🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Nathaniel Chalobah

[The only place to be 11,313]

It wasn't only forum fans. He was hype by the entire English media which the led to everyone having unrealistic expectations of him, even our board. You can blame AVB all you want, but he's not why everyone thought Josh can walk into the Swansea team.

Josh had little chance of walking into any team in January because teams are settled by that point and including Josh in the team would take time. He's not an impact player by any measure, and AVB's insistence on keeping him around and not using him (like he did with Lukaku and Bertrand as well) robbed him of a year.

So am I, and what I'm saying is not that Nathanial still has a lot to learn to be good enough to get regular minutes here.

But you won't say what he has to learn...is it a secret?

So you're saying playing a group of youngsters with no European experience in a CL final, even if they have the skills, is the same as playing players with years of experience at the top level? I'm not saying we should never play players with experience, but it's very important, imo.

If we've reached a European final with these kids then they can't be that bad, although I doubt that's the point you're making. Experience is secondary to hunger and talent in my opinion.

Lukaku got chances here last season and he was terrible every single time, even with the reserves. What he got at WBA is regular playing time at a top level and that is what Nathanial needs next season as well.

Lukaku got bits and pieces under the understanding that he was very much third choice. In fact he got game time on the right-wing and when games were virtually over, rather than the minutes he's getting at West Brom. Again, AVB fucked him over and made him feel like he had little chance of getting a fair shot.

Both of them have the types of personalities that can handle pressure in my opinion, and they both have the talent to succeed.

[Leif 6,006]

'wow, he iz well gud innit'

I choked on my drink

[CHOULO19 24,332]

How did expectations affect Josh's career? I think exaggerated expectations mainly affect those with the expectations. Sure, if everybody is telling you how great you are, you can become overly confident, but I don't think anybody would claim has ever been overly confident.

Josh when joining Swansea last season: "I expect to be starting most if not all the remaining games for the rest of the season"

When it comes to player development, I feel that some people put too much emphasis on external factors like expectations, playing time, and loans. IMO natural ability and work ethic are 90% of the equation. If a player has what it takes, he will make it; the cream will rise to the top.

Completely disagree. The way youth players are handled can make or break their careers. That's why clubs pay millions on youth academies to try and find the optimum way to handle young players.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Completely disagree. The way youth players are handled can make or break their careers. That's why clubs pay millions on youth academies to try and find the optimum way to handle young players.

And ultimately it comes down to the individual. People are either born with what it takes to mentally handle their talents or they're not, which is why we place such an emphasis on the intangibles because they can't be taught.

There isn't an academy, coach, potion, spell or serum that can give a kid what Michael Jordan had. It's that will to win, that desire and I think Lukaku and Chalobah both have a bit of that in them. Sadly, and I'm not writing him off because it's too soon, but it's also what I think someone like Josh McEachran is lacking. You can call it arrogance, you can call it swagger or you can call it being a bit of a cunt but that is more important than experience in my view.

[semiller1313 23]

Josh when joining Swansea last season: "I expect to be starting most if not all the remaining games for the rest of the season"

First of all, you shouldn't pay too much attention to what players and managers say. They are all taught to say positive and optimistic things, regardless of the situation. But even if he meant it, what does that really prove? Is his psyche so fragile that he can't handle not getting what he wants, when he wants it?

Completely disagree. The way youth players are handled can make or break their careers. That's why clubs pay millions on youth academies to try and find the optimum way to handle young players.

You are right to a degree, work ethic will only take you so far if you aren't training intelligently. However, at the Premier League level, I think it is safe to assume that all players are being trained competently. Some teams may handle things a little better than others, but I think the differences are quite small, and don't determine whether or not an average player will turn into a star.

[themightyblue 443]

That is a massively simplistic, and wrong, understanding of the issues with Josh.

I knew the Ramires game against Arsenal would crop up. We fail to control the ball in midfield (something Chalobah does exceptionally well) so Ramires has to run around for 45 minutes and he does that very well indeed. Against Barca and Spurs he was on the right-wing as well and I will absolutely agree that Ramires is better than Chalobah in that position.

Anyway, we're not going to agree on this so I really can't see the point in discussing it further.

Well firstly Ramires was playing centrally this season against Spurs which is the game I'm referring too. It's also funny how you criticise someone for being 'simplistic' in this post and then say all Ramires did was 'run around'. But anyway the point of those examples is too show how those players have performed in the big games against the best teams after you only highlighted there bad games saying that Chalobah might make a difference. I can guarantee you Chalobah wouldn't have put in some of the performances we've seen Mikel and Ramires put in against the best teams in Europe (which isn't a bad thing considering how young he is), but you seem to have this highly optimistic view that he's better or not far behind despite the different levels that they're playing at and difference in quality.

[Thomas Williams 166]

I don't think Chalobah should play here if he doesn't get regular minutes. I don't think any developing player should. You look at young players who play as backup for good teams and those who play as regular starters for worse teams, and 9/10 the ones on the worse teams develop much quicker. Regular experience and playing professional matches is imo by far the best way to grow as a player, I'm sure most of you guys agree.

I think playing for a top side is the best way though, even if you're not quite ready and if you start off with a few bad games, but I suppose it's pretty risky if it might cost the team a win.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And ultimately it comes down to the individual. People are either born with what it takes to mentally handle their talents or they're not, which is why we place such an emphasis on the intangibles because they can't be taught.

There isn't an academy, coach, potion, spell or serum that can give a kid what Michael Jordan had. It's that will to win, that desire and I think Lukaku and Chalobah both have a bit of that in them. Sadly, and I'm not writing him off because it's too soon, but it's also what I think someone like Josh McEachran is lacking. You can call it arrogance, you can call it swagger or you can call it being a bit of a cunt but that is more important than experience in my view.

So how a player is handled and how good the academy and coaches he has aren't important? Never mind, you're clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing now..

First of all, you shouldn't pay too much attention to what players and managers say. They are all taught to say positive and optimistic things, regardless of the situation. But even if he meant it, what does that really prove? Is his psyche so fragile that he can't handle not getting what he wants, when he wants it?

Well Josh and the board sure expected him to get more than 2 games. What it proves is that had Josh not been so over hyped by the fans, the board could have gotten him a more realistic loan and he would not have missed a whole year of development at a crucial age.

[semiller1313 23]

Well Josh and the board sure expected him to get more than 2 games. What it proves is that had Josh not been so over hyped by the fans, the board could have gotten him a more realistic loan and he would not have missed a whole year of development at a crucial age.

I agree that it was poor loan, but I absolutely don't think it had anything to do with the fans. Do you really think the board factors in fan opinion when making player evaluations?

Obviously, it would've been better if he had more playing time, but I don't agree that he lost a whole year of development. Don't you think the thousands of hours he spends in training during the year aid in development? Playing time helps, but I don't think its going to make or break him.

[Thomas Williams 166]

Well Josh and the board sure expected him to get more than 2 games. What it proves is that had Josh not been so over hyped by the fans, the board could have gotten him a more realistic loan and he would not have missed a whole year of development at a crucial age.

I do agree that him being overhyped stunted his growth, he was too young to expect regular minutes at Swansea. I think a lot of the fault was that he was British, and the of course the media is going to make every talented British youth look like the next Zidane.

[Stats 7,142]

So how a player is handled and how good the academy and coaches he has aren't important? Never mind, you're clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing now..

Well Josh and the board sure expected him to get more than 2 games. What it proves is that had Josh not been so over hyped by the fans, the board could have gotten him a more realistic loan and he would not have missed a whole year of development at a crucial age.

Definitely. I thought at first when he moved to Swansea that we are rushing him too quickly with the hope up following in Wilshere's footsteps too quickly. We rushed him too much and he should have gone to a championship team. Let's also be aware that Josh was 18/19 last season. The same age Chalobah will be when Josh was out loan to Swansea. I hope we don't rush him into the first team too quickly. While people will say a loan to a Prem club will best suit him, I would be very content if he is still on loan at the Championship last season. But I think some lower team in the table will take a risk on him and if so, that is good.

He is only 18 and while many believe his performances for Watford should mean he warrants a chance in the first team the expectations and level is much different. I have no problems with him playing PL next season, but preferably I would rather it be at another club on loan. Watford would be perfect fi they go up. We don't need to rush him into our first team, like you said.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So how a player is handled and how good the academy and coaches he has aren't important? Never mind, you're clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing now..

They work on the technical, physical and tactical aspects of a player - all of which are secondary to their character. You may think I'm arguing for the sake of it, but don't bother responding if you aren't going to read my posts.

Well Josh and the board sure expected him to get more than 2 games. What it proves is that had Josh not been so over hyped by the fans, the board could have gotten him a more realistic loan and he would not have missed a whole year of development at a crucial age.

AVB said he would use him, so by the time they looked to secure him a loan the teams had already settled on their starting line-ups to a large extent. If he had gone in the summer then he might have had a better chance.

But what Josh shows is that the Championship isn't the cakewalk some people are suggesting it might be. He hasn't looked that impressive, but he's on a different development schedule to Chalobah so he has time.

Definitely. I thought at first when he moved to Swansea that we are rushing him too quickly with the hope up following in Wilshere's footsteps too quickly. We rushed him too much and he should have gone to a championship team. Let's also be aware that Josh was 18/19 last season. The same age Chalobah will be when Josh was out loan to Swansea. I hope we don't rush him into the first team too quickly. While people will say a loan to a Prem club will best suit him, I would be very content if he is still on loan at the Championship last season. But I think some lower team in the table will take a risk on him and if so, that is good.

Have you actually watched Nathaniel play? He needs a greater test than the Championship can provide.

He is only 18 and while many believe his performances for Watford should mean he warrants a chance in the first team the expectations and level is much different. I have no problems with him playing PL next season, but preferably I would rather it be at another club on loan. Watford would be perfect fi they go up. We don't need to rush him into our first team, like you said.

No-one is suggesting rushing him. What they're suggesting is that it would be beneficial for the player and for the club for him to be part of the first-team squad next season.

We need a midfielder - he's a midfielder. I'm not saying he's certain to be the answer, but I do think he deserves a fair shake.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Agree with Only...

If you are good enough, you are old enough - mental strength is something you have or don't - that's the rub...

Sink or swim, carefully nurturing works to some extent - I guess it depends on the individual - I'd like to see Chalobah starting next season.

This thread, lets put a different spin on it:

Teenage wonderkid from Barcelona Acadamy wants to play for Chelsea in 15million deal...

Now is he ready? Now does he have the right experience? We ARE SO DOWN on our Acadamy players - never quite ready

[semiller1313 23]

Agree with Only...

If you are good enough, you are old enough - mental strength is something you have or don't - that's the rub...

Sink or swim, carefully nurturing works to some extent - I guess it depends on the individual - I'd like to see Chalobah starting next season.

This thread, lets put a different spin on it:

Teenage wonderkid from Barcelona Acadamy wants to play for Chelsea in 15million deal...

Now is he ready? Now does he have the right experience? We ARE SO DOWN on our Acadamy players - never quite ready

The sad reality is that our academy will never produce players for our first team on a regular basis. Realistically, you have to be one of the top 300 players in the world to be a regular at Chelsea. Its incredibly difficult to know which 13-14 year is eventually going to develop into the next John Terry, and even if you do spot a player with incredible potential, you have to compete with every other team in the world to sign them. Barcelona, is one of the few teams that produces top players on a regular basis. Yes, that partly has to do with training, but its also because of their immense reputation; almost every young player in Spain (and everywhere else) would give their left nut to play for them. However, even with that huge advantage, a vast majority of their youths will fail.

Lately, I think we have intelligently been targeting older players like Piazon, Lukaku, Courtois and Wallace who are further along in their development. The older a player is, the easier it is to project where they will end up.

What gets me excited about Chalobah is that he seems to be one of those rare players that exceeds expectations, and actually has a shot of making it out of the academy. He still has a lot to prove, but my money is on him making it.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

This thread, lets put a different spin on it: Teenage wonderkid from Barcelona Acadamy wants to play for Chelsea in 15million deal... Now is he ready? Now does he have the right experience? We ARE SO DOWN on our Acadamy players - never quite ready

No of course, that won't change a thing. You'll hardly see anyone who cares about our youth academy products more than me, which is exactly why I want him loaned until he is 100% ready to perform at the top level. Because at the first time he under performs, and he will naturally have sub-par performances in his first season in the PL, the fans will be calling for his head and manager will be under too much pressure and will probably bench him for a month.

That's unfortunately how it is at Chelsea. Take a look through the Bertarnd thread for example, he went from "The next Ashley Cole" to "We should recall PVA because Bertarnd is just not good enough" after a couple of below average performances.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No of course, that won't change a thing. You'll hardly see anyone who cares about our youth academy products more than me, which is exactly why I want him loaned until he is 100% ready to perform at the top level. Because at the first time he under performs, and he will naturally have sub-par performances in his first season in the PL, the fans will be calling for his head and manager will be under too much pressure and will probably bench him for a month.

That's unfortunately how it is at Chelsea. Take a look through the Bertarnd thread for example, he went from "The next Ashley Cole" to "We should recall PVA because Bertarnd is just not good enough" after a couple of below average performances.

The notion of a player being 100% ready to perform is absurd. What is he right now? 60%? 70%? You're either ready, or you're not - either way you're going to suffer bumps along the way but it's how you respond to that adversity that will decide your fate.

Secondly, the idea that any Chelsea fan would call for a young player's head after a couple of bad performances is quite frankly absurd. Any football supporter would support young players coming through.

As for Bertrand, he's 23, has over 200 first-team appearances and 2 England caps - that's a pretty large sample size for people to make judgments about. It's also a mightily unfair comparison because I think they're just different levels of player. Berts is a solid pro who will probably get into double digits for England caps, but he was never as highly-regarded as Chalobah. In fact I don't think he's given many below-average performances, he's just been average throughout his career almost. There's no shame in that.

[Muzchap 8,966]

No of course, that won't change a thing. You'll hardly see anyone who cares about our youth academy products more than me, which is exactly why I want him loaned until he is 100% ready to perform at the top level. Because at the first time he under performs, and he will naturally have sub-par performances in his first season in the PL, the fans will be calling for his head and manager will be under too much pressure and will probably bench him for a month.

That's unfortunately how it is at Chelsea. Take a look through the Bertarnd thread for example, he went from "The next Ashley Cole" to "We should recall PVA because Bertarnd is just not good enough" after a couple of below average performances.

Yeah Betrand has suffered by bein played in midfield and not really having a nailed down position. I did expect him to be an understudy for AC and play LB in cup games, weaker league games etc. but this is what happens with Managerial instability!

We need some 'manager glue' to stick our potential stars into a winning, motivated team - some can come quicker like Chalobah where we desperately need a player and some like Bertrand/PvA will have to learn the ropes

Still excited though

[Muzchap 8,966]

The notion of a player being 100% ready to perform is absurd. What is he right now? 60%? 70%? You're either ready, or you're not - either way you're going to suffer bumps along the way but it's how you respond to that adversity that will decide your fate.

Secondly, the idea that any Chelsea fan would call for a young player's head after a couple of bad performances is quite frankly absurd. Any football supporter would support young players coming through.

As for Bertrand, he's 23, has over 200 first-team appearances and 2 England caps - that's a pretty large sample size for people to make judgments about. It's also a mightily unfair comparison because I think they're just different levels of player. Berts is a solid pro who will probably get into double digits for England caps, but he was never as highly-regarded as Chalobah. In fact I don't think he's given many below-average performances, he's just been average throughout his career almost. There's no shame in that.

Agree - the whole world has gone mad on statistical probability and using a metric to define tangible qualities, on something intangible and hard to compare apples v apples...

Bert has also suffered being played out of position - much like Ramires as RW, Bertrand is no LW

So I have sympathy for him and yes I might get angry at him during games and moan about him, I do reflect he hasn't always been given the 'best' starting point. I honestly think he's gone backwards under the last 2 managers - which is a shame

[Stats 7,142]

They work on the technical, physical and tactical aspects of a player - all of which are secondary to their character. You may think I'm arguing for the sake of it, but don't bother responding if you aren't going to read my posts.

AVB said he would use him, so by the time they looked to secure him a loan the teams had already settled on their starting line-ups to a large extent. If he had gone in the summer then he might have had a better chance.

But what Josh shows is that the Championship isn't the cakewalk some people are suggesting it might be. He hasn't looked that impressive, but he's on a different development schedule to Chalobah so he has time.

Have you actually watched Nathaniel play? He needs a greater test than the Championship can provide.

No-one is suggesting rushing him. What they're suggesting is that it would be beneficial for the player and for the club for him to be part of the first-team squad next season.

We need a midfielder - he's a midfielder. I'm not saying he's certain to be the answer, but I do think he deserves a fair shake.

I have watched him several times and like you I think he is one of the best talents to have emerged from our academy. But, regardless how much progress he makes I would prefer him to be loaned out purely because there is a much bigger gap between Premiership and Championship quality. We already have Mikel, Romeu, Ramires, Lamps, Luiz can play there and we are very likely to see another addition. Chalobah will not get much first team chances next season and I can understand why.

I treat him different to the Lukaku case because Chalobah is a bit younger than him and Lukaku has played international first team football and a season of Premiership football with a lower placed team. That is what Chalobah needs IMO before even being considered for the first team. By the time next season starts he still will be 18 and with the pressure that goes on with players at the club he will be best off getting football in a team with less pressure.

That is how Lukaku has flourished and I am sure Chalobah can do the same. I have no doubts he will make it here, but is he going to be miles better than what we already have for next season? I am unsure and the staff here will not take a risk to see if that is the case, I am sure anyway.

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

No matter how many years he is on loan and how many games he has under his belt. His first Chelsea match will still be his first Chelsea match, no amount of experience and whatnot will change that. If he impresses he impresses if he falls flat on his face exactly that happens.