Tomo

Sign Jermaine Beckford, give him the same amount of chances and excuses Torres got and he would score a few some being crucial, law of averages and that.Let's say for argument sake Cuardardo completely bombs but we give him chance after chance law of averages would suggest he would still give us some memorable moments.

Come on, that honour will/should be Fernandos for a very long time.

Maybe he's just a very good squad option like our Hernandez type?

But on the flip side, Mou has been criticised in recent month's for going a bit Benitez in taking a while to react to situations.

Avrams first few months were on par with Hiddinks in term's off results, doesn't mean much without context. WE had a decent start under RDM but after United we were in complete freefall, we may not have "yet" fell down the table but every sign was it was going to happen, it's better to act in advance rather than wait, if we acted early with ScolarI, Hiddink might have recovered the title. Also you cite the United robbery fair enough but Anfield that season was just as big an injustice.

That's how United won a lot of title's, play the footy in the first half off the season and just get it done in the second.Even so this comment is bad timing, today was totally convincing performance, it was only the freakiest goal off the season that kept this a contest.

I just checked the table wr were 4 off city, 3 off United so we actually gained on City, United went on a freak run off form after that so hardly fair to use them as a sticking post. What Rafa did was give us a bit of shape and discipline, he did subtle things like improve Hazards work rate for example, little things Jose built on, I mean Mou needed a year to sort the squad out, if we gave RDM the season it would have took longer, in my opinion. Re the United game, we needed to throw on Hazard and co to save the day and even then only just managed it.

It was good at the start till about November because I believed AVB was going to do good with us, December till AVBs departure was a complete mess but the RDM spell was quite exciting culminating in a double win against all odds. Obviously means to an end an all that but I after Naples especially thought we were heading down the same path Milan have found their way down.

Sometimes things need to be looked at in context, the season should be evalued in two ways for me, trophies and progression made by the club. Like in 11/12 I was ecstastic with what we won but anything but happy with our overall performance in the season whereas last season I obviously wasn't happy going trophyless but happy with progress made.

While replacing RDM with Rafa was wrong on every sentimental level, it was right for the evolution of the club. RDM for me was the tale of two jobs, his interim spell he did amazing even before putting the two trophies into account, he managed to rally a squad of players that looked lost and devoid of motivation and won the double against all odds, I still to this day argue against the people who say he just sat there and let the player's take charge. The full time job however was too much for him and Roman forsaw that which is why he hesitated giving him the gig in the first place, I can't prove it but my theory is he wanted to make the change in the summer but held back because he didn't want to ruin our "summer in the clouds" after Munich, all this talk when Robbie was sacked of Roman disrespecting the fans but i honestly think he only gave RDM the full time job in the first place because we wanted it so much. In his full time spell we looked a better more talented version of his WBA team, started well, had some impressive results but quickly got found out and nosedived massively after that, 2 wins in 9 (one of them being in ET against Uniteds ressies) isn't just bad form, it's relegation form. Rafa and Chelsea was the ultimate marriage of convenience for both parties.

Roy would draw 1-1 to Gilbratar at home and say "we showed great spirit and really deserved our point"

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

Sorry but I just don't get how that's contradictory, good but not world class players or even average can get sold for high prices (look at Southampton), our squad was basically a bunch players that fell into that category, who in that squad was serious top class material at that time? Cech that's about it, JT had a poor season and Hazard wasn't quite their at the time.Jose obviously didn't negotiate the high prices, but he does deserve credit for turning us into title material on effectively a sell to buy model, Wenger got praised for keeping Arsenal in the top 4 doing that likewise Rafa Liverpool, Jose goes as step further and turns a top 4 challenging squad at best into title material with little net spend and barely even gets credit by his own supporters. Also while we are on the subject of Arsenal, in 2013 us and Arse both scraped top 4 late on in the season, since then Jose has turned us into title with a £36m net spend while Arsensl have spent over £100m net and are no better than they were 2 years ago, poor Wenger hey, he can't compete because he has no money What im about to say isn't aimed at you but I am just baffled why some people just won't say even the slightest bit of praise for the most successful manager in the history of this club, and worse some go out of their way to criticise him, it's just baffles me the lack of respect for a man that done so much for us and gave and is still giving us so many great times, let's say for argument sake Shankley was still alive and went back to manage Liverpool, could you imagine one single Liverpool fan saying anything close to the shit vybz kartel (previously Tinshe) amongst others say about Mourinho? He told him to go fuck himself before we were about to play a CUP FINAL, that for me is unacceptable.

We had an absolute unbalanced mess off a squad when Mou returned, no top class CM, no top class striker, Terry looking like he was past it, attacking midfield we had Mata who was great but since has been proved he isn't top top bracket, Hazard who is but was really young infact bar Cech we had not one top bracket player anywhere near the prime, infact the more I look back at that squad the more I think Rafa performed a minor miracle getting us 3rd and EL. Jose with a £36m net spend has turned that unbalanced mess (£9m per transfer window for perspective) into genuine title contenders, the fact that there is a general reluctance to credit him for that is quite frankly mind blowing.

I wasn't talking solely about Jose, even between Jose tenures, look at how we beat Arsenal all the time, Stay solid, let them do there pointless passing, then counter them knowing Wenger is an idiot who will commit so many men forward and we score.Although no one should ever be a Jose apologist, he is only the most successful manager in the clubs history after all!!!!!!!

Madrid are too attacking, the main point is solid counter attacking teams (Atletico) will beat attack based teams like Madrid more often than not.And I wasn't talking about the CL win, I was more on about few years before that, look at how Ancelotti approached our games against Arsenal or how Hiddink nullified Barca by being solid and hitting them on the counter. Teams who think fuck it lets attack at all costs don't get anywhere in the grand scheme of things. Also Real aren't doing good for their standards, they spent millions and still remain in Barcelonas shadow. And you cite United, Fergie was also quite adaptable especially in his later years, he often "parked the bus" in big games in order to get the result, he did so at the Nou Camp in 2008 with arguably his best ever team.

If attack is the best form of defence why do Real have such a shit record vs Atletico this season and why have we been seeing off those type of teams for years?

Dad supports Arsenal. Brother's support Arsenal, Liverpool and Sunderland. Nan supports Liverpool. Grandad supports Wolves. Cousin supports West Ham. So in summary, no.

The importance of team balance gets higher every year, even Brendan Rodgers is starting to smell the coffee.

Looking at it in an individual perspective then yes of course massive mistake, infact there are similarities between KDB and Cesc, both didn't really fit with the style the club were trying to build, both got moved on for relitevely cheap prices and have been a revelation at their new clubs but at the same time the club's they left behind have also been on the up aswell. Any annoyance I may have about KDB is largely overwhelmed by how happy I am about the progress this club is making, but I guess im old school, it's not like we sold him while playing Kalou and post double Malouda, we sold him because we struggled to fit him in a team being built around arguably the 3rd best player in the world.I can't pretend I look at Barca forums but I can't imagine many of them have the type of overreaction this thread does every time Cesc scores or assists.

Hiddink?

1. They were given next to no chances to play, but made the most of the limited chances, in a competitive squad that is sometimes what you have to do, if you want me to compare KDB situation to an attacker in a similar pickle then read on to point 3. 2. Im not saying Salah is as good as him, just that the situation in the squad that both found themselves in was similar. 3. Harry Kane wasn't getting many chances but took what small chances he was getting and we know what has happened since. Him moving on was right for all parties involved, yes I know he might break the Bundesliga assist record but Cesc might do likewise in the prem yet Barca didn't make mistake letting him go. Im happy he is doing well, but am I losing much sleep over him while we sit with a great chance of our first league title in 5 years? sorry but im not. We've got better, he's got better.

Harry Kane never got a run of games to prove himself until he ummm well made the most of his limited chances to earn a place in the team.

Mata KDB and Cesc in the same team would have seen us beat by any decent balanced side with a tactical astute manager (ie look at what Leti have done to Madrid).

Fair point's there. Also out of interest has Tibo completely won you over because I know you had doubts at the start? (not a dig im just genuinely curious).