🇪🇨 25. Moisés Caicedo

[lucio 5,418]

3 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

People here don't like stats mate, tells them they aren't as clued up as they think they are.

Stats and data based analysis is why we signed loads of duds

anyone with working eyesight and a modicum of football knowledge can tell caicedo is a poor passer 

and if we are comparing him to gallagher , then who cares because he’s shite too 

[Stats 7,142]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

9 vs 2 assists?

Actually only Palmer has more in our squad.

Having more assists does not mean you are a better passer. You can make a pass to a player from 30 yards and it goes down as assist if he scores. I would say Caicedo is a better passer. Gallagher may have more assists but can't remember how many I would actually say was 'astonishing pass'.

[Thor 2,702]

8 hours ago, lucio said:

Stats and data based analysis is why we signed loads of duds

anyone with working eyesight and a modicum of football knowledge can tell caicedo is a poor passer 

and if we are comparing him to gallagher , then who cares because he’s shite too 

How does it feel to just say stuff, without even thinking? 

Consistently bad takes in every thread.

[robsblubot 3,595]

11 hours ago, lucio said:

Stats and data based analysis is why we signed loads of duds

anyone with working eyesight and a modicum of football knowledge can tell caicedo is a poor passer 

and if we are comparing him to gallagher , then who cares because he’s shite too 

The issue seems to be how it's been used at the club, not the process itself which is highly customizable.
At most clubs, data analysis is the starting point to signing players. It does not make Pep sign a player, for example. It provides a list of potential candidates and information about them--all based on what he, the manager, is looking for.
Data analysis is a tool, which can be used correctly or not.

[lucio 5,418]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

How does it feel to just say stuff, without even thinking? 

Consistently bad takes in every thread.

I’d worry more about your own takes , you believe Jackson is going to be an elite striker 🤡 

[Thor 2,702]

33 minutes ago, lucio said:

I’d worry more about your own takes , you believe Jackson is going to be an elite striker 🤡 

Again - saying things.

I've said he isn't the problem, has done well enough, and has continually improved. Not giving a 22 year old in his 2nd pro season a chance to get better - literally the shit our fans have gone ape shit at management for. 

If you can't see there is potential for a phenomenal player in Jackson given his improvement and how little pro football he has, you're a numpty straight up. This isn't me tooting my own horn as some scout, because I'm as good as the next clueless fan - but spoilt bratty Chelsea fans like yourself know even less. 

[lucio 5,418]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

Again - saying things.

I've said he isn't the problem, has done well enough, and has continually improved. Not giving a 22 year old in his 2nd pro season a chance to get better - literally the shit our fans have gone ape shit at management for. 

If you can't see there is potential for a phenomenal player in Jackson given his improvement and how little pro football he has, you're a numpty straight up. This isn't me tooting my own horn as some scout, because I'm as good as the next clueless fan - but spoilt bratty Chelsea fans like yourself know even less. 

Throwing around insults on a football forum . Complete loser behaviour . You can use the DM if you want to , if not , it’s better not to get personal 

[Thor 2,702]

14 minutes ago, lucio said:

Throwing around insults on a football forum . Complete loser behaviour . You can use the DM if you want to , if not , it’s better not to get personal 

You literally come here to bitch and moan, and its all you do. Calling you a numpty is massive loser behaviour? lol

Its literally what I call my nephews when they're being silly. If you can't take it, don't go outside to the real world.

[robsblubot 3,595]

20 minutes ago, lucio said:

Throwing around insults on a football forum . Complete loser behaviour . You can use the DM if you want to , if not , it’s better not to get personal 

Heh I know right?! Some people really get attached to the players for some reason.

players come and go there is no fucking loyalty in the game. They usually last a little longer than managers, but they always go. I highly recommend meeting a professional football and actually talking to him; their mindset would look strangely familiar to us grinders 😆 

there is nothing special about caicedo. Kante used to do what he does 10x better. Imagining that because he’s young he will get to WC is just wishful thinking. The truth is that none of us know that, we just have guesses. Mine is that there is no evidence to support the case caicedo will be WC one day. 

[lucio 5,418]

7 minutes ago, Thor said:

You literally come here to bitch and moan, and its all you do. Calling you a numpty is massive loser behaviour? lol

Its literally what I call my nephews when they're being silly. If you can't take it, don't go outside to the real world.

You’re getting pressed because someone has different opinions about football players 

[lucio 5,418]

Just now, robsblubot said:

Heh I know right?! Some people really get attached to the players for some reason.

players come and go there is no fucking loyalty in the game. They usually last a little longer than managers, but they always go. I highly recommend meeting a professional football and actually talking to him; their mindset would look strangely familiar to us grinders 😆 

there is nothing special about caicedo. Kante used to do what he does 10x better. Imagining that because he’s young he will get to WC is just wishful thinking. The truth is that none of us know that, we just have guesses. Mine is that there is no evidence to support the case caicedo will be WC one day. 

Caicedo lacks the acceleration to ever be WC imo, he doesn’t have have any outstanding physical attribute , height , strength , speed etc, and he won’t justify his price tag by he technical ability or goal scoring 

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 minutes ago, lucio said:

Caicedo lacks the acceleration to ever be WC imo, he doesn’t have have any outstanding physical attribute , height , strength , speed etc, and he won’t justify his price tag by he technical ability or goal scoring 

Yeah I think he lacks more than a he physical aspects actually. One could argue that a WC should already look pretty impressive at 22.

honestly eyeballs only here, he simply lacks skill. He’s pretty lousy past the midfield line, for ex.
Why "past the midfield line is different"? it's more contested and there is less space to operate--better players thrive there.

Edited May 5, 2024 by robsblubot

[lucio 5,418]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Yeah I think he lacks more than a he physical aspects actually. One could argue that a WC should already look pretty impressive at 22.

honestly eyeballs only here, he simply lacks skill. He’s pretty lousy past the midfield line, for ex.

For just a decent ball winner without serious skill or physicality you could have got so many similar players for way cheaper 

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 minutes ago, lucio said:

For just a decent ball winner without serious skill or physicality you could have got so many similar players for way cheaper 

yup and tbf to Caicedo, if we remove the price tag from the equation, he's a decent potentially good player. Of course we overpaid big time, but that's our modus operandi these days eh.

Edited May 5, 2024 by robsblubot

[lucio 5,418]

2 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

yup and tbf to Caicedo, if we remove the price tag from the equation, he's a decent potentially good player. Of course we overpaid big time, but that's our modus operandi these days eh.

For sure , if we picked him up for 30m he probably wouldn’t get much criticism but for a record breaking fee... I think it was onemosalah who said for that money for a midfielder you need to be getting an elite goal scorer or playmaker 

[Stats 7,142]

21 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Heh I know right?! Some people really get attached to the players for some reason.

players come and go there is no fucking loyalty in the game. They usually last a little longer than managers, but they always go. I highly recommend meeting a professional football and actually talking to him; their mindset would look strangely familiar to us grinders 😆 

there is nothing special about caicedo. Kante used to do what he does 10x better. Imagining that because he’s young he will get to WC is just wishful thinking. The truth is that none of us know that, we just have guesses. Mine is that there is no evidence to support the case caicedo will be WC one day. 

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

[robsblubot 3,595]

23 minutes ago, Stats said:

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

I did not watch Kante at league 2. Someone did tho. That person saw real potential, which I don't see in Caicedo.

I digress tho. Let's just assume, for argument's sake, that Kante and Caicedo both at 22 were about the same level. That really does not mean a whole lot, because that last leap that Kante did is the rarest of them all. That should be self-evident given the ridiculously small number of truly WC players in the game. That's precisely the reason I don't really believe the strategy the club is employing--I suspect they might have miscalculated the odds.

Going back to eyeball/pub guesses, I admit that's what they are, Kante had one extremely underrated quality (to most) which was his control of the football at extreme pace. I don't see anything like that in Caicedo; I don't see anything special about his game. Yes, he's physically rounded (not high balls tho), but he's quick and aggressive, and that's about it.

The difference between Brighton and City is that one makes a number of different bets to strike gold (WC player); while the other waits until they make that rarest leap, and then sign the ready WC player they need to beat everyone else. Sorry, I really don't see an upside in our current strategy.

Edited May 5, 2024 by robsblubot

[Stats 7,142]

24 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I did not watch Kante at league 2. Someone did tho. That person saw real potential, which I don't see in Caicedo.

I digress tho. Let's just assume, for argument's sake, that Kante and Caicedo both at 22 were about the same level. That really does not mean a whole lot, because that last leap that Kante did is the rarest of them all. That should be self-evident given the ridiculously small number of truly WC players in the game. That's precisely the reason I don't really believe the strategy the club is employing--I suspect they might have miscalculated the odds.

Going back to eyeball/pub guesses, I admit that's what they are, Kante had one extremely underrated quality (to most) which was his control of the football at extreme pace. I don't see anything like that in Caicedo; I don't see anything special about his game. Yes, he's physically rounded (not high balls tho), but he's quick and aggressive, and that's about it.

The difference between Brighton and City is that one makes a number of different bets to strike gold (WC player); while the other waits until they make that rarest leap, and then sign the ready WC player they need to beat everyone else. Sorry, I really don't see an upside in our current strategy.

See, that is where I disagree. I looked at Caicedo closely last season, especially in Brighton's big games. Last season against Arsenal, he played this hybrid role between RB and DM and he was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking, this guy is a total baller. They had so many standouts that game but he impressed me the most. They had a game against United last season in the FA Cup which United luckily sneaked through and again thought he completely controlled the game. He might of had one little mistake, but other than that he was brilliant.

Then under Potter the season before last, they beat United 4-0. Caicedo probably was 19/20 then. It was a 5.30 game I think. Two now Chelsea boys were on the scoresheet but Caicedo ran the show. Scored in that game too. The potential was clear. As well as being an enforcer, he also dictated the tempo of the game.

You only need to see the match report to see why he got MOTM and the stats:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12606328/brighton-4-0-manchester-united-visitors-worst-premier-league-season-confirmed-after-amex-thrashing

⭐️ Man of the Match, @OfficialBHAFC’s Moises Caicedo 🇪🇨
48 touches
31/34 passes completed
5/8 duels won
2 shots, 1 on target
Club’s 3rd youngest PL scorer
7th Ecuadorian to score in PL pic.twitter.com/assErDDUZQ

— Sky Sports Statto (@SkySportsStatto) May 7, 2022

My point being is clear, let him settle, give him time and get the team to understand the system properly, he will cook. He is able to control games which he did several times at Brighton. If anything, it was when we went to possession football, when Kante sometimes did not look as effective and I thought sometimes especially against teams with low block, I preferred seeing Jorginho and Kovacic together.

Edited May 5, 2024 by Stats

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 minute ago, Stats said:

See, that is where I disagree. I looked at Caicedo closely last season, especially in Brighton's big games. Last season against Arsenal, he played this hybrid role between RB and DM and he was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking, this guy is a total baller. They had so many standouts that game but he impressed me the most. They had a game against United last season in the FA Cup which United luckily sneaked through and again thought he completely controlled the game. He might of had one little mistake, but other than that he was brilliant.

Then under Potter, they beat United 4-0. Caicedo probably was 19/20 then. It was a 5.30 game I think. Two now Chelsea boys were on the scoresheet but Caicedo ran the show. Scored in that game too. The potential was clear. As well as being an enforcer, he also dictated the tempo of the game.

You only need to see the match report to see why he got MOTM and the stats:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12606328/brighton-4-0-manchester-united-visitors-worst-premier-league-season-confirmed-after-amex-thrashing

⭐️ Man of the Match, @OfficialBHAFC’s Moises Caicedo 🇪🇨
48 touches
31/34 passes completed
5/8 duels won
2 shots, 1 on target
Club’s 3rd youngest PL scorer
7th Ecuadorian to score in PL pic.twitter.com/assErDDUZQ

— Sky Sports Statto (@SkySportsStatto) May 7, 2022

My point being is clear, let him settle, give him time and get the team to understand the system properly, he will cook. He is able to control games which he did several times at Brighton. If anything, it was when we went to possession football, when Kante sometimes did not look as effective and I thought sometimes especially against teams with low block, I preferred seeing Jorginho and Kovacic together.

Can totally buy the former (enforcer), not so much the latter (dictate tempo). Still hope you are right tho.
Still think that the leap from "he's a total baller" to WC is a bit tougher than we make it out to be eh.

[Thor 2,702]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

We signed Caicedo at age of 21. At age of 21 Kante, was playing in Ligue 2. Caicedo will improve here. I am sure. So if you ask who the better player is at aged 21, Caicedo definitely is. Kante joined Leicester at age 24, but problem with this forum is they treated young players as players who have completed their prime of football. Caicedo is still learning and will get better and I am convinced, majority of people will be changing their words on him.

He was fantastic last season. Yes the price tag was high but along with MacAllister and Mitoma, were their best players. But of course people are going to ridicule him and not give him a chance. First season in a disjointed squad. Give him time.

 

Wait. You're telling me a 21 year old can improve and it isn't all over and doom and gloom for us? 

I thought world class players are just world class. Doesn't matter the age. No one gets better and we need world class players everywhere right now. Why haven't we signed prime R9?