Barbara

I didn't mean it like that... I meant from those 22. They need to have five in those 22, they have only four Their 'advantage' is having an English GK. I put it between quotes because Hart can be unpredictable for streaks. He isn't a top GL imo, there are tons better than him. Then they have a few English players in the bench and young prospects. We have two English players starting for us as well as a homegrown, I wouldn't say they're better than us per say. If you count Victor Moses in the squad we'd have more than them, as Aké and Christensen have been promoted and Zouma - staying with us, will spend three years until he's 21 and therefore will count as HG in the future too.

how many HG are there in their team anyway? English I spot Hart, Milner and Lamps, but any of those foreigners are HG?

is the one in pink Victor Moses? Mikel joined the team in Netherlands but Moses wasn't there it looks a lot like him in this picture

Personally I disagree with almost everything (it happens ) Comparing what Matic and Cesc both offer going forward and passing makes it very clear about who among the two should be sacrificed. Including Ramires in any capacity that isn't against big teams, once upon a time and not even in the pivot, but as an AM, is a big no to me. You're destroying everything to afford a player that doesn't play that well as a #5. Ramires, with all his problems and limitations, suits better #8. As a wing and as a DM he's just terrible imo. He works well as a B2B, but that's it. The thing is that when we play him as a 'winger' his main responsibility is still defending and then running. The moment we put him in the team our pass quality drops considerably. I can't get over his 50% pass accuracy during one of the WC matches. That's atrocious. So why should we sacrifice our whole transition to accommodate a player that doesn't even play that well as #5? So even if Matic is underrated for his passing and vision (he is) Cesc is far better, so he should be given the role of providing us with that. Matic can hold position if he's asked to, not only can but will. It's his style, but Mourinho has the team in his hands and if he asks him to be more reactive or to hold position he will. I'm just not sure it's going to be needed. If we want to give a bit more freedom for Matic to go ahead in a 4-3-3 his natural substitute has to be Mikel. van Ginkel could be down the line, but he's still a bit too flustered right now. I think Oscar or Willian with their incredible work-rate are enough to offer the team some balance in a 4-3-3 with Cesc and Matic in the pivot. We've been shaky defensively in the pre-season and maybe that's why people are so concerned about it, but I don't any of the combos made of Luiz + Lamps, Matic + Lamps, Matic + Ramires, Luiz + Ramires far superior (if superior at all) in offering coverage to our defense than Matic + Cesc would. Luiz didn't hold much position, Lamps had ups and downs, Ramires had shockers in the second half of the season quite often. Still we had a great defensive system last season, Cesc isn't as slow and as bad defending as some assume to the point it'll expose our defense or jeopardize the system. And for the tougher matches, when he could be a detractor, we either move him higher in the pitch or to the bench. I have little doubt Ramires won't play those matches, but always as an 'AM' with two pivot players behind him. Also people should be aware that Mourinho's plan wasn't to be as passive as we were last year. He made adjustments in the team, changed the approach around December to adapt to our limitations - technical, mental and human. We lacked key players, we lacked a winning mentality and some of players weren't as technical as they should. Now it's different (as long as Costa plays all matches) and I'm sure he'll adopt a more aggressive style. Depending on how the progress to move to this more aggressive style goes we'll be using Ramires more or less, but his idea, I'm absolutely sure, is to find a way to balance the team having Cesc playing in the pivot. It could even be Ramires as you suggested, but in that case I guess he'd be either the second or even the third midfielder, there's no way he'd be the most defensive midfielder at all. We'll have to wait and see, but changes in how we approach games and how we're set up should be expected. We didn't make those surgical signings just so we could keep the tactics and just improve mentally and technically. That tactics we used for most part of last year weren't even his plan A tactics anyway. He had to adapt along the way.

my assessment on him is entirely based on his season for Galatasaray. I've watched them in UCL prior to playing us. Eto'o was considerably better.

Honestly I don't remember seeing your post, maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I'm positive I wasn't referring to you. But it should apply if your conclusion came from the last 135 minutes he's played. The point isn't questioning his signing in general or not, but questioning it on what's been shown in two friendlies, especially with the assumption he can't play the pivot position when in 180 minutes (a bit less because he was subbed last match) he played there only 45 and he and Matic were nearly flawless then. He hasn't been anywhere near the pivot today and still there were people saying he can't play there because he's slow, because when he lost the ball he couldn't be fast enough to recover it and it exposed us, etc... make assumptions it will happen is anyone's guess, but that hasn't happened yet because the only 45 minutes he's played there he didn't face this.

Bremen actually had about 5 players from their first team in the 1st half

both goals in the first came from his side, that miracle save by Courtois was from an attack that also came from his side, his crosses were bad (but it seems only Ivanovic is trashed because of it - no jab on either of you, guys) and he didn't link up that well (although not bad). I didn't like at all his last match and today I don't have much to say positively. I definitely wouldn't pick him as one of the best players in the first half. At all.

exactly why he has to be there because we already proved we don't have the player that will take that risk. Cesc will. Cesc will pass them, as he did in those 45 minutes against Vitesse. It's natural for him to do that. And today Cesc also dropped deep in a handful occasions to get a touch as well - same as our AMs last season. I think Mourinho is making as much tests as he can now and will only take the last two friendlies more seriously (not that he hasn't been serious so far, I think he'll make tests until then, but with the full squad at his disposal he'll probably stick to the test he liked more and won't make as many subs in the last two).

I meant those three, Ron, not the amount itself. The three we have aren't enough. We have one #1 material striker and two #3 material strikers. We don't have a #2 striker that has the qualities to play his part.

There are two things to take into consideration: 1) if we want to get rid of Torres, Mourinho has to continue to praise the only possible aspect of him that can be praised and give him some match time, who will buy a player that doesn't play? It's really a case of being between a rock and a hard place. 2) Who are we going to play if he gives him the Malouda treatment? We don't have four strikers waiting to play. we have three, two already passed it. I can't believe whatever happened because of stupid French television ruined Eto'o and Mourinho's relationship to the point he wants to stay in London but won't stay with us. Sorry for people who may get offended by it, but based on current form Eto'o >>>>>>>>>> Drogba regardless of what Etoo's real age is. Also, the order things are released to the general public isn't necessarily the order they happened. Mourinho probably knew about Lukaku's departure before we went after Didier. We probably went after him because it was clear Lukaku wasn't going to stay - the deal just hasn't been done yet at the time. It's a HUGE miscalculation on Mourinho and the board's side thinking that Drogba is enough just because we have a good striker on Costa. Costa could struggle to adapt, injury himself and a lot of other things that will make us look to the bench and only see two players that aren't on their best anymore. We should have brought someone other than The King (as much as I love him and I think he can be useful) because the awful truth is that both him and Torres are #3 striker material. None is up to being # striker. They should be getting the same amount of minutes as Ba had (even less actually, as last year we had a rotation for #1 striker throughout the whole season). It should be having Torres OR Drogba in the squad, both is nonsense and suicidal. There will be only one person to blame if our season is jeopardized by not having a decent #2 striker and that is Mourinho. Even the board can't be held accountable if Mourinho tells them the same thing he tells us: that the three strikers we have is enough. It isn't.

It isn't an obsession. How do you think an English Chelsea fan feels when he looks at his team lineup and don't see one English there? Or just one or two? Chelsea became a global team since Roman is here, but it will always be by definition an English club and a team should have a core of players from the country where it's based. This isn't an obsession, this is staying true to your identity. We need more English players like Terry. Many more. Not just one or two, but at least four or five.

I agree on the 4-3-3 but I'd have Matic-Cesc Oscar Schurrle/Willian-Hazard Costa by far our best formation if all of them are in form.

well, mate, if I must say there are some bad choices there. We don't know for sure who will play between Cech and Courtois, so maybe it'd be wiser to pick another top goalie now (Howard, Hart, Mignolet) and later when we're sure we have a #1 for the league you trade them. You're getting two pricey GK when most people have a crappy, inexpensive 2nd option. Just a tip though. Don't spend too much in your bench, have some inexpensive players that are likely to have plenty of minutes in smaller sides and invest your funds in your starting XI.

he may not be able to do anything about Lukaku's departure, but he's as guilty as hell if we don't sign another striker. It doesn't need to be world class because there's none available. But someone around the same as Lukaku (preferably with a different set of skills) is enough. Those two are worse than Milito... I hope Jose's hope isn't that just because he won an UCL title with Milito he can do it again with the likes of Torres and Drogba. Also in addition to injuries, Costa can have a bad day in the office ... every player has one of those from time to time. Then he's off one match, we look to the bench there's Torres and Drogba? fml edit: see? just what I said. He hasn't received ONE single ball inside the box. Yes, he overplayed a few times and should have released the ball, but he didn't get any service at all.

at least one of our players is already completely in form two matches: two missions accomplished. 100% accuracy

Oscar needs to regain form. He's proved to be the one player that gives stability and balances our team. If he continues from where he stopped last season we're going to struggle. With Cesc by his side or behind him, someone will make up for his limited creativity (although when he's in form he isn't that uncreative either), but he seems to get the pieces of our midfield together. We just look like a more balanced side when he's in form. So let's hope he comes back with some confidence and in good form. He'll be needed, especially in the beginning while Cesc is still adapting to the tactics and the teammates.

we need to start the prayer circle asap for this guy's health. Torres already showed in two matches he's back in form... form of missing anything and everything. Drogba was already bad last season for Galatasaray, so you can't expect only motivation to be back here to help his cause (although he's definitely more useful and resourceful than Torres). everybody, raise your hands

felt that too. He had a good debut, but ever since he's been fading and struggling more. Each match is a bit worse than the previous. That way he may tempt José to move Azpili back to the left. Hopefully it won't happen though as he's still new in the team and is adapting.

sorry then, but summing up your post here and the posts in the match threads, it seems like people are labeling Cesc in the pivot something that won't work because he loses possession and isn't fast enough to recover it based on matches when he hasn't been there for 135 minutes now... It seems like people are coming to conclusions based on the matches, not simply on their theories, but if it's only your theory, okay then. Again, the 45 minutes he played there we completely dominated the midfield and that was against Vitesse. Although we played even better when it was changed for a 4-3-3 in the second half of that match. So I misunderstood your whole post. Also the ideal 4-3-3 doesn't have Ramires anywhere the lineup against the average side. Not sure Mourinho will see it that way but his insistence on praising Cesc in every interview, the way he stresses he's a CM or someone that gives his best #8 but also with flexibility to play #10 and basically no mention of Ramires at all makes me think he'll try that. Actually he will have to cope without Ramires anyway because he's suspended for a few matches (I guess 3?) as he didn't complete his suspension from the end of last season. He's a moron.

Costa didn't get ANY service today!!!!! How can he be said to be as bad or worse than Torres when Torres had a sitter (from a cross that was supposed to be to Costa, but didn't reach him) and missed chances and Costa had nothing? He received one ball at the edge of the box and he chose to pass to Salah who was much better positioned and unmarked, but he was a bit ahead of the last defender and his goal was disallowed correctly. Costa could have shot, but that was literally the only service he's got today... a pass outside the box.

watch the match again... first, our FB didn't bomb forward. There were times we had possession in the attack and you couldn't even see Azpilicueta in the frame. I remember one interception by Werder in our attack that ended up being a deflection and Azpilicueta got the rebound. He was in the middle line of the pitch literally while the ball has been in the attack for a while already. Luís was up more times, but often when Azpili was high, he was way back. We will never have both FB bombing forward as you call it. Cesc played #10 today the full 90 minutes he stayed in the pitch. I can't connect this to what you're assuming will happen, but that hasn't happened yet as our best midfield presentation so far has been with him and Matic in the pivot. It's pre-season, the opponents aren't stellar, but all conclusions are made in people's head as they haven't seen it happening yet to base their theories simply because it didn't happen as they picture. I'm convinced we won't play him there in big matches, I'm aware he isn't that fast, but no one can say based on what they've seen so far that it doesn't work and he doesn't work because when he played there it simply worked. It may not always work - it certainly won't, but I'm actually surprised about the overreaction towards him in the pivot when he hasn't played there for one match and a half now (he played as third man midfield in the second half against Vitesse). It's okay to have theories, we all have them, but make it clear they're theories about what you think will happen, not based on what happened because that couldn't be farther from what really passed.

I don't get why people are complaining a lot about Cesc either. The first 20 minutes or so he misplaced some passes, but again he's been training for a couple of weeks, we can certainly cut him some slack. Then I see the lack of pace argument, but he wasn't at fault in the attacks against us. Matic and van Ginkel didn't work well in the first half. It wasn't clear who was the #5 and #8 and they seemed to alternate between that - a major mistake imo, a pivot should have the positions well defined and absolutely NO interchange, except maybe which side each is playing, but who's the #5 and who's the #8 should be unchangeable throughout the match. As a consequence there was a lot of space between our lines - both the defensive and the offensive regarding the midfield. That's where we lost the game tactically (the result was a mere consequence). Cesc ran almost as fast as Eden (I'll concede Eden wasn't at his best pace yet, which is expected and understandable) to that shot he chipped over the goalie. While it wasn't Usain Bolt sprint, it was far from slow. If I'm to fault his display today would have been for some passes - most of them at the beginning of the match. his supposed lack of pace (emphasis on supposed) didn't affect us where we had problems. He didn't have a top presentation, but he's one of the last I'd blame for the mess we were. I'm not denying he isn't fast, but I think you guys are overestimating his weaknesses - maybe in a way we're overestimating his strengths, but questioning his signing is too much. Suggesting other pivot players is too much. For the first time in many years we have a good depth in all possible pivot positions. The moan is not reasonable, especially over a pre-season match.

the overreaction in this thread is absolutely unbearable!!!! Get a grip, people! I can't believe I'm seeing people asking more signings, others saying we shouldn't have signed Cesc, others saying Hazard is clearly out of form. The only already in form player in the team is Torres. The sitters he missed against Vitesse and today are proof of that. Everyone else is having ups and downs because they aren't entirely match fit yet. There are new players coming (new signings and players coming back from holidays), Mourinho is making tests (we played with Torres as a winger ffs), and while things were a hot mess today, it was just that, a test. One that didn't work out. So onwards with the next idea. The squad will be complete as of tomorrow and hopefully all Brazilians (including Ramires *sighs*) and Shirley will get some minutes already on Friday. Yeah, the EPL starts two weeks from now. Two weeks is as long as our top players bar Terry, Iva and Cech have been training. Also we'll face Burnley, not City. There's no reason to panic, the moaning is disproportional and it feels like some people's fingers itch to post their negative takes. It's almost like they can barely wait for a chance to put the team down. It wasn't pretty. It wasn't supposed to be with Torres in the wing anyway. It was a test that didn't work, move on already! Some of the reactions here are so serious you'd think this was UCL knock-out stage. Yeah, the sarcasm from others may be too much (for you, not for me), but even if all those complaints make a lot of sense (most of them don't, tbh), this is a team that Mourinho is setting up now. If van Gaal already fixed Manchester United, good for them!!!!!! The only race I'm worried about is the race to the EPL title. As of now we have as many points as anyone else. God's sake, this place can damn right have its Torres moments...

oh guys, at least you made me laugh with your latest comments here. I swear I laughed out loud