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He had a good game against Everton, but even when he has a good game he isn't influential enough. Matic on the other hand... The most interesting for me is that Mikel is considered to be a good passer of the ball - not by me. Unless you are specifically talking about short passing, passing includes many different abilities, some of which Mikel severely lacks. Take his shooting for example, worst of all our midfielders (including Luiz). Technique wise, shooting from distance isn't much different from long passing - he can't do neither. Now we go into short flicks, quick lobs, like the one Luiz made for Azpi (against United or Pool?). Quick flicks are also difficult for him because he lacks mobility, so his passing is done from a very static position - normally sideways. Honestly I've never seen him give an assist or a nice quick pass to set up a quick counter or movement. The same argument, that I use for Luiz, market valuation, does not quite work for Mikel. As pointed out by others, only medium and smaller sides show any interest in him.

Pathetic performance by City any way you look at it - they've managed to lose the tie already and playing at home... One day people will understand that scoring or conceding isn't about mistakes, at least not always. Talent forces situations to take place, which some call "mistakes."

I don't disagree on everything with TPtB, but tend to emphasize and nit pick the disagreements in discussions. However, concerning De Niro guy, I don’t seem to even watch the same sport as he does. Comparing the technical ability of Terry and Luiz is really ridiculous. You put Terry in midfield and he’d be completely lost – a liability like many here like to say. His technical ability is good albeit very CB like. David Luiz is twice the player Terry is when taking first touch, passing (long, short, little flicks), shooting, and dribbling alone. The same way John Terry is twice the player David Luiz is when you take into consideration reading of the game, aerial, blocking, decisions, leadership (the mental aspects). I don’t deny that; my point has always been that different systems take advantage of different types of players, including Cbs. In the current Mourinho system Luiz is wasted in defense. His attributes are wasted there and he lacks the ones that are needed, again in the current system. In other systems, the mechanics of the team would allow him to move into midfield in a seamless way (because it provides the necessary cover). This IS currently done by Brazil or do you think they let David Luiz exposed at all times?! Only one person thinks Luiz is a bad player, without any merit, and that person dismisses any talks about valuation, THE most tangible evidence we’ve got. It’s up to HIM to disprove David Luiz valuation in the market though, because it is what it is. He is the reason I think technical merit is NOT the only thing being taken into account when assessing DL as a player. BTW, TPtB, Thiago Silva is a short CB absolutely TERRIBLE in the air. Yes, his reading and decisions are indeed better than Luiz’ but not much else.

Rumor has it that Cavani is unhappy in Paris (if that's even possible); OK he's unhappy at PSG! According to the independent PSG is going to bid for Luiz in the summer. If true, it could give us a way into signing Cavani. I like David Luiz, esp in midfield where he can be more influential, but Cavani is the type of player who gets you silverware. The perfect striker for us IMO. Cavani and Lukaku with Andre as a 3rd striker option...

on the contrary - it seem to be alive and well! The mere fact that this thread has been so lively on Saturday is evidence enough for me. If you think DL had anything to do with the fucking spanking we got today, then you are either delusional or disingenuous. He is one player and a defender nonetheless. I take Kompany must have had a terrible game when we beat them before. BTW, no mistake led to City's win! Nobody handed City anything! 11 players/a team was beaten. City stretched our defense in the first AND second goals. In the second goal, they put a man behind our defense line! There was no man to follow; all their forwarders had to do was run past our defense line to tap in. Most goals are scored in this fashion. People here have an obsession with defenders as if they are the influential players who win you titles, even though history will tell a completely different story. whatever... yes, John Terry would have been a lot more solid against City, whatever "solid" means.

You are right from an external point of view. We just don't have the information though. In any corporation, success is only defined by the requirements, by what was expected of him to begin with, and we don't know what was expected of him. Perhaps the club has been telling him, 'no' every time he asks for anything, but they need him for the job they wanted done, which is to keep on producing and selling players - making money in the process. To your point though, Wenger's lack of ambition over so many years would indeed showcase his limitations as a manager; a top manager would never remain working under such conditions for long - Jose wouldn't.

never! btw, there is no way Jose is right on this one. Say, if Wenger is indeed a quack, and some of his tactics may suggest that, then he is still a winner for having fooled a big club like Arsenal for all these years. On the other hand, the most plausible explanation is that Wenger is really not that great in tactics and formations, but excels at building and developing players on the cheap, which makes him an asset for clubs interested in playing the transfer market as opposed to win silverware - still a guy with a fat paycheck.

yup, they all leave just before turning into winners. It's a vicious circle really as some say you develop winners by winning. Pretty vicious comments by Jose, even though they are all true. It also somewhat diminishes the importance of the people who have worked along with him - not to mention the clubs.

OK, lets get our facts right first...David Luiz has NEVER seen a red card for Chelsea. Contrary to John Terry in the CL semi as I remember, who picked up the silliest of the cards at the worst possible time. We value different aspects of the game, including in defending. Different footballing schools value different aspect which is normal. I do understand this, but some other people here don't seem to be able to agree to disagree.

folks he's obviously not English enough as only the English know how to defend in football. After all all other top sides have English defenders, especially in England. David Luiz should be sold in the summer so we can make funds to buy Ryan Shawcross - a proper Englishman with a serious face and short haircut. We can even buy a few of "them" with the money.

@The Skipper, you are wasting your time. Some folks here never kicked a ball in their life. That was an unstoppable play caused by a perfect cross. You'd need a defender who was NOT man marking to see the cross first - assuming Victor does not know the crosser from practice. It's possible but it would have taken a perfect reading, pace, and luck. Some folks here also have a problem with logic; they are good removing the deficiencies of the players they replace in their minds, but not taking into account the deficiencies of the substitutes. Say, Terry were on the pitch and there is no Victor goal (a wild assumption as he's pretty pacey) there is no backheel flick from Luiz and no Iva goal: result 0x0 (also an assumption). Did we not press with a high defense line for 70min of the match either?! That's Luiz' specialty and he looked pretty good then. Furthermore, lets assume that in the situation we were in in the last 20 min or so, under pressure and all, we'd rather have Terry than Luiz on the pitch. This is fair as Terry shines in those situations. However, in other situations that's not the case: like I said, when pressing your opponent in midfield like we tried to do for most of the match. Is it fair to expect Luiz to be as composed as Terry in those particular situations, even though David Luiz is a lot better than Terry in others? Isn't Terry any good then if Luiz has to match Terry in what Terry does best even though it's really not Luiz' virtue? I find this discussion repetitive as we've coming to the same conclusions over and over again: about what his deficiencies are and what his virtues are. The same people focus on his deficiencies and the same others on his virtues. I will just agree to disagree on this one.

yeah, his play wasn't great, but the cross was really good. I've learned over the years that when a GK leaves the goal to intercept the football he should be damn sure to finish the job because if he misses it, the goal will be exposed. Still, we were just too shitty in the last 20 minutes to want anything other than what we got.

Munich (only a rumor), Champions League (fact), plays well for Brazil (fact), only form, (who knows) why else would Barca value him at £30 million (false Barca made a 21m offer in the summer so that's his current valuation) future captain (maybe Brazil), sun was in his eyes (hey whatever works for you - not judging) just though I should set the record straight... separate fact from fiction... I honestly think it was mikel's fault.

Or there is a simpler explanation, which Jose has been hinting at, but it's difficult for supporters to accept: our team may not be as good as we think it is. We need 100% focus to be in the game during the 90 mins and that can be accomplished sometimes and in some games, but not all the time during a long championship. Thankfully the opponents aren't that superior either, so we might have a shot despite of what our pragmatic manager says. We will find out soon enough.

goal was nobody's fault ... bunch of crazy people here. Perfect cross in right between the 2 CBs. Allows a smart player to meet it like he did. Should not have let those crosses take place though. We've been bad in the last 20-30 mins and if you don't see that and keep looking for 1/11th scapegoats, maybe you should be watching tennis instead.

Well by producing so many set piece situations we've upped the odds of getting something out of them. Nice flick from Luiz and Iva is on a roll! Luiz first (and only) touch to control a long ball in front of an opponent a moment before was just pretty incredible. Almost too much technique for a defender. We've been playing well - now WBA will open up which makes imperative we hit them on the break and kill this game right away. This is a must win esp with this starting XI.

true from the player's perspective. however, for the club, all it matters is whether Lukaku would be able to contribute more than Demba Ba, which is not that difficult. Lukaku has made a case that he could be more influential than Demba Ba in my view. Well, I guess it's not all that matters... Difficult to know how disruptive Lukaku would've been as a 3rd striker had he stayed. Despite his technical deficiencies, Demba Ba is very professional and appears to be a team player (not to mention a good guy). @Stingray, that's not bias as most if not all world class strikers have been very good technical players. His technical ineptitude will always hold him back, no matter how powerful and quick he may be. He still can improve technically, but it's the toughest area to develop.

good points. Though I'd insist by saying that a duck is still a duck no matter what you call it. I'm all for rounded players, but when you have Arteta as your most defensive player in the midfield in a tough away match, there must be something wrong with your strategy and/or tactics. The other players are even more lightweight. Is it fair to ask Cazorla to go and win all aerial duels for example?

Chelsea starting XI for a tough away game (City): Petr Cech Ivanovic Gary Cahill John Terry Azpi Matic David Luiz Ramires Willian Eden Hazard Eto'o * 3 offense and 8 defense minded players. Arsenal starting XI for a tough away game (liverpool): Szczesny Sagna Per Mertesacker Koscielny Monreal Arteta Wilshere Oxlade-Chamberlain Ozil Cazorla Giroud * 5 offense and 6 defense minded players. * I'm being nice to Arteta here as he's hardly DM material. I honestly don’t know whether Wenger is arrogant, clueless, or both… And the funny thing is that Arsenal fans have been brainwashed by Wenger and think that it was a sensitive way to face a tough away match… I know Flamini was unavailable, but how about spending some money on defense players? Or how about using another defender (in midfield or defense), like some *other* managers do when needed. You know what some folks call tactics and formations...

He (or they) was not 100% which is why they rested Ramires. City took too much from the players, spec midfield. Ramires Matic and Willian ran more than 7 miles in the City match.

Wenger is massively overrated... Yes, he's good at building good teams on the cheap, but that's about it. Not a single word about the absolutely ridiculous starting XI he chose for a tough away match against Liverpool?! Flamini may not have been available (his own fault there is no sub for him), but another manager would've played a defender in midfield, or a 3-defender system, anything. BTW, not complaining as I absolutely fucking loved it, but his strategy is puzzling sometimes.

agreed but the 50 yard pass to Hazard was even better - Hazard did not even have to stretch his leg to pick it up. We just have to hope that he has the discernment about when to go for a more defensive stance, like he did in the CL final back then. And he needs to throw himself in front of shots more as his blocking was nowhere to be found. He can't rely exclusively on anticipation.

Understand where you are coming from, but you've just said Mikel is just as bad... We never said Mikel should not play football for example; just that Chelsea could/should do better than him in that position. And I agree he's just as comfortable as a deep lying CM or even moving ahead. He's a lot better than Fellaini for the same price - bargain!

indeed and that's the amount of risk it takes to win big. Yes, Terry would've been a more solid option with better aerial and blocking. Luiz didn't do the offside line well enough and that's going to become a problem as he moves to midfield and then back to defense. Why should've played with a more solid backline against newcastle at the bridge? Take for example the 2nd goal: Luiz (bad?!) instincts made him move to the left, even though Chelsea was not completely out of the woods yet. Still it paid off because he was there to quickly pull the counter, which found willian in pace. There was another play where Luiz sets up Hazard with an absolutely perfect 50 yard pass. The decision of when to play luiz in defense, or in the middle, or not at all depends really on Mourinho's tactics, obviously. Aside from WH game, Jose seems to get this better than any other manager. Look at what happened to Arsenal when they started with a single holding mid away from home - if you can call Arteta that.... In contrast with WH match, this was a perfect line up to beat a weaker side into oblivion, which is exactly what happened.

lol there are a million of other things more likely to change: job, wife, car (in this order) I've been supporting Chelsea since pre-abra time (Hasselbaink was the ST). I can support Mikel and other *decent* players as I'm used to it. And Barcelona of all things... crap there is no 'vomit' emoticon... or Spain... Bayern would have more chance, since it's where my ancestors came from (that area). They wear red though, which is just unfortunate. so... nope Chelsea it is. TPTB, I think everyone agrees CG is indeed doing a fine job.