test

Welcome to Talk Chelsea

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Jason

11. Timo Werner

Started by Jason,

579 posts in this topic
3 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Understood ...

I don't believe we've signed players who can be expected to become world superstars, but I do think we've signed good players who will produce for us. Whether we have bargains or not can't be judged yet.

Twelve months ago Arsenal fans were jumping about Pepe and and how little they were reported to have paid for him. They completely overlooked the fact that, had he been as good as they wanted to imagine he is, they'd never have been able to sign him. Bigger, better sides would have wanted him. and one of them would have taken him. In our case, if Liverpool had really wanted Timo they'd have paid up and the message he posted earlier today would have been addressed to Liverpool fans. We have to be realistic, and temper our expectations.

I'm pleased with our summer window so far, but I'm not judging the value for money of our signings yet.

I don't recall Arsenal fans saying they signed Pepe for cheap but more the case that for a team who apparently had a limited budget ended up spending a lot of money on one player. They managed to do in instalments. The fee was very high and I don't see how any Arsenal fans can say £72m for Pepe is cheap, even at this point last season. They were happy with the transfer because he had produced brilliant numbers at Lille and I thought he would be really good there too.

My point is right now it is a bargain. Ziyech has been brilliant for the past few seasons for Ajax. Also produced in the UCL for past 2 seasons as well against top teams. £33m for me is a bargain. If he does not live up to expectations then you can say the transfer week has not worked out but his market value is a lot higher than £33m.

Werner too. We have bought him for around £45m which is a bargain. His current market value and considering other fees players have gone for, it is a bargain because at this moment in speaking, we have bought two players who have been exceptional for low fees. Pepe had one season where he was outstanding. Werner has been scoring goals for fun in the Bundesliga for what? The last 3 seasons. So even if that does not work out, at the time we have bought the two players it is for a bargain.

Regarding your point about if a player was that why weren't bigger clubs after him, I disagree. You see this with top players all the time. Why did no other team compete with Arsenal to sign Aubameyang? Why did no other big team team apart from Liverpool put in a bid for Van Dijk? Why did not no other big teams go for Bruno Fernandes? Other big clubs not going for a player does not mean that they are not that good. It can mean that they are focusing on other areas or just don't need the player as much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Stats said:

I don't recall Arsenal fans saying they signed Pepe for cheap but more the case that for a team who apparently had a limited budget ended up spending a lot of money on one player. They managed to do in instalments. The fee was very high and I don't see how any Arsenal fans can say £72m for Pepe is cheap, even at this point last season. They were happy with the transfer because he had produced brilliant numbers at Lille and I thought he would be really good there too.

My point is right now it is a bargain. Ziyech has been brilliant for the past few seasons for Ajax. Also produced in the UCL for past 2 seasons as well against top teams. £33m for me is a bargain. If he does not live up to expectations then you can say the transfer week has not worked out but his market value is a lot higher than £33m.

Werner too. We have bought him for around £45m which is a bargain. His current market value and considering other fees players have gone for, it is a bargain because at this moment in speaking, we have bought two players who have been exceptional for low fees. Pepe had one season where he was outstanding. Werner has been scoring goals for fun in the Bundesliga for what? The last 3 seasons. So even if that does not work out, at the time we have bought the two players it is for a bargain.

Regarding your point about if a player was that why weren't bigger clubs after him, I disagree. You see this with top players all the time. Why did no other team compete with Arsenal to sign Aubameyang? Why did no other big team team apart from Liverpool put in a bid for Van Dijk? Why did not no other big teams go for Bruno Fernandes? Other big clubs not going for a player does not mean that they are not that good. It can mean that they are focusing on other areas or just don't need the player as much.

Absolute bargain theres no doubt about that....feels like an eternity we last was this astute and fast-working getting quality players in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tottenham Hotspur fans react as RB Leipzig troll club after Timo Werner signs for Chelsea

https://sportslens.com/tottenham-hotspur-fans-react-as-rb-leipzig-troll-club-after-timo-werner-signs-for-chelsea/301161/

RB Leipzig striker Timo Werner is set to join Chelsea at the end of the Bundesliga campaign, and the German side couldn’t help but throw a jibe a Tottenham Hotspur via their Twitter handle during one of their announcements.

Julian Nagelsmann’s side ran out 4-0 winners on aggregate in the Champions League last-16 at the expense of Spurs in March, with Werner scoring from the spot at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in the first-leg in February.

Leipzig were quick to remind Chelsea fans that the Germany international has no difficulty finding the back of the net against their London rivals, and it didn’t go down well with some Tottenham fans.

Here is how they reacted to the jibe:

1chelsea likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 

Twelve months ago Arsenal fans were jumping about Pepe and and how little they were reported to have paid for him. They completely overlooked the fact that, had he been as good as they wanted to imagine he is, they'd never have been able to sign him. Bigger, better sides would have wanted him. and one of them would have taken him. 

I disagree with that statement. Salah is a very good example. He wasn't unknown player and pool got him with decent fee and I don't have to tell you about the result.

 

 

Stats likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stats said:

I don't recall Arsenal fans saying they signed Pepe for cheap

There was a video in which several AFTV regulars were raving about the Pepe deal. They talked about it being the biggest deal of the summer but how, relative to the quality of the player and the list of clubs who were said to have been in for him, they had done a great deal on the fee. In essence they were saying what you're saying now; they felt they had a bargain.

I was like you, I'd have liked Pepe to come here, and was unhappy that another PL club got him instead. A deal can only be judged a bargain if the player meets or exceeds expectations however. They spoke too soon last summer, and I'm suggesting that we should avoid doing so now. I remember those Arsenal fans being absolutely stoked that they'd 'beaten' all the top clubs in Europe to capture the Lille man. None of them stopped to wonder, "Hold on a minute, why have we beaten them?" I'm suggesting we at least bear that question in mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stats said:

Why did no other team compete with Arsenal to sign Aubameyang? Why did no other big team team apart from Liverpool put in a bid for Van Dijk?

Not factually accurate. We were reported to have made an offer for Van Dijk for example.

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect. They did not want him enough to make the deal happen however, and there is a reason for that. Perhaps it's as simple as they believe that their existing front three will all be ahead of Timo for the big games. Fair enough, but that is at least one club whose assessment puts a firm ceiling on expectations for Timo's contribution.

There is a reason no club who Timo might have preferred to play for pushed through a deal for him. This is an inescapable truth. I like Timo, but let's not go overboard with our expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

There was a video in which several AFTV regulars were raving about the Pepe deal. They talked about it being the biggest deal of the summer but how, relative to the quality of the player and the list of clubs who were said to have been in for him, they had done a great deal on the fee. In essence they were saying what you're saying now; they felt they had a bargain.

I was like you, I'd have liked Pepe to come here, and was unhappy that another PL club got him instead. A deal can only be judged a bargain if the player meets or exceeds expectations however. They spoke too soon last summer, and I'm suggesting that we should avoid doing so now. I remember those Arsenal fans being absolutely stoked that they'd 'beaten' all the top clubs in Europe to capture the Lille man. None of them stopped to wonder, "Hold on a minute, why have we beaten them?" I'm suggesting we at least bear that question in mind.

Just because Arsenal fans said so, it doesn't mean it is TBH. If anything, it is delusional to consider spending 70 million on a player to be a bargain. Liverpool spent that amount on Van Dijk and he has done well for them but no one is calling him a bargain because spending that amount on someone is just out of the norm, even if the transfer market is busted these days. You are either a total success or a flop if you spend that kind of money on someone. Different case altogether if you spend less than 50 million on players who have actually proven themselves consistently beyond one season. The Premier League will be a different league than what Werner is used to in the Bundesliga or Ziyech in the Eredivisie but at least they have some track record. Pepe had only 1-2 good seasons.

Stats and Johnnyeye like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect.

But Liverpool couldn't pay the fee because of the financial constraints. As Klopp said, how would Liverpool explain to their staff and players that they spend 50-60 million on a player, after furloughing them and asking them as well as the players to take a pay cut etc? Am sure if this pandemic hadn't happened, Werner would have been a Liverpool player by now but since this pandemic unfortunately happened, it presented us with the opportunity to get him and we took it. 

Stats, Strike, Fernando and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Makes sense and I would have done the same. But many German Comments on the internet did not like his decision

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

Understandable reaction from them but this isn't a simple black and white situation, TBF. Would like to think Werner didn't make this decision lightly either because he's practically thrown away the chance to win the Champions League when clubs only need 3 wins to do so in the revised format. Plus, we are also facing pretty much a very similar situation with Pedro and Willian anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Not factually accurate. We were reported to have made an offer for Van Dijk for example.

The plain truth is that if Liverpool had wanted Werner they'd have paid the fee and satisfied him about the game time he could expect. They did not want him enough to make the deal happen however, and there is a reason for that. Perhaps it's as simple as they believe that their existing front three will all be ahead of Timo for the big games. Fair enough, but that is at least one club whose assessment puts a firm ceiling on expectations for Timo's contribution.

There is a reason no club who Timo might have preferred to play for pushed through a deal for him. This is an inescapable truth. I like Timo, but let's not go overboard with our expectations.

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though, as did no one else and he has lived up to his fee. I think most clubs know Werner's qualities and it is not due to doubts about his quality.  Similar with Aubemayang. Most clubs know he was a top striker but there may be other circumstances why clubs didn't bid for him bit did it surprise people to see him score for fun at Arsenal? No. My mere point is one club going in for a player without much competition does not mean that player is not top class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just because Arsenal fans said so, it doesn't mean it is TBH.

I agree but i wasn't commenting on the accuracy of their claim. Indeed i was rather implying that the evidence so far suggests that they were not right. I was simple comparing their attitude to the Pepe deal last summer, with our attitude about todays announcement.

 

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

If anything, it is delusional to consider spending 70 million on a player to be a bargain.

We've both read posts in the transfer forum claiming exactly that about this player, or that player. We have also read many statements claiming that Van Dijk to Liverpool was indeed a bargain.

 

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Different case altogether if you spend less than 50 million on players who have actually proven themselves consistently beyond one season. The Premier League will be a different league than what Werner is used to in the Bundesliga or Ziyech in the Eredivisie but at least they have some track record. Pepe had only 1-2 good seasons

Well, we can pick a number and call that the cut-off point but in the end it comes down to player performance. Were the fees we paid for Bats, Timoue and Alvaro bargains, or even acceptable because they were all £50m or less? Player performance, not player cost, is the true yardstick.

I do think we have bought two players who will give us something. I will be shocked if either is a bust, but we need to judge them on how they perform, not on how great we want to believe they will be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jason said:

But Liverpool couldn't pay the fee because of the financial constraints

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Stats said:

We were linked with him. I am sure we didn't bid for him though

I watched a video within the last week purporting to explain why VVD turned down Chelsea. Who knows the truth of it, but Chelsea's interest was widely talked about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I think this is a nonsense excuse. If they wanted him, they'd have made it happen.

If you have evidence to prove otherwise, do share it because there have been several stories explaining Liverpool's financial constraints during this pandemic. Below is one.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-liverpool-pulled-the-plug-on-54m-werner-as-chelsea/a1yjdfhc6i4e1rbor3o1xqytu

Plus, let's not forget that their owners also own a Major League Baseball team. So they would have to be even more careful about their finances. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lot of oppo fans are jealous of this signing but a lot suddenly don't rate him as highly now that he's joined Chelsea. :D

Man United fans in particular have been insufferable since Bruno Fernandes joined them and they went on this long run of good results (while still playing horrifically boring football). Now suddenly they've got a "much better" squad than us and Rashford, Martial, McTominay, and Fred are world beaters. Literally ALL players their fans were moaning about and wanting to sell before January. They all wanted Olé sacked, now they're a player (Sancho) away from taking Europe by storm! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jason said:

If you have evidence to prove otherwise, do share it because there have been several stories explaining Liverpool's financial constraints during this pandemic. Below is one.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-liverpool-pulled-the-plug-on-54m-werner-as-chelsea/a1yjdfhc6i4e1rbor3o1xqytu

Plus, let's not forget that their owners also own a Major League Baseball team. So they would have to be even more careful about their finances. 

No, of course I don't have evidence. I also had no evidence that Arsenal lied when they said they only had £40m to spend last summer. Until they spent £70m+ on Pepe that is. Clubs say convenient things for public consumption. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.