The only place to be

Completely forgot about that match. I imagine it would almost certainly get a mention in the programme and either before the match or at half-time.

When you use reductive language like 'Mikel Hater' you lose any right to get all uppity about people using similarly simplistic terms.

Are you fucking kidding? He earns £75k pw for starters, and he's simply not good enough for Arsenal nor does he fit the profile they typically purchase, especially when they have Arteta and Flamini already there. They're interested in either Khedira (genuine top class) or Carvalho (young with massive potential). Mikel is not the player for them, but congratulations on trying.....don't look at this as a failure, simply a stepping stone to eventually being right about something. I haven't mentioned 'real fans' once in this discussion. I've simply pointed out to you that there are posters on this forum who actually have links and personal relationships with people who have knowledge of what is going on at this (and other) clubs. That's how the real world works. People develop these links over time, which is why people like Richard Keys (who has been a sports journo for 40 years) still gets insider knowledge despite being overseas still....I know you were confused about that when he revealed Courtois would be starting against Burnley. Don't get all derisive and dismissive just because you don't want to accept these truths. It's just the way the world works and you might actually come to understand that one day. Hang in there kid

So we loan him to a club (a club, no specific club just a club despite there being no interest in him) who are able to either pay his wages or pay us a loan fee. Can you actually think of a club who would want him? A £75k pw player who is really only comfortable as a holding midfielder when parking the bus. The queue must be round the block. There's a reason he only gets linked with Turkish and Italian teams - he's not suited to fast-paced football. Actually there are overseas fans who have posted interesting, informative information. You deriding fans who actually post information that you simply don't have access to is pretty pathetic. BTW I'm not xenophobic - I've gone to matches with supporters from all over the world and even bought the odd one a drink (because I'm awesome like that ) so how about you leave the name-calling to people who can actually use accurate words. Ok treacle

Forgot that cunt was there. It's just a lot of travel, early kick-offs and shitty pitches to deal with without a storyline about mentor vs master again. Honestly this year I'm not fussed. Wouldn't mind us getting any of the teams to be honest, although we've had Juve, Schalke, Shaktar, Basel and PSG in recent years. Dortmund would be different at least.

Deriding them as conspiracy theories simply because you don't want to believe them is hilarious. What are you struggling to understand about it being nigh-on impossible to move a player on if they have a contract and don't want to leave? Even someone with no experience of the working world must've at least a vague understanding of these things. So you tell us. If a player is in the middle of a contract, wants to remain in the country for a few more months to acquire a fairly valuable passport and no other club in the country is a viable option, what exactly are the options? Come on Choulo, in a purely hypothetical situation, what EXACTLY can an employer do? Gets popcorn....

There are clubs who would be interested if the player wanted to leave. The thing is he doesn't, he has a contract and he's well-paid. Silly little boys who don't understand that footballers are humans with their own agendas and needs think it's as simple as right-clicking on a player's name and highlighting 'sell' are so out of touch with reality that it's laughable. It's not just a lack of understanding of the football world, but of the working world from infantile man-childs who have no experience of such things. He has a contract, he doesn't want to leave....that's pretty much the end of the matter for now. Van Ginkel is an ambitious young man who would be paid the same on the same contract if he went to Milan. Torres's objections apparently stem not from footballing reasons but purely contractual issues (according to reports - I'll admit I have no greater knowledge of what's going on beyond what is reported).

In what way does it not add up? His agent has made it clear he's not interested in a move until he gets his passport (which actually helps certain teams because he'd be an EU national) and he's got enough good will at the club for them to grant him that. After that he'll be off, in the summer at the very latest. His problem is that no clubs in this country wanted him at the wages they were quoted. As for you taking the piss out of members like me who are actually informed about things around the club either because we know people or simply go to places where information is common knowledge, I'll just assume it's the bitterness of having to follow a club from afar on Twitter. This is a forum for supporters and you should just be grateful that informed supporters actually share their knowledge with you about what's happening at this club. Don't take the piss.

PSG would be a couple of tricky games, but I'd love us to get them again because it's a great away day. From that perspective fuck getting teams from Russia, Ukraine or Bulgaria. Ajax and Anderlecht would be nice teams to draw too.

Yes it has improved dramatically but of course injuries affect that. I suppose what people could do is wait until the transfer window is closed to properly judge it but where's the fun in that?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the people I know over your opinion. Deriding people who are closer to the truth than you could ever hope to be as 'Mikel haters' is pretty fucking pathetic. You don't seem to understand that if a player doesn't want to leave when he's under contract then there's not much you can do. You just have to accept that you're simply out of the loop, uninformed and wildly wrong about certain things.

If Costa is injured then he's got to be an option for Saturday surely? Drogba either starting or off the bench and this guy are preferable to Torres who will hopefully be gone before then.

Obviously no-one knows the extent of the injury so put the razor blades down for a second people. We're clearly trying to move Torres on, we've been linked with Destro and we still have Drogba, although I'd also be inclined to throw in Bamford. It's not ideal but it's not the disaster that some are making it out to be.

On the other hand they just lost their main striker for 3 months and now have £25 million to replace him.

Think I'm right in saying that this is the first time we've drawn Bolton in the league cup since Matthew Harding (and his party) sadly died on the way back from the match. Will be almost 19 years ago. Would expect the club to do something to acknowledge this. Decent enough draw though. Hope to see the fringe players given a run-out. Match on week commencing September 22nd.

HOME to Bolton Wanderers.

Lucky pricks.

They're both still here though. You understand that right? Van Ginkel has apparently turned the move down and Torres is very much dictating his situation. Yes there were rumours. Mikel simply wasn't going. You have some weird arguments sometimes.

Luiz, Lukaku and Ba all wanted to leave. Torres hasn't left yet. Van Ginkel apparently doesn't want to leave either, and he hasn't. I'm basing it on things I've heard from people I trust. He's eligible for a passport in October, no-one in this country wants to buy him and he doesn't want to leave until he's got it. Can't do much if he doesn't want to leave, but people at the club think he's served us well enough to deserve it.

So you're saying that we could sell Mikel, but Jose actually wants him here? What are you basing that on?

So you're saying that Mikel doesn't want a British passport then? Van Ginkel can do the Mikel job. Mikel doesn't do a single special thing.

Fuck going to Donetsk.

I think that if he had gone then he'd have been done here, so I'm glad he's sticking around. We may well need him as the games get closer and at the start of next year when Mikel has better things to do than play for this club.

If his wages are off the books then it frees up money for a new striker, and a non-HG spot. Stating the obvious I know, but it's still worthwhile. If it doesn't go ahead I hope Milan make it clear that it was his fault.

Ed Woodward offered £27 million for it.