SeB

Bertrand was increasing during the game, I don't know how many runs upfront he made during the game but it's impressive. He was not as quick in his play as that we know about him but he did manage to do 120 pretty decent minutes and was not over before the end of the match although his energy spending. Romeu has a real quality to pass an opponent before a pass, it's the main thing I did notice with his calm and confidence. Otherwise although he was not a completely reliable defensive guarantee like Mikel, he did several good interventions. Lukaku had a good utilization of the ball upfront, he was usefull to allow to the team to go forward. The other players have to understand his play, he is not Drogba neither Torres or Anelka and he is not ready to receive passes on the wings in the space by example. He is quick without the ball but he has to improve the speed of his game

It's a question of dynamic, we can see that a team that crashed Tottenham, Arse and Bolton's poorest sides for years did effectively beat us ; it's jsut to be objective to say that they have an incredible winning out in everything they try, nothing new that a team with that quality can only gain from succeding all they try. I only notice their struggles against the only real team they faced so far ; West Bromwich Albion. It says all, one shot of target in all the game and winning thanks to an OG

I personally do prefer the 150 pro games guarrantee of Bertrand, his well balanced play between defense/attack than the excessive will to go forward of Van Aanholt

Thank you ! But he did so last season against Ipswich, :eyebrows: he was just lucky that the ref did not ruled out the goal because he was offside

Hopefully Orlando Sa is not ours like Scolari wanted, he just seems an average striker in a lot of domains... !

What can you reproach him of during the game versus Leverkusen ? He had a great activity as defensively as offensively, did remind by moments the left flank that crashed Marseille in CL. Tonight against Foolham he is very good. It's only a matter of rythm, he is 31 and like Lampard, Drogba or maybe Cole ; can have struggles to cope with the physical preparation. He is increasing For me his play has changed but not his contribution in the play.

Lateral passing and distribution is not his main role, he's a box-to-box and his vertical play with or without the ball is excellent. He really can't be blamed for lacking quality in passing in the midfield, it's like blaming Essien for not being able to cover properly the defense, it's not his main role and we all know what are their others strengths... He really has to do the link between midfield and attack, now he is the only player that has his precise role: help to defend, go forward with the ball or to provide support and cover Bosingwa's runs upfield. When Mikel will have his precise role (because it seemed in the pre-season & start of the PL that Villas Boas wanted him not to stop his runs and making him available higher) and when we will look closer to the reconversion of Lampard, it will become clearer and that kind of observations on that weakness of Ramires could not have a valid reason. It was the less worse choice, he did not lose the ball even if he was static. Kalou would have lost the ball in his deseperate will to try to make the difference and we could have been counter-attacked bloody. Now Torres is in proper conditions to be judged (state he was not since January) we can begin to talk about his play. One more piece of evidence that he is the most complete #9 in the world. And his "Drogba style" performance against Leverkusen relays on the width is an evidence that he adapts himself to the play of the team, and the Manure game showed that he could also use massively the space. Two minds that he did not have at Liverpool, he was only the space-player enjoying the through balls of Alonso or Gerrard. Pleased to say that his transfert to Chelsea is maybe the biggest step on his career because he has the ability to be the striker of a multi-modal playing team

So true... But of course it's Torres the mercenary, not Rooney ! This episode allowed to see how hypocrite are a big part of their fans

I'm surprised how people can't see that he just changed his way of playing and has not stopped his career and signed a representation contract with the club... Maybe he is not the 2009-2010 left winger who could humiliate that lot of defenders and sticking to the touchline, but he is equally usefull in the building of the goals, being able to switch the play, creating dangerous situations with his intelligence and vision...His volume of play is phenomenal, in the middle by example and he he is not as stupid as Kalou who would guzzle the space of the left back on the wing and lose the ball with a crap dribble

Can you remind me who's from the delivery for Torres' second goal... ?

Can't say more, I will follow your advice and vote tomorrow between these 2 ones

When I see the perfect quality of Ramires' deliveries through, I really wonder if he could not play beside Mata in a Christmas Tree behind Torres (our only striker able to go into space). He could make the link between midfield and attack with his pace and speed with the ball, and his great vision in the last tier... When we look closer, I don't know how many key passes (assist without goals ) in the space he has since he is at Chelsea, but most of them were absolutely brilliant. The one for Torres before his non-goal is the same as the one for Lukaku versus Norwich etc...

http://www.soccershouts.com/forum/topic/12911-manchester-united-vs-chelsea/

It's harsh to blame Villas Boas on his coaching but I have to say that his intentions were not that clear, we don't really know what was the aim of the team considering the lineup. It was not really tailored for the counter attack (because of Meireles and Lampard’s respective roles, which should have been swapped in that philosophy). It seems like a mélange between the will to counter attack (using the speed of play of Ramires) and the will to be solid when the team did not have the ball. The main “failure” was the Rooney Case. We knew that he had a massive freedom in the last games (mainly due to the absence of real DM at Tottenham, Arsenal and Bolton) and that he could rule the play like he wanted between the lines. Playing Meireles in front of the defense is not a bad idea in the absolute, he did show at Scumderland that he was a perfect hub in the play, allowing maintaining the rhythm of play because of his one-touch passing by example. But there, he began the game and applied the instruction to do an individual marking on Rooney, and after that when he saw that Nani has a complete freedom (what explains his performance today) then he started to position between the two but it was even worse. I think we should have played with Anelka instead of Sturridge, the Froggie has a better utilization do the ball and a better temporization ability. And I think we should have dropped Lampard for Meireles, and then put Mikel in front of the defense. For me the 2 best performers were Ramires and Torres, their individual misses does not say that much, its game facts and this takes nothing away from their performance during the whole game. Ramires was uneasy with the lack of precise instructions, he was often ready to play in counter attack but in the same time he did not mark Nani (the only criticism I would make him). But in fact if he was close to Nani so closer to the Chelsea goal, he would be then in a poorer position to be ready to flow and it would not have improved the opportunities of the team to go forward quickly because Lampard was wasteful (and I was sad to see him like that… ). Otherwise in terms of global passing and movement, I think we keep improving and that this defeat was mainly due to the success gained by Manure after crashing Spurs, Arse, Bolton’s poorest sides for a while, it gives confidence and then some things are made easier. About Lukaku, yes he was static and useless but it’s a baptism of fire in very hard conditions, don’t forget that he is not entirely ready for the first team and that the club did bought him mainly because some clubs (Porto) wanted him this summer. The clubs plans his future with this guy so let him time, of course that Lukaku (who did not tumble the defender and lost the ball like an idiot) was a better choice than Kalou. He was static but did not lose the ball. Let’s see against Foolham what he can do Otherwise I'm happy to see that people who did think that the only thing that Torres lacked was some direct support for 2 weeks (after the Norwich and WBA games), were right because he did 2 great performances in the play this week.

Steve, can you add mine ?

This conclusion seems to me aberrant You don't see the difference of form between the Torres of last season and the Torres of the first games ? Last season he lacked both fitness (but neither Roman nor Torres are to blame for, just Losepool) and support behind him. He is a player who used to shine in a team featuring Gerrard and Xabi Alonso on the top of their form, when you replace them by a Lampard lower on the pitch and far from his best level and Mikel who has not the vertical play of Alonso, it's the result you get. Nonetheless Torres was pretty good at Copenhagen with a support player behind him whereas he wasn't at his best form. This season he lacks only support, I am not making anything, the fact is that he had to leave his position to touch the ball against WBA or Norwich and was lonesome on the top of the team because Lampard and Bosingwa were too far. I don't think I'm the only one to see that Torres' performance at Stoke is an irrefutable evidence that's the day & night compared to last season ?! Against Leverkusen, one must be in bad faith if he says that there's still the crap Torres from last season, I think (for me it seems obvious) that Torres has to adapt to the playing style of Chelsea. If Carlo did play that much Torres last season, it's not because of rubbish reasons that Roman did put pressure or threatened him with a gun ; Ancelotti just wanted Torres to adapt the more quicky to the settings of the play of the team even if he wasn't in the best fitness form, he wanted him to be used to the kind of deliveries the players around him could provide him. Not particulary specifically to him because of the 58m blabla, it’s the same with all other strikers in the world, you want them to know the playing style of the team the more quickly then to perform as quickly as possible. Liverpool’s way of playing used massively long balls on the entire width of the pitch ; Torres’ ability to call the ball through the defense was enhanced by the quality of the deliveries of Alonso or Gerrard. The point where I’m coming is what I said to Badboy on another topic: But Ramires is also a great counter-attacking player, but it does not prevent him to be usefull in another domains such as the defensive aspect, cut the transmissions and cover the runs upfield of Bosingwa. Torres is perfectly able to play relays on the width of the pitch, he is a mobile striker and at the top of his form one of the most complete #9 in the world, he is a clinical finisher and he is able to score smart goals that can bring an extra 10 or 15 points in a season when he unlocks a situation, thing we lacked last season, our struggles in the box in front of the goal were obvious at several moments such as at Wolverhampton. He is a generous striker and can really be the first player to rely on in the new philosophy to press higher and smarter. Kevin Davies would agree with me, strikers are the first defenders on the pitch Against Leverkusen, it was very clear that Torres has shown the will to adapt to the playing style of Chelsea: he did not start a lot from behind the defenders but instead of that, played relays and made himself available on the width of the pitch. A huge contrast with the lower 4-5-1 of Liverpool and his numerous runs in the depth. I would end my point with the same thing that I said somewhere else: So yes, some people may say that for £58m we can expect more, but that fee was interdependent of the situation where we did buy Torres. I don't especially see him as a player with a limited palette or playing style, he is not Drogba but he is not totally useless. The 15-20 goals he will score this season (and more than 20 considering the other tournaments) will be fully enough for what we need from THE player who scores the goals, thing that was not that clear or defined the last 3 seasons and was dependent of the form or the role of the several players able to provide these goals (Drogba, Lampard, Malouda, Anelka...)

It's a matter I don't know a lot about, I'm surprised but in fact if you say this so I trust you. I understand now, you don't like French for what it means where you are, the surrounding and environnement ; I though it was the language on his own that you did not like

I don't agree with you, the fact that he has an atypical profile may imply that we can underestimate or misjudge what he can do. For me the right side of the midfield suits him perfectly because he can have several roles there: he can defend, he can cover the right back (and I said that to you some time ago, that Ramires was the key for the revival of Bosingwa) and he can go forward with the ball. You may not agree with me but I think Ramires has a huge quality when he goes forward with the ball, I've rarely seen a quickest player with the ball. With the 4-3-3 before the winter, especially against Bolton (H) or Tottenham (A), his way of playing was simple: playing vertically the more often he could and provide support with runs on the wings (and also in the axis to bring a surplus of players, arriving with speed). I don’t know if you remember Kalou’s chance at White Hart Lane at half an hour: Ramires gave a pass forward, continued his run and did cross magnificently well with a ball that did arrive in the most dangerous position of the zone between the goalkeeper and the defenders who are scared to conceide an O.G. I don’t really consider this as an isolated action from Rambo and he did manage to repeat several actions like this after that He is increasing at the moment, he has the advantage of having played at the Copa America and dispose of more rythm than his team mates. But I find this player absolutely fascinating because when we see him play, we wonder if he has limits (when I see his performance at Sunderland I'm a bit speechless)... I'm of those who think that he can be even better in the next few years. His volume of play is phenomenal and I don't agree with you when you say that if he has a «more central and deep role than his position is suggesting ». When we look at the best performance so far featuring Ramires, Meireles and Lampard so the Sunderland Game, we can only see that they did share the midfield in 3 zones, Lampard was active on the left flank, Meireles with a central role and Ramires on the entire right flank and also the central part of the field where he did several tackles and good interventions. Ramires really has the ability to be at the “four et au Moulin” (=be at two places at once”) because he has a fantastic stamina and is quick, defends well… No his play is not scattered, he does just enjoys his incredible athletic potential and he manages to link it with intelligence of play, that I find pretty remarkable. Otherwise I do agree with you about Lampard and with you and Eldo about Sturridge who could - if he plays as a lone striker - be blamed (if we loose by example) for leaving his position.

You can't only mention that kind of overall statistic, if I remember well, they were 2 clear periods where Malouda did disapear from the group (not even coming in) during the winter and the spring. He started every game under José and was used promptly by Grant after that, dropped without reason etc...

I do also operate widely like that on a french forum

It's Malouda's fault if Grant did prefer Kalou over Malouda ? Your opinion is not exhaustive, you do not mention the number of games he has to play for almost 2 seasons... I do not agree, he was a player that contribued to the success of the team, and last season he was as important as the season before even if his play did change. Kalou is a player enjoying the form of the team, not Malouda This massive change in his play is a piece of evidence that he is smart football player (not an opportunistic) because he did manage to adapt the game rate (due to the absence of real alternative) to a playing style that could allow him to still perform (creating chances last season)

Even last season, I don't think he was far from his best ; he was at a different kind of best... Yes of course he was not the conventional winger of the Double but he was more tempted to cut inside and the fact is that he is the player who has by far created the more chances of the Championship. It's not a question of only thinking to improve his own stat sheet but really an important change in his way of playing (imo because of the accumulation of matches) that people truly misunderstand and say that he is selfish and lazy. I'm French so I used to watch the France's games last season and the contrast between the perfs in club and in selection were striking, he was very good against Blackpool and then he was crap against Bosnia or England I don't remember, and then the next Chelsea game he was at his best. So i'm convinced it was just a matter of change his playing style because of the games accumulation. And who to blame ? Sure, not him, he did just his best to manage to play such a huge number of games whereas nobody did or could replace him

I don't understand the bashing of Malouda to be frank, he is a player that I like and I'm surprised by the treatment made of him. I must admit that I hate his twin brother who plays in a deck chair and shoot in every position... But it's impossible not to see his contribution for the Double first of all, and after that because he had to play all the games since the 2009 Autumn. Of course he had to change a bit his way of playing, but Torres did also so at Liverpool because of the amount of games he had to play every weel, month... Malouda's stamina is excellent but he is an human, with so much games played for the last 20 months, it has consequences Malouda is a versatile player who can have some difficulties to put up with the preparation, but so is Lampard, Drogba or Anelka... He is increasing and his Leverkusen game speaks on his own, he is a player able to play on a flank and in the midfield with the same intelligence and accuracy in the build up of the goals and put impact in the midfield. I don't really think he deserves the silly selfish player label that everyone wants to stick on his forehead. He is not a money driven rat, he is involved in several humanitarian causes and cares a lot about children in Guyana...

Not necessarly slated but maybe reasoned (it's my honest own opinion). Because it's completely off-topic I did put it in a Spoiler