robsblubot

fair enough - rate Carrick very differently than most people do. Good player, but nothing special. His long passing is better than Mickel's though. Cole had a poor game because he was marking Coleman and was constantly under pressure because Everton blocked the sides. Mikel on the other hand loses possesion on his own when given space. He's not marked tightly and still cannot produce anything in attack. That's *also* a fair criticism of his game and I will stop as soon as he can produce something in attack.

let's have him score his first goal for Chelsea first... Or perhaps produce his first assist for chelsea... see the problem here? And you are talking about a hattrick...

yes he did. So did Luiz, Terry, Cole, Iva all defenders. My point remains that's not enough for a midfielder. I do see his defensive contribution, but that's just not good enough for me. He needs to be able to pick a long pass, assist, shoot, be a surprise (unmarked) player when things are tough like they were today. I reckon he does not have the quality for that though - showcased by his bizarre loss of possession inside the opponent's box. I guess we are the only top side left in the world who employ a Makelele type of player... oh well

yes I did see the same... kept possession and all, most of the time without much pressure on him. Is that enough though? Is that all you look for in a midfielder? When he takes a shot it out of the stadium; when he enters the opponent's box he loses possession on his own. That's why he is *allowed* keep the ball! He's the one chelsea midfielder our opponents can leave alone. Heck they mark Luiz more than Mikel because statistically (number just don't lie) nothing good in attack comes from him. the praising would make more sense if we did not fucking lose the game.

he was looking good until started fucking up... needs a long rest and show something in training (finishing) before starting again.

yup. he can turn and pass sideways - give him a medal! his contribution in attack is actually negative. Pretty embarrassing play when he got inside the box and lost possession on his own. He's just a one-dimensional midfielder, which should not be good enough for Chelsea.

unless they lose Giroud, because they've got no replacement - good we did not let them have Ba.

normally I'd agree, but nothing is normal about this performance...

too many players inside the box need to try long shots too

Eto lacks pace -- big surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

Eto lacks pace -- bit surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

Eto lacks pace -- bit surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

we are talking about different things here. Quality is quality! Let's not label it or categorize it, just recognize it can be bought and top clubs do just that. That's why guys like David are worth big money too! What I am talking about, however, is the trick of making quality players produce the defensive work necessary to win titles; that's what makes Mourinho a top manager in my view. We could go into single-elimination ratios and goals, but bringing Basketball or American football in the discussion is wrong because those are higher scoring games, and football/soccer is a low scoring game. Especially in single-elimination competitions conceding a goal is often the end of it, especially in finals. Go trhough many finals and look at the scores; they are going to be low... very low and whoever scores first has a huge advantage. Now, I don't think mata can defend if you hold a gun to his head. I hope I am wrong, but that's how I see him. Allow me illustrate my point: is Ribery a defensive player? Or the fact he can apply pressure on the ball and regain possession high up the pitch a defensive trait? Does it help scoring goals? If so, how can it be defensive? The fact Mata is not very good defensively cannot be seen as a mere characteristic, but rather what it is, a deficiency! Yes, he's still an excellent player, but just not as good as make him out to be here... again very IMHO.

Yes, it's all about the defense; it does win titles btw (while offense sells tickets and shirts). For me, and I reckon Mourinho too, the bold dilemma above is no dilemma at all. I'm very aware of Mata's numbers. It is my belief, however, that 2 Matas are already 2 too many (Hazard being the other one). Same reasoning why you would not play with 3 or 4 players with Mata characteristics, or play a player like that as CM. It's just that at certain level these details do matter and I think that's exactly where Mourinho excels: handling the finer details of top top level sides.

what's his contract situation? I heard he was in talks for a renewal, but nothing since then. I reckon this is certainly part of what is going on. Perhaps Chelsea (no so much Mourinho) are showing Mata he is not *that* important for the money his agent may be asking... I maintain my position that it is very difficult to accommodate both Hazard and Mata in any starting XI.

agree in principle, but not about the cash-even top ones.. GK aren't sold for a lot of cash, perhaps the position least valuable in football. I think Petr is a top GK but I don't agree he is number one; I see many other GK just as good, especially these younger ones. Lloris is already fantastic! What he did against Arsenal, even though they lost that match, was incredible. Not that Arsenal played that much better, but they had a clear cup chances in counters which were stopped by LLoris. Liverpool's Mignolet is class too-a lot better than the overrated Reina. I too think it would be a mistake to lose Courtois and if the right offer comes in, Petr should be sold. It'd be a good thing for him too because they do make money out of the transfer itself, bonuses etc. It could be a nice farewell gift/"last contract" for him.

I'm just not sure it's about quality, but rather characteristics (and yes a bit of quality too). Giroud can play in tight spaces, Ba and Torres need space to maneuver, which was honestly a big disappointment (for me) concerning Ba because I thought a guy of his build would be able to use his body to play in tight spaces. Neither have the short passing, quick dribbling that you see Oscar do for example (from futsal). Neither can head the ball very well. Giroud I reckon has more of that, but I agree we still need to see it happen. Playing for a big club like Chelsea is a bit different (understatement) than playing for newcastle, all due respect. That's *probably* the reason Chelsea are still not convinced Lukaku is really ready, because WBA play counter-attacking football and Lukaku had a lot of space to work with. Everton will be the real test for him as they play more as a possession side, even their strikers/players aren't that quick. Anyway, can't wait... this season is shaping up real good.

No, I did not. Because it adds nothing to a discussion or a thread. Same to you buddy. Imagine if we bought players as poor as Torres and Ba for the amount of money we did (including wages here spec for Ba) Chelsea would be in the gutters... How about we start discussing the merits of the argument rather than how we feel about each others opinions? I am entitled and do feel the same way about opinions contrary to mine, but at least I take the time to argue. This is going to be Giroud's second season in the Premiere, so I reckon he's going to surprise a lot of people. He's a good footballer. I look at him, not just go to whoscored.com, and see a player who can go past his man (more so now because he's gained some pace), can head the ball, and is OK playing in tight spaces. Neither Ba nor Torres can do all of that (spec heading part). So, in my personal opinion, Giroud is better and more complete than both. BTW, Ba would have joined Arsenal on loan to replace Bendtner, not Giroud who would be the starter, as he should be.

lol moron! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lol: wow feel younger already...

lol I'd trade Giroud for both Ba and Torres in a heartbeat....

It's not that Mikel is not aggressive enough, but rather he's actually very passive for the role of an enforcer. He should be able to infringe physical pain when things get rough and I just don't see that in him; Toure does that, and so does Ramires. I like Tiote as well, but he's too much like Ramires, like you said. I'd rather go a for a tall midfielder, who is still more mobile and aggressive than Mikel, perhaps Capoue (now @Spurs). Perhaps MVG is going to be molded into the role (CM rather than DM though).

Just don't understand the surprise by the club that they were unable to unload Ba... Something predicted by a few of us on Demba Ba's Thread. He's a decent player on high wages, which is a bad combo. Chelsea wouldn't want to loan him and still pay over 50% of his wages, and only a club like Arsenal would be able to afford his full wages. No surprise we've been having trouble unloading unwanted players... thought WC proximity would help more in that regard.

agreed. And I reckon he won't be getting too many games at pool either. I don't think he's good enough for Rotation at Chelsea. We now have rotation players who can come on and influence the game, which is something Moses cannot do. Andre, KDB, and Willian are far better footballers.

Completely agree! he scored(?!) the goal, but that was it. Poor first touch, movement, decision making... he had a poor game actually. Always goes for the dribble vs the assist/pass. Suarez is twice the player. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have him than Ba, but then don't think Ba asked for a first team/key player deal which is what I reckon Sturridge did.

Oscar has short passing, short dribbling skills that are extremely helpful in tight spaces aka big matches... He started playing soccer in futsal, saloon football with a smaller heavier (lighter these days) football. Always fucking hated playing futsal, because of the constant tight spaces, but that's why I'm a better tennis player than footballer. The fact a 21/22 yo consistently starts for Brazil should be all evidence one needs.