management to make sure the message reaches him, that we are not prepared to play for him, but to play with him.