Barbara

don't crush my dreams!!!!

Absolutely agree, if Cesc doesn't work there or if we want him at #10, move Oscar to the bench and replace Cesc in the pivot for MvG.

as I said I haven't been here for 24h (and I'm aborting the thread now), so I haven't read all your posts on the matter. You're definitely more calm or levelheaded about the whole thing than others... I still believe playing for QPR would be one of the worst things ever, but I still wouldn't respect him any less if he went there. I'm out of here, I understand and respect people's hurt feelings, even if some of the things stated here say more about Chelsea fans loyalty towards one of the club's legends than it says about Frank's loyalty to Chelsea and fans.

OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!! I want to like that pic a thousand times. Thanks so much, Daniel, you made my day #fangirl #girlish

as I said, he can handle some bulked guys quite well for someone as light. But that's when he has the ball and the other is harassing him. When roles are reversed, and he has to take the ball away from the bulked guy protecting it, he isn't as effective. The thing is people don't always take into account that the players Oscar tackle as an AM aren't the same players he'll tackle as a pivot player nor in the same situations. So opposition just recovered the ball and they're trying the break, normally running or at least not exactly still, then Oscar runs behind them, tackles and boom, possession recovered. Now imagine players in their final third, exchanging quick passes or holding possession, protecting the ball and little Oscar trying to intercept it or tackle them. It's a more challenging position imo, especially when you do that 100% of the time you're in the pitch. And also as others said, the main reason we have Cesc in the pivot isn't even because of his defensive skills, Oscar himself and Matic will offer coverage for that. Cesc is there to be the guy that thinks quickly and who has an incredible accurate pass that will provide us amazing through balls and to break in the counter with much more quality. Oscar doesn't have enough quality (yet) to do that as a CAM, let alone as a DLP. If we move Oscar to the pivot we'll extenuate him physically quickly and we'll be even further burned out because the position is more demanding physically and we'll be very limited in the quick, smart transition as he doesn't play with his head high (one of his biggest problems and detractors imo).

that's the main point!!!!!! He didn't sign a contract with City, he signed with NYCFC and he won't play for them for another six months! So instead of being shipped to Australia to stay fit and compete some in the meanwhile, he chose England - his own country - and a club where he can train with some real good professionals (staff and players). It's one thing to stay a few months keeping your form and then playing a championship and fighting for the title and another completely different to spend a whole year being a glorified cheerleader.

but still a significant different imo. You don't need the exact weight to say Cesc is stronger than Oscar. And he's more pestering too, more annoying, he has the physical and personality aspects to work well in the pivot. Oscar is almost a lady when it comes to pestering. He's so polite and well behaved, lol. He won't pester like Cesc will. I'm not even embarrassed of saying I appreciate Cesc's cuntish behavior now he plays for us but thanks for correcting me, and yeah, the official site is moronic, lol.

so I suppose you didn't read my second paragraph at all? So let me rephrase for you... instead of dumping your GF, you told her you'd be dating still, but you'll be seeing her once a month, despite living side by side. For the sake of keeping the relationship you keep the status, but don't actually date anymore. How do you offer for a player that believes he's still fully capable of playing a contract when he's aware he won't make even the bench in most competitions? He's there to motivate the new guys, to strengthen the dressing room, but playing time will very, very limited. When do you think Cole and Frank would play? Cole was already #2 last year without Luís, with him now, he'd be #3. Lamps now have the competition of Cesc and van Ginkel. When would he play? League Cup first tie against a 4th division team? Or FA Cup corresponding of that? So you offer crumbles and if they don't accept to eat what falls from your table at least you made your part and he can't be held accountable? Please, tell me you don't take this seriously as us offering him something to stay. edit: Also on the shirt burning pic I've seen. I'll only believe it's a Chelsea fan doing that with a video with a lot of evidence it's a Chelsea fan. I wouldn't doubt some opposition fan - that burned Torres, Fabregas and others shirts, wouldn't do that pretending to be a Chelsea fan. I've seen people disappointed everywhere, some of them really hurt, but no one called him Judas yet or said he was dead for them or something. Most acknowledge he's still a legend, but with a tarnished legacy now and that they won't ever forgive him, but they don't say he isn't a legend in this club anymore. Then again, I've avoided this thread for nearly 24h, I don't know what else happened here, but Twitter and Tumblr aren't too bad.

No, you're just saying after you dumped your GF (because you guys weren't working out anymore, it's not even that you dumped her because of nothing) she can date, but only an ugly, loser guy that will do nothing to your 'reputation'. Now if she moves onto the most popular guy at school you'll be pissed because he's your rival. That's exactly what the bunch of you have been saying. And I'll repeat, it's emotions, you can't help how you feel about him playing for another team in England, but don't question his loyalty to this club because of it. The argument that because he chose City he's a terrible person that doesn't take into account Chelsea fans' feelings is quite bad imo when people wouldn't mind him going to Fulham, West Ham or even then QPR (that must have been what he thought, proper fans won't mind me spending a few months in a club that isn't even one of their rivals, I'm far away from London as I can be while being in a top team to train). I can't get over the QPR posts from yesterday. What's even more idiotic in the 'City problem' is that some people really believe he is capable of helping them win the title. That's as near to delusional as it gets. If Chelsea loses the title for City because of Frank Lampard's contributions in 6 months of football where he may play a handful times, as a late substitute, it means we failed as a team to win/score when it mattered. Also where did this idea that we offered him a new contract come from? Did you forget his interviews prior the WC where he stated he wanted to stay here but it didn't depend only on him? He even talked about retiring ffs. We took weeks to offer him a new contract last season and I feel like the club only did it because he broke the goals record. We don't renew guys over 30 that aren't playing top level anymore. We have many of them in the last two years to mention, including Ashley Cole. Frank alternates between good matches and bad matches because his age is really catching up, we signed Cesc Fàbregas and we have Marco van Ginkel fully recovered from his injury, where does Frank fit in our team? The interview saying Roman said he could be whatever he wanted here may imply he could be the new Paulo Ferreira, but that's not offering you to stay as a player, that's offering him to stay as a dressing room cheerleader. I'm baffled you can't say the difference - if that was ever offered in the first place, I feel like we must have offered him to be whatever he wants to be here after he retires as a player, not now. As he said he was considering even retirement, it could be that he talked about it to our board and we said he could work here as whatever he wanted.

Oscar doesn't have stamina and isn't strong enough to handle 90 minutes in the pivot. It's one thing to keep pressing and tackling in the final third - where he wins most of his tackles anyway (though the most accurate zone he wins them is in the opposite half), and another completely different to have to bug attackers in our own half of the pitch for 90 minutes. I think Oscar doesn't have the physical requirements to play in the pivot, even as #8 that can handle some lighter players, but he's way too light and I don't think he's the same size as Cesc. Isn't Cesc more muscled and heavier? I do know he's stronger for sure, although Oscar is surprisingly strong for his slim figure. He protects the ball quite well with his body for someone so light in a league with such bulked players as the EPL. edit: just checked CFC site. They're the same height (179cm) but Cesc has nearly 20kg more (67kg compared to 85kg).

Well, the thing is there are some sites that count penalties won as assists, EA for example does, which is why in the Fantasy premier league he had 72 assists from 2006/07 on (they don't have prior to that), but in the Premier League website for the same period he had 59 (and none in previous seasons). Then you check his wikipedia page which has stats based on ESPN according to the link (I checked and they match) and for the same period he has 68 (and 9 more from previous seasons, totaling 77). They probably don't count penalties but count some deflected chances or something. I'll go with ESPN, it's an average between EA and EPL and I don't like the idea of counting whoever wins a penalty as an assister. It makes no sense in my head. Also ESPN compared to the Opta that Daniel just posted only differs by 2. So I'll go with ESPN indeed. In all comps - for ESPN - he has 98 assists which is why that link posted by any of you saying he has 119 makes no sense in my head.

it's all down to confidence and he's lost his. That's why sometimes he can score some very nice goals, the vid below yours with his 2013/14 goals have some very tidy finishings by him. But he doesn't have confidence to make them week in, week out. As his main problem imo is that, you can never make predictions about his season. I think last season was the best he's had for us because despite scoring only 11 in all comps (only 5 in EPL), he linked up well with our players, I think Schurrle and him have a good understanding. IF and there's a big IF here, Costa can stay healthy the whole season (that's not the IF part, although let's pray for it), Fernando and Drogba could be enough as #2s. You suppose Mourinho won't substitute Costa unless the match is already ours or he's feeling some small injury/tiredness. In those cases bring Nando and it won't affect us much how he does as we would probably be already leading the match comfortably. The key for us is Costa being healthy the 10 months. As a backup plan, that Mourinho will know when to use and when not, Fernando won't be that imo based on how useful he was last season, despite still being what I'd label failure. He was better than he were in previous years for us, but he's still bad. It still makes the situation very risky because rarely a player goes a whole season without even a minor injury and depending on the timing of it, relying on only Torres and Drogba could cost us titles. So the prayer circle start for Costa's health.

just want to clarify I didn't mean he's doing it out of spite because we dumped him. I'm saying he's taking care of his business keeping his best interests in mind, the same way we did. I don't think he'd hold grudges. He knows rarely a player retires in the club they've played most of their lives.

or he can already leave Mikel out of one of two squads (UCL or EPL) now. He did that with Essien last season, that wasn't registered in UCL, only Marco.

does this discussion ever get old around here? Normally people celebrate the fact that their club spread the barriers of their country and conquered fans everywhere in the globe. Only here I see it being a sin and making fans less fans because they're foreigners. I don't know, I just don't get the rational behind it.

I cover the part he doesn't strengthen City in my first post on the subject. The part I'm talking about now is that he wasn't good enough for us anymore. WE wanted to be strengthened, so WE replaced him, directly or indirectly.

we replaced him when he wasn't good enough for us anymore. He's replaced us when we dumped him and a good offer came. It's absolutely the same in my eyes. We chose someone over him - it really matters little it was Cesc, but maybe for him it did because Cesc has been a cunt to him in the past - but he can't choose another club over us (although it's not even choosing a club over us as we dumped him in the first place, it's more like being forced to move on). We'll never agree. It feels to me it's lack of loyalty from the fans, but I'm not judging anyone. Those things are emotions, you can't help how you feel. If you feel betrayed or disappointed or disgusted or whatever, you can't help. I feel nothing, except hate towards the situation itself. I hate him there, but I don't judge him at all.

because the same way it was the best for Chelsea to replace one of its legends for a cunt (I love my cunt, okay?) that played for one of our rivals, it's best for Frank to go to loan on a team like City. See? Thats the other side of the coin everyone keeps ignoring. I know some of us haven't accepted Cesc yet, some will take a long time (but will be calling him a Chelsea legend like they did with Cole if he has a similar journey here), but in general, people are just happy we improved our team by letting old, struggling Frank Lampard go, to have a brand new young guy that could win us the title, so we can make decisions based on what is best for us, but he can't because he wasn't forced to? Sounds selfish imo and a double standard. Did Chelsea and its fans care we were letting a legend go because we wanted to improve the team? So he should care that instead of making what's best for his career he should think of Chelsea fans?

but City even isn't our rivals like that!!!! That's the part I don't get. They're title contenders, but they aren't rivals. If he was moving to Burnley everyone would be fine because they're not title contenders (the moment I read people saying they'd rather him go to QPR I lost it, next he should go to West Ham and Fulham). It's how small our loyalty to our legends is. Sorry, I can't agree with any of it. It doesn't taint anything. It's a bad situation, one that leaves with a little vomit in my mouth about the situation, not about Frank. exactly what I've been saying. We dumped him and that's nice and dandy. We didn't need him anymore because he's passed it and was even compromising us, so we said he should go, then we thanked his services, made our homages and worshiped him. Then a professional decision he makes and we're saying it's disgusting and that it taints his image. How does it work? That's not how I treat people I love and who I respect for what they've done for me (as a fan). As I said, I see loyalty issues with fans turning their back to him, not with him making a professional choice.

So 12 years of service, dedication, playing when his mother just passed, giving his all for us is forgotten and erased because he could help a rival win a title? It isn't a couple of goals that decide a title anyway. Who's to say if he supposedly scores a few goals that gives City the title any other player on his place wouldn't too? People are being a bit deluded thinking he'll give them the title. He was here last season and City won the title anyway, so how is that? If City wins and Frank scores or assists a few goals, it won't because of those goals. All we need to win a title is have more points and goals difference if there's a points draw. It's still on us if we don't win. Last season WE lost the title more than City won it with our defeats to Palace, Villa, Sunderland... Frank Lampard isn't the player that makes a team win a title anymore, if he was, he'd be here... He's still a great player, but he's struggling physically to keep up with the league for a while now. If that for some miracle happens, well, it's unfortunate, but the odds of it happening are ridiculously small. But even if that completely deluded and nonsensical idea that Frank Lampard will help City win titles and will strengthen them somehow comes to reality (I think Jesus second coming might happen way before that, but let's be crazy for a bit), does it erase all he's done to this club? If that's the case it's not him I'll say is lacking loyalty. Fans saying they're disappointed, disgusted and whats not by his decision are worse than his supposed 'betrayal' imo. It sucks, I'll agree with everyone on that, I wish he didn't come to England at all, but it's his prerogative as a very competitive professional... Again, we let him go first, he didn't ask to leave. I don't think the Abramovich convo was that light. We barely renewed his contract a year and a couple of months ago. If we weren't that willing back then why would we be now? Roman probably said the club's doors are opened for him AFTER he retires, not to play. It was our decision. Then he made his. We're still Chelsea, he still loves us, he's said as much. He's still Lamps, legend to this club and he still has my absolute respect. I hate the situation, but I still love and respect Frank as I did yesterday.

next there will be pictures of Chelsea #8 shirts being burned. I'll keep away from twitter because only the thought of that makes me cringe. It sucks, but well, that's life and he's a professional. I can't demand loyalty from him when we as a club couldn't offer the same. We couldn't (didn't want) offer him a new contract. Where he goes from there on is on his best interest. I saw the loan to City coming the moment he signed for NYC people even mentioned it here. I thought it was a possibility, not a given, I'll hate seeing him in the fade blue of them, but I agree with you that they aren't even our traditional rivals. I'm just happy he didn't go to QPR on loan. That would be disgusting, but still wouldn't have erased who he is for us and for me.

I'm saying there's no need, if Mourinho agrees is another completely different story. But with Cesc in the team and all the praise he's been receiving from Mourinho, there's a possibility for that to come true and not only be my wishful thinking. Cesc is the answer for the defensive, bus parked teams we struggled last year, one would think he'd replace Ramires, but maybe he could play in the AM

even more with Cesc behind him. To be honest that formation doesn't work even on paper imo. We'd be ran over even worse than Arsenal normally is. We'd be easy preys for any team's midfield.

I think his first plan will be to have Fabregas #8 and Oscar #10, one balancing out each other defensively and offensively. If Oscar continues to be in bad form, I think he'll try Willian before moving Cesc there. There's absolutely no reason to play Ramires in around 70% of our matches in EPL and that's why I see Cesc playing in the pivot.

but our set up is completely different from Arsenal's, he wouldn't have half the freedom he had at Arsenal here and I'm not so sure with more things in his mind he'd be that effective. We just have to test him out there.