Barbara

He should stay regardless. Stability is something that pays off in the long term, go ask Fergie... we should be patient and be aware that we aren't the only ones with a great team. There are other quality contenders in every tournament we play. We could win but so could them. We need to feel we're progressing, that's important, but I'd give him second, third, fourth chances to be honest. It's about time we try to be more stable so things will be much easier for us in the long term.

Torres isn't a fighter at all. He's a bit way too laid back too. I look at him I see a blondie - I call him in Portuguese 'a loira do Tchan' 'Tchan Blondie' - a girl from a brazilian band of a decade ago, whose purpose was dance and twerking to their terrible songs, showing her butt, legs and tits. Torres is there to show his pretty face and sell us shirts because you can't count on him for something else. Maybe if he had a stronger character he'd have recovered some of his old form, but in many ways he looks like Hazard in that department (thank God though Eden is very talented), too relaxed, but at least he didn't give stick back because he gets a lot of (deserved) stick from fans and media. That one time he said he doesn't care if Chelsea lose or win, he lost it, acted out on his frustration, but it seems he learned from it. If I had to choose who's to leave the team now between him and Lukaku, I'd choose him every day of the week. If Lukaku was willing to be our #2 it'd be much better than Torres being even our #4. I want Torres out, I can't deal with him in the pitch anymore, I was just advocating he's been on good behavior because he must feel like shit at some moments and there's so much the money comforts him about what a huge failure he actually is. Lukaku could have stayed. I can overlook his big mouth and entitled attitude, but I can't overlook him being a quitter because he didn't want to fight. That's when my problem with him increased a lot, which is why I wouldn't want him to come back, no matter how good of a striker he becomes. If you're a quitter now, you'll always be a quitter who will run when things get thick. You probably know that better than I do as it's your field of expertise... He speaks so much of himself because deep down he doesn't think he's that good and therefore he doesn't stay and fight because he's dead afraid of failing and it destroying or compromising his career. I should probably be more patient with him and cut him some slack because of his age, but I have such a huge nitpick for men that don't man up. Damn it, if you a man, honor what you have between your legs. I think there's nothing that bothers me more than a man who doesn't behave like a man and that's why I can't overlook a 21yo that isn't even a mature man yet, but he failed exactly in the thing I can't stand. I'm quite aware I'm too harsh on him. I'd be on anyone though because of that nitpick of mine.

Benteke would be perfect here, although how much he's prone to injuries? It seems he's injured all the time - but it could be only a wrong impression.

Atletico really is our last hope right? Because Torres could only consider receiving less money to go to a place he's loved and Atleti fans showed their love and respect towards him in the matches against us. With Cerezo lack of interested on him we're definitely fated to see his contract expiring before he leaves.

but did I say he has a bad life? My my purpose was to say he behaved well given how frustrated and hateful towards his own mistakes he must be. If we hate him for those mistakes, how do you think he feels about himself as a professional? Isn't your career (not only the money you make out of it) an important aspect of your life? Also I didn't say he should throw a tantrum, what I meant is when people get frustrated they can easily get out of line, or is it a lie? He's been controlling his emotions well imo. He's a good employee to the club, he just sucks playing football. I'm complimenting his behavior, mate. We have nothing to say about it in the last two years. He's been a good professional here. But I still want him out of the club just as the next person, despite having good sides to him. who even mentioned Lukaku? Did I miss any post? Because I certainly didn't even remember Lukaku existed when I posted mine. I read a post by Fulham Broadway and agreed with him. Unless he (or someone else) talked about him and I've missed, I don't know what you could possibly be talking about? There are good sides to both players - Lukaku and Torres - but at the end of the day I really like the idea of both of them out of Chelsea. Lukaku isn't a bad goal scorer and despite disliking his lack of balls to man up and fight, I don't take Torres for a fighter either... Also I haven't seen Lukaku moaning, throwing tantrums or showing the middle finger. He speaks too much in a stupid, annoying way and he's entitled as fuck thinking of himself much higher not only than he should but than he is. And he's weak, behaves like a spoiled little girl that wants everything handed to him, but he isn't a moaner... and never threw tantrums (that I remember of). I think you assumed there was an agenda, when there wasn't any and then you came to conclusions that made no sense whatsoever... there's nothing in common between Torres and Lukaku for you to talk about double standards. With all this attitude issues (imo) Lukaku doesn't act out in his frustration and had a good example of that just as Torres in the aspect I was defending Torres. Being an arrogant weakling that fears the fight doesn't make you a guy with bad behavior. Lukaku never even got of line (if you don't count speaking as a moron, but that's stupidity, not anything else). At least your post opened my eyes as to why Belgiannut asked me why all of sudden I was sympathizing with Torres. You guys made me laugh hard.

yep, very Florentino Perez of you, although to be fair to you, Florentino does it out of a whim, not necessarily because he identified a better player. Players go through ups and downs and stable clubs give them time to regroup - whether in the bench or in action - and try to develop them. Reus had ups and dows - especially when he was Oscar age. I'm not even disagreeing with you that Reus is a better player (he might even be, I wouldn't know, as I keep saying I don't like comparing players). Smart managers see how players work in their system, regardless if there are 100 another kids better than his player. If he does the job he's been asked, then why risk a change? Who's to say Reus would even fit EPL or our team? He probably would, but it's a risk nonetheless. I'm not advocating Oscar's cause. He hasn't been doing the job he was asked, so it means he's been failing, but I have a huge problem with the bold part of your statement. Football teams don't work like that. I've seen so many cases throughout the years of getting a better player to replace a good player but who was making a job, only to disrupt a whole system or simply not fitting it. We have more than enough human resource to have a team that can win any title we play - because good players isn't the only variable to win things - so I think we should work with those first, see what happens. If one of them compromises the whole system - as Mata did, for example - than replace him, but we have more than capable players. Oscar could leave, he could even leave deservedly - but it doesn't mean we need to bring someone. We have Willian and Cesc, not to say Hazard capable of playing #10. Those are some very good players. No need to go to the market for a better, improved AM.

I don't think there's any reason for the players who's missed most of the pre-season to be thrown in a game like Burnley - much less tested against Real Sociedad. Maybe a late (very late) substitution in league match, but we have four players in the same condition, so I expect (and think is advisable) none of them to start and at most one to play about 10 minutes (doubt they'll even be in the bench tbh). Anything else is premature, hushed and pointless. The Sociedad match is absolutely irrelevant for them and I expect them to be like Didier, Courtois and co were yesterday to the Vitesse match - mere spectators that aren't even in the bench. Before the first match on pre-season players went at least a whole week only training to regain some resemblance of physical shape. They'll be here a couple of days before the Sociedad game... no need to even show up there - just let them do the physical conditioning again and then slowly be introduced to matches. As there won't be any friendlies then, I expect the first of them to start a match at the end of the month, after taking a few minutes in the previous match. you do realize that he was more dispossessed than dribbled opponents in the very link you asked us to check? I think that was what everyone was about here. Willian can hold possession, create space, but he isn't the smartest kid in the block and if affects his end product (imo it's not even about the goals and the assists, but some of his choices are just poor, regardless of what they're leading to). He needs to be more incisive, but compare him to Salah - who passes by opponents in the runs (counting as dribbles, possibly as take-ons and dribbles are often grouped together in stats) is like comparing squares and circles and saying one has four corners compared to the other. Something Willian is also of taking on opponents while running... but hasn't been doing much for some reason.

and then the next kid will be better and then the next and the next and the next. I bet you identify yourself a lot with Florentino Perez...

I'm not pulling it, or defending him, I'm being understanding towards his own hurdles. We all have them... I'm just saying it's not all dandy from his perspective and I don't want anyone to have sympathy for him. I don't have much of it. I'm just saying it sucks to be him from that perspective. Yes, he's rich. My crush at high school was too, didn't have a care in the world, was living a normal life like every other kid at school and then one day he decided to put a bullet on his throat when he was 20-something. Not a millionaire, of course, but sick rich. I suppose all money in the world didn't help his case back then. It's not about sympathy just saying that he's behaved quite decently given his position. Anyone in his position would behave nice because they have an amazing bank account, right? That's all that matters it seems... A few seconds before I posted on this thread, I was posting 'kill me' on Mourinho's thread when I read he confirmed his stay. It's just people are so fast to ignore others may have problems to deal daily too, but it seems if you're sick rich those problems don't matter... as if he isn't tempted to just mess things up from time to time and start not giving a shit again. As you all said, the money is in his bank, all he needs to do is show up to work. He doesn't even need to break a sweat to get that money. He could be throwing tantrums, moaning, complaining, giving the fans the middle finger, whatever, but he's been quiet, sorry if I can give him credit for dealing with his frustration in a nice way. He probably pays a lot of his rich money to a great shrink to keep him grounded.

you're a man too. It's not always about the money... A man has his pride. Do you think he wouldn't give up a few weeks of his wage not to miss a goal like he did against Olimpija? For us is crazy to think about all the money he earns, but for him it's become an normal thing. We hear of so many millionaire people saying or showing how unhappy they are, many rich people commit suicide. I'd love to have even one of his month's wage, but I'm sure it doesn't comfort him enough. It's probably the only upside of a very bad situation. Also, he continues to sell a lot of shirts (that's a mystery to me), so he pays back a bit with that, but what really matters to him is to play football. I can't believe a man could be happy being as shitty as he's been for many years.

I agree with @Fulham Broadway posts. Yesterday night I was thinking about him and I must admit I felt very sorry for him. He was at the top of the world once and it's been a long while and now he just can't find his best form, it must be awful to be Torres. Yeah, we complain rightfully but he doesn't have attitude problems such as he did in the past. Actually he's been a poster boy in his behavior and to be honest, he actually tried. He's been trying, it's just that he sucks, but he's been trying. He's been running, training well (according to Mourinho anyway), you don't see him sulk, or moan. It's not easy to handle the bad form AND all the criticism he gets all the time. I'm not saying he shouldn't get it because he works everyday. He should be criticized, but for a moment I stopped to think what it must feel to be on his skin. I felt really sorry for him and I respect him for the way he's been handling what must be one of the most un-pleasurable situations for a professional player to be on.

kill me http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9401753/transfer-news-jose-mourinho-confirms-fernando-torres-will-stay-at-chelsea

I'm going to ignore his assessment of Torres (it's probably for media anyway, how do you want clubs to try and buy him if the manager doesn't compliment at least his attitude, when one can't play in the pitch, at least let it be known he has great attitude - something Torres didn't have here anymore and recovered when Mou arrived). There were two - maybe three statements I really liked about this interview 1) we working tactically and training to play with two strikers. One of those could be Schurrle. As a target centered man he doesn't work, but as a second striker he could do some job 2) that he qualified Cesc as a center midfielder, and went further saying that was a crucial position for us to get someone new 3) his repetitive lack of mention of Ramires when he says about players coming back from Brazil. Added to #2, it gives me hope we won't see Ramires starting as many matches as last season. two strikers, Cesc in the pivot, creating from the deep and Ramires' absence. How much better can it get? Only if the second striker can't possibly be Fernando Torres.

I have a problem with men.... when they don't man up I don't rate them... for anything. It's the same approach whether they play for my team, work with me, are my friends or lovers. If you were born male, than behave as such. I don't take well those people. I'd accept him back because I'm here to support Chelsea above all. But that's it. I'd accept because the moment he wears the royal Blue everything must be overlooked. But I'd hate if that happened. I don't want that to happen and I hope it doesn't happen. Rarely people with his profile go too further. Entitled people that want things in a plate and don't work hard for them to happen to them are their biggest enemy and certain downfall so chances of him scoring like a crazy in a top club aren't that big imo

I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about managers - especially if when that happens Mourinho is still around here. Who wants a player who runs away from the fight? Who wants things given to him in a plate? How can you count on a player like that? Didn't we accept Cole and now Fàbregas? Or at least most of us did, of course people will forget things quickly and won't hold grudges, but fans aren't the ones making deals, I meant the TPTB people. They might not want him here ever again. He stepped out of us not like any other guy has done in the last few years, he stepped out running from the fight. It's such a weak demonstration of character...

trust me - if you can I'm not his biggest fan, wasn't that much convinced he'd do really well here, but so far much better than good. He's impressed me and I've watched both matches in full. It's not about the goal and the assists, it's about how he's just all around better than I've expected. Showed to be more than just the guy that will score because of his physical attributes. It's not about running and shoving opponents around. He links up well, he's smart, he even tries the slight fancy play and can actually do it. Always thought he was good finishing and was a physical player, but he's more than that, or at least he showed in two matches. But I don't think it's pre-season spell. If anything, he'll play even better as time passes - not only because he'll get used to the club, the teammates and the style of the league, but because he still seems to have some ceiling to grow. He's proved me wrong very quickly - as I was a bit skeptical about him. I've never been happier about being wrong before. And that's only two matches down the road. Consider me slightly excited (for full excitement I'll need some of that in some official matches)

sorry if I don't want a player that keeps asking to leave when things get thick (even not that thick actually), that doesn't want to fight for his position to ever come back here. He can score a thousand goals. He doesn't have the profile. Despite our curse the last few years, there are a lot of players in the world that score goals. We won't ever sign him back.

you forgot Matic, Salah and Zouma who were bought in the same window Mata and Kevin were sold.

it never ceases to amaze me the lengths people went in this thread to defend Lukaku's words and attitude. Now Mourinho is lying... as if everything Lukaku himself said throughout the last months don't confirm that. Believe what you want, but your post is embarrassing. It's one thing to lie about our window transfer being closed, not having interest in this player or that or other things that don't involve third parties. It's another completely different to come out and say something happened when it didn't about someone else. If Mourinho lies about it, it's lack of character. If he lies about our targets in transfer window is playing the game, everyone does that. Seriously, we don't need those posts here and I don't care where you are from, before someone comes here and say it's because you're Belgian. You could be English, Brazilian or the second coming.

he didn't simply wanted that, he made it a condition for his stay. At age 21 proved in mid-table teams? Sorry, Ron, but that doesn't make sense in any place of the earth... If you want to be #1, come here, work your arse off and earn the position.

sorry - haven't seen the vid posted in the previous page. Ignore my previous post here. But as I said yesterday in my huge post, Costa - when the interviewer assumed he had a captive nailed starting position for us - didn't accept that assumption and corrected the guy saying he had to fight for his place. that comes from a player that scored 34 goals in a top club only in the league. Now a 'nobody' who's scored half of that, in mid-table teams, come here and thinks he should be granted the #1 position? He isn't willing to fight, he thinks he's already proved his value when he hasn't. Good think Mourinho clarified it off hand. He probably learned from last year when he didn't promptly say Lukaku asked to leave and had to endure months of Lukaku's half truths leading everyone to believe it was Mourinho's choice. Now there's nothing Lukaku can say. God, I can't say how happy I'm for him being out of here. He could be a great striker someday and score many, many goals. I don't want someone like him representing my club... sorry I just don't like his persona. I can't overlook the attitude and only keep the stats.

wasn't my intention... and didn't that thing already die anyway? It was one of the most stupid things here and I'm glad it's gone. But one must wonder why the guy comes here to say shit about us, roman, the board, etc...

damn, Belgian? Sorry to have hurt your feelings, love.

He's already got Eva on his corner... And she has that latina quality in the way she moves her hips just when he's jumping the bench. And that was cute all around... I love this tradition and I wish we had vids of ALL initiation songs.

jealous? All those clubs have money been injected at them. Are you jealous Roman didn't buy yours? Which one is that anyway? Liverpool? Arse? Or the place to be known as Everton?