César Azpilicueta

[Jase 43,479]

He defiantly isn't perfect, but i do feel he is better at right back than he is given credit for.

I think it's more Mourinho's history with success more than his history with the club that means he is given more leeway by supporters, im sure if we had Fergie or Pep they would get similar leeway because they are also serial winners.

Maybe. Maybe not. Some have taken it a tad too far just because it's Mourinho..

And not sure about Guardiola there really. May have won the lot at Barcelona but still has his doubters around.

[Henrique 9,133]

Azi is an avarage RB. Mourinho was right to make Ivan his first choice full back.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ivanovic who helped us win the double at right back? Ivanovic who got in the team of the year from the same position?

This notion/myth that he is a shit right back just because he started at centre half is laughable and Azpilicueta wasn't as good last season as general opinion suggest's, he had a decent first season but is a long way from being as good as people already think he is.

Back then Torres was the best striker in the world. What's your point?

I know you missed a lot of last season, but Azpi was a key player for us. And that's not all down to his ability but also to Rafa's tactical plans. Cesar was often the most involved player in our matches with the most touches and passes. The transition from defense to attack when not on the counter always went through him which solved what was arguably our biggest problem last season.

As for Iva not playing bad at RB, I could give clear examples like our last match, Villa, Everton, Bayern...etc, but let's talk in general: Ivanovic does not have any natural ability on the ball to be a fullback. He's arguably our least technical player. Yes, he is powerful in going forward, but his offensive contribution (bar set-pieces) is almost non-existent. When he gets to the final third, 9 times out of 10 you'll either see a cross into row Z or miss-pass. Defensively, and this is my biggest issue with his as RB, he can't stop a cross for his life! In fact, I don't remember ever seeing him stopping a cross. He just always gives the winger a lot of space to cross because he knows that if he gets to close to him most wingers will beat him for pace. Not to mention that his positioning mistakes are a lot more at RB than when he plays at CB. Check the Tottenham goal for a clear example.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yes, Ivanovic was good back then but just because it was so, that doesn't mean he has been at this time.

Except he has been though. He's the form right-back in the league for me and the first name on the team sheet at the moment.

I don't think anyone has exactly over-exaggerate his capabilities as a RB but rather judged on him merit and Azpi has shown last season that he can match Ivanovic at RB and in fact, better him in the role.

Azpi is a good player but I think you're over-exaggerating a tad.

That's rather tragic. It's like as long as Mourinho remains our manager, we will see makeshift CB playing in a FB position...

Or it means that he sees tactical versatility in using Ivanovic - but are those extra points we got at Norwich really all that important?

Each to their own I suppose but Ivanovic has definitely shown his deficiencies when playing at RB. Just that it hasn't really got exposed yet this season..

And there are plenty of people who will rub their hands with glee when it happens, but right now he's been a rock for us. He doesn't stop working for the team and he provides an extra danger at set-pieces.

That indeed does seem to be consensus these days. Because it's Mourinho, people are like excusing and trying to justifying everything he does, even if it's not right, and yet if any other manager had made the decisions he had done, people would be lambasting him.

Again, this seems to be based on the premise that Azpi is the better right-back. I'm sorry but not everyone agrees with that.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Ivanovic does not have any natural ability on the ball to be a fullback.

Complete and utter tosh.

I know you have other teams to follow but pay attention to our matches perhaps. He's been fantastic for us this season and doesn't deserve half the stick he's getting on here, whilst by the same token Azpi isn't nearly as perfect as some are making out.

In fact Azpi's crossing ability was often cited as being in need of work, yet now it's exactly what we need when the problem actually lies with the lack of a real target man in the box.

We have problems in this team but right-back isn't one of them at the moment. This whole discussion is very reminiscent of the one about Gary Neville which went on for years because he wasn't a flashy 'Cafu-type' of full-back. You don't always need that, sometimes you just need dependable types in those positions and in Ivanovic we have probably the best one around so far this season. The half-a-dozen goals a season he can chip in with (which already include a winner at home to Villa) are just a bonus.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Complete and utter tosh.

I know you have other teams to follow but pay attention to our matches perhaps. He's been fantastic for us this season and doesn't deserve half the stick he's getting on here, whilst by the same token Azpi isn't nearly as perfect as some are making out.

In fact Azpi's crossing ability was often cited as being in need of work, yet now it's exactly what we need when the problem actually lies with the lack of a real target man in the box.

We have problems in this team but right-back isn't one of them at the moment. This whole discussion is very reminiscent of the one about Gary Neville which went on for years because he wasn't a flashy 'Cafu-type' of full-back. You don't always need that, sometimes you just need dependable types in those positions and in Ivanovic we have probably the best one around so far this season. The half-a-dozen goals a season he can chip in with (which already include a winner at home to Villa) are just a bonus.

Do you know what natural ability on the ball is? There is no comparison between Azpi's technical ability on the ball and Iva. If you can't see that then there's no need to have this conversation at all. And your point doesn't really stand because Azpi is not a flashy RB either but also a defend first type of RB.

I know you have divided loyalties but pay attention to the matches.

When will you ever learn to speak to people with respect? You've been previously warned and suspended for stuff like this and just because I ignore your jabs at me 99% of the time, it doesn't mean that I'll ignore them for ever.

[Kojo 4,676]

Honest to god he is the ultimate wind up merchant, unless you really are just bananas, ha, I'll go with both.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Do you know what natural ability on the ball is? There is no comparison between Azpi's technical ability on the ball and Iva. If you can't see that then there's no need to have this conversation at all. And your point doesn't really stand because Azpi is not a flashy RB either but also a defend first type of RB.

I've seen enough football in my life to know what natural ability is, but I've also got a high regard for those players who work at it. David Beckham didn't have 'natural ability' but he worked fucking hard at it. The same could be said for Frank Lampard although his instincts were perhaps beyond learning.

I don't know if you've played much sports or been around sportsmen, but natural ability is only the start. Hard-work and dedication are often ten times more important and no-one exemplifies that as much as Ivanovic does. It's why he's been getting the nod.

When will you ever learn to speak to people with respect? You've been previously warned and suspended for stuff like this and just because I ignore your jabs at me 99% of the time, it doesn't mean that I'll ignore them for ever.

Excuse me? Are you seriously going to feign offence at a comment which is true? I know you don't like me and you're looking at every opportunity to ban me but you state in your Twitter profile that you support other teams. 99% of the people on this site support one club - if what I said is untrue then I will take it back and apologise to you right now.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I've seen enough football in my life to know what natural ability is, but I've also got a high regard for those players who work at it. David Beckham didn't have 'natural ability' but he worked fucking hard at it. The same could be said for Frank Lampard although his instincts were perhaps beyond learning.

I don't know if you've played much sports or been around sportsmen, but natural ability is only the start. Hard-work and dedication are often ten times more important and no-one exemplifies that as much as Ivanovic does. It's why he's been getting the nod.

That's a different point, though. I'm not debating whether or not his lack of natural ability is compensated for, I just said that he arguably has the least natural ability on the ball in our squad, and you said it was nonsense. Now you're saying he doesn't have natural ability on the ball but he makes up for it. Make up your mind.

Excuse me? Are you seriously going to feign offence at a comment which is true? I know you don't like me and you're looking at every opportunity to ban me but you state in your Twitter profile that you support other teams. 99% of the people on this site support one club - if what I said is untrue then I will take it back and apologise to you right now.

Oh, you poor innocent little child! Well, it's not true, not that it's any of your business what teams I follow. And even if it were true, I fail to see what it has to do with either Azpi or Iva.

[Kojo 4,676]

Just because you're an Admin doesn't give you the right to plant false evidence on posts, no one is insulting, it's called winding up, if you don't like the game then stop playing it in the first place.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That's a different point, though. I'm not debating whether or not his lack of natural ability is compensated for, I just said that he arguably has the least natural ability on the ball in our squad, and you said it was nonsense. Now you're saying he doesn't have natural ability on the ball but he makes up for it. Make up your mind.

I don't think he has the least natural ability, but I also don't think it matters because of the work he's put into his game. I think people look at his body shape and expect him to be awkward on the ball, but he quite simply isn't.

Oh, you poor innocent little child! Well, it's not true, not that it's any of your business what teams I follow. And even if it were true, I fail to see what it has to do with either Azpi or Iva.

I'm not a child thank you very much (very respectful there Nour ). Here's a little tip for the internet - if you don't want people mentioning things about you, don't put them on Twitter and then link to your Twitter account. You WANTED that information out there which is why you put it on a public forum. Don't then get uppity when someone points out that you support other teams.

Be proud of your allegiances. :cfc: (the trollface is the closest I could get to the black and white of Juve....ironic).

[The only place to be 11,313]

Just because you're an Admin doesn't give you the right to plant false evidence on posts, no one is insulting, it's called winding up, if you don't like the game then stop playing it in the first place.

Maybe it's a cultural thing but having a little bit of banter is what being a football supporter is about...God knows what his response would be like if he actually turned up in the pub before a game.

I imagine he'd try to start banning people at the bar (see, that's a bit of banter too. If it's unacceptable then I apologise. It's tough to know who you can have a laugh with or not sometimes).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I don't think he has the least natural ability, but I also don't think it matters because of the work he's put into his game. I think people look at his body shape and expect him to be awkward on the ball, but he quite simply isn't.

I'm not a child thank you very much (very respectful there Nour ). Here's a little tip for the internet - if you don't want people mentioning things about you, don't put them on Twitter and then link to your Twitter account. You WANTED that information out there which is why you put it on a public forum. Don't then get uppity when someone points out that you support other teams.

Be proud of your allegiances. :cfc: (the trollface is the closest I could get to the black and white of Juve....ironic).

Well, Jake, you still haven't told why you brought it up or what it has to do with Iva or Azpi?

[Kojo 4,676]

Maybe it's a cultural thing but having a little bit of banter is what being a football supporter is about...God knows what his response would be like if he actually turned up in the pub before a game.

I imagine he'd try to start banning people at the bar (see, that's a bit of banter too. If it's unacceptable then I apologise. It's tough to know who you can have a laugh with or not sometimes).

Banter is banter, just like how he has Obi Mikel he scores when he wants in his signature, when he himself has complained in the John Obi Mikel thread about over aggressiveness and too much heat. It's just being a wind up merchant, winding people up and rubbing it in there faces over the slightest little things.

If you're going to give it you gotta be able to take it, no that's what she said or dirty jokes intended.

[Spike 12,049]

Maybe it's a cultural thing but having a little bit of banter is what being a football supporter is about...God knows what his response would be like if he actually turned up in the pub before a game.

I imagine he'd try to start banning people at the bar (see, that's a bit of banter too. If it's unacceptable then I apologise. It's tough to know who you can have a laugh with or not sometimes).

Maybe not just banter, but perhaps the humour and whatnot is culturally different too? You only need to compare English and American comedy to see how far the difference goes. For myself it isn't banter unless both people are having a laugh. If there is no laughing it's just an argument or something.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Maybe it's a cultural thing but having a little bit of banter is what being a football supporter is about...God knows what his response would be like if he actually turned up in the pub before a game.

I imagine he'd try to start banning people at the bar (see, that's a bit of banter too. If it's unacceptable then I apologise. It's tough to know who you can have a laugh with or not sometimes).

Where I come from it's only banter if you're friends. If you're not it's called being a cunt and you'd probably get your ass kicked for it :cfc:

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well, Jake, you still haven't told why you brought it up or what it has to do with Iva or Azpi?

Who is Jake? If you're going to make up a name for me can it be something a little cooler, like Lazer Thundercrotch?

I think it pertains to your views on Azpi and Ivanovic, and why you're expressing them. Not to start a whole new debate but I think you're adopting certain positions for certain reasons that are less than sincere.

Either way, let's just agree to disagree. At the end of the day we're all Chelsea supporters.

Banter is banter, just like how he has Obi Mikel he scores when he wants in his signature, when he himself has complained in the John Obi Mikel thread about over aggressiveness and too much heat. It's just being a wind up merchant, winding people up and rubbing it in there faces over the slightest little things.

If you're going to give it you gotta be able to take it, no that's what she said or dirty jokes intended.

Indeedy.

Maybe not just banter, but perhaps the humour and whatnot is culturally different too? You only need to compare English and American comedy to see how far the difference goes. For myself it isn't banter unless both people are having a laugh. If there is no laughing it's just an argument or something.

I love American comedy. I love Australian comedy too....Dame Edna's fantastic.

But this is a Chelsea forum. You've got to expect the same type of stuff that you'd get with Chelsea supporters haven't you? Ultimately this is the internet though and if people don't want information about them mentioned then why make it public? You're not going to get shirty because someone calls you a bogan are you? (that's not a serious insult is it? If it's a lyric in a song then it can't be that offensive).

[The only place to be 11,313]

Where I come from it's only banter if you're friends. If you're not it's called being a cunt and you'd probably get your ass kicked for it :cfc:

:lol2:

Ah keyboards....is there anything they won't allow you to type nowadays?