Graham Potter Thread

[Gundalf 804]

  On 18/02/2023 at 20:57, robsblubot said:

the way of playing is indeed tied to manager AND players.

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But it shouldnt be. The manager should be tied to a playing style, not the other way round. Just look at Barcelona. No matter who is manager there, their style of play is the same. Because they have an identity, a system that gives them a structure and helps everyone, from academy player to new staff, to settle in quickly. Actually its not la masia that is so good, its the club philosophy that allows young players to come thru seamlessly. 

Also, Pep has implemented a club philosophy at City by now. U can be sure, when Pep leaves, that the new manager will have to adapt to the same style of play that Pep implemented. You wont see City go to counterattacking football after Pep. The club dictates the football identity and picks the manager that can follow it.

Same goes for Bayern. 

The old DNA of hire and fire is just outdated. It doesnt work anymore. It worked 10 years ago, yes, new blood giving new vibes that boosts performances. That worked back in the day. Nowadays, successfull teams are teams that have a continuity, especially concerning the playing style.  

[Gundalf 804]

British media about Ferguson when he finished 11th!!! with United in his first season in 1987 😂

[gdlk 275]

He is still not fired?? Lol what they are waiting till we went in fight for relegation places 

[TheHulk 2,039]

[different level 1,056]

At this point I'm open to any other option. Just get this clueless puppet away from the club.

[TheHulk 2,039]

 

[Laylabelle 9,444]

Thing is we did enough to score except the scoring part! We could've played for hours and not scored. We can't score! 

[Vegetable 830]

I know it's not smart to seek sense or essence in press talk, but if we had actually "did enough to score" we'd… you know, score.  

Apparently, we didn't after all…

Edited February 18, 2023 by Vegetable

[Mhsc 984]

  On 18/02/2023 at 22:05, Vegetable said:

I know it's not smart to seek sense or essence in press talk, but if we had actually "did enough to score" we'd… you know, score.  

Apparently, we didn't after all…

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We created good opportunities as the xG shows - just wasted them - but it took Potter about 60 minutes to get a group of players on the pitch that could sort of play together. The goal they scored was an individual error from our captain who should not have been playing, which was Potter's mistake.

It is a bit harsh on him as ultimately the players have to kick it in the net but I 100% think at this point he has to be held accountable for results and if we got a new manager in we would go on a run for the rest of the season.

[Pizy 18,544]

There have been reports in recent weeks that the ownership is looking at Arteta’s situation as the blueprint with Potter. And it’s true that Arteta struggled massively early on and had numerous super rough patches, including points where many Arse fans called for his head. They truly feel that these are simply growing pains which are normal.

The big difference with Arteta was that the DNA and identity he wanted to install was clear from day 1. He wanted to replicate Pep’s Man City in North London. The ideas were clear from the jump even when the results didn’t come right away.

With Potter there is zero discernible style or idea evident in our play after months in charge. We look like a big group of strangers making it up as matches go along.

I truly do not understand what giving him more time is going to change. 

[NikkiCFC 8,121]

  On 18/02/2023 at 19:03, Vegetable said:

This is something that bugs me. This "project", especially after previous two windows and potential third being big pretty much hangs on CL money. I thought missing on Europe this year is pretty much a disaster and reduces the transfer ambitions already due to FFP, but twice? 

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UEFA only check teams regarding FFP that qualify for European comps. So if we miss out we are safe. It's genius when you think about it. 4D chess right there. 

[NikkiCFC 8,121]

  On 18/02/2023 at 18:15, TheHulk said:

This guy is shameless.

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He's absolutely right. 

[lucio 5,418]

  On 18/02/2023 at 22:27, Pizy said:

There have been reports in recent weeks that the ownership is looking at Arteta’s situation as the blueprint with Potter. And it’s true that Arteta struggled massively early on and had numerous super rough patches, including points where many Arse fans called for his head. They truly feel that these are simply growing pains which are normal.

The big difference with Arteta was that the DNA and identity he wanted to install was clear from day 1. He wanted to replicate Pep’s Man City in North London. The ideas were clear from the jump even when the results didn’t come right away.

With Potter there is zero discernible style or idea evident in our play after months in charge. We look like a big group of strangers making it up as matches go along.

I truly do not understand what giving him more time is going to change. 

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You could high a homeless man from the street and justify his continued employment with one day he will be good like arteta 

[robsblubot 3,595]

  On 18/02/2023 at 21:13, Gundalf said:

But it shouldnt be. The manager should be tied to a playing style, not the other way round. Just look at Barcelona. No matter who is manager there, their style of play is the same. Because they have an identity, a system that gives them a structure and helps everyone, from academy player to new staff, to settle in quickly. Actually its not la masia that is so good, its the club philosophy that allows young players to come thru seamlessly. 

Also, Pep has implemented a club philosophy at City by now. U can be sure, when Pep leaves, that the new manager will have to adapt to the same style of play that Pep implemented. You wont see City go to counterattacking football after Pep. The club dictates the football identity and picks the manager that can follow it.

Same goes for Bayern. 

The old DNA of hire and fire is just outdated. It doesnt work anymore. It worked 10 years ago, yes, new blood giving new vibes that boosts performances. That worked back in the day. Nowadays, successfull teams are teams that have a continuity, especially concerning the playing style.  

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It's not exactly like that. Managers have their own style of play and they may or may not be a fit in a particular club. I couldn't see Mourinho coaching Barca, to your point, for ex.

You cite very specific clubs and a handful of them. Not many clubs even take that approach of using a rigid system and style of play. Reckon that does not necessarily translate well to silverware as neither has been overly successful with the exception of City and only in the PL. Barca has been struggling for years... don't see anything seamless there--they play shit when they cannot sign the top player like anyone else. Bayern in particular is an overrated club that plays boring football in my book, but that's me. Arsenal had a very strong DNA under Wenger and wasn't that successful bar in a year or two. It's all relative.

It's obviously fine you want that. The question remains: what has Potter done in football that indicates he's capable of not only leading a club like Chelsea, but also implement a particular style of play? do you see something in Brighton you want at Chelsea? because I sure don't. 🤷‍♂️

Nobody here would complain if we hired Pep and he turned us into the same passing machine City is. Potter couldn't be farther from Pep tho IMO.

BTW, ironically I thought our team was playing in a very specific style under Tuchel and one that I very much like.

Edited February 19, 2023 by robsblubot

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

  On 18/02/2023 at 21:13, Gundalf said:

But it shouldnt be. The manager should be tied to a playing style, not the other way round. Just look at Barcelona. No matter who is manager there, their style of play is the same. Because they have an identity, a system that gives them a structure and helps everyone, from academy player to new staff, to settle in quickly. Actually its not la masia that is so good, its the club philosophy that allows young players to come thru seamlessly. 

Also, Pep has implemented a club philosophy at City by now. U can be sure, when Pep leaves, that the new manager will have to adapt to the same style of play that Pep implemented. You wont see City go to counterattacking football after Pep. The club dictates the football identity and picks the manager that can follow it.

Same goes for Bayern. 

The old DNA of hire and fire is just outdated. It doesnt work anymore. It worked 10 years ago, yes, new blood giving new vibes that boosts performances. That worked back in the day. Nowadays, successfull teams are teams that have a continuity, especially concerning the playing style.  

Expand  

 

That's not entirely accurate tho. In terms of playing style Bayern have tried everyting there is in their history amidst chopping and changing managers all few seasons. What they have consistency in however is how they select managers. They always pick those whose styles can be transitioned easy to and ideally built upon each other. They used to have a way more makeshift approach under Magath and the coaches that followed him brought together some eclectic stuff which put them into crisis in the late 00s. Then van Gaal came basically set the footballing identity that culminated in Guardiola with lots of poseesion, cycling through the middle and more conservative fullbacks allowing high quality wingers to stay up drift inside with an all round CF to mop up the chances. They used the Ancelotti and 2nd Heynckes term to switcht o a more direct approach with optional counters which has been cultivated by Kovac and now Nagelsmann, who also uses flying fullbacks in a 3atb occasionally...

The conclusion is, if you have robust, structures in place, processes, know -ow, traditons that are handed down by board generations on to the next (BAyern also gradually transitioned from the old Hoeneß-Rummennigge axis to now Kahn-Salhihamdzic with herbert Hainer as the economic-strategic brain in between with minimal frictional churn in the last few years) , it does not matter too much who is manager and what their specific philosphy is, cos they are handpicked so that they fit the experience and profile of the squad as well as the imprint previous coaches have left on them. To bet everything on one specific coaches philosophy without taking preconditions into account is just hella risky cos there is no guarantee the coach will even be able to transmit his ideas correctly and fit in personality-wise. We hopped back and forth with our managerial switches quite a lot. the change from Ancelotti to AVB was drastic and ultimately stupid, it did not fit the style we were used to and the strengths of an ageing but still highly gifted squad. Similarly appointing Sarri after Conte was a complete u-turn which might have worked cos we were rebuilding anyway and Sarri was somewhat competent but he did not suit the club or squad personality-wise at all.

Lampard for all his shortcomings has to be given credit for bringin in Chily, Silva and promoting James built a good foundation with that emphasis on dynamic midfield and flying fullbacks, so TT succeeded giving it  more control and solidity. Potter's style at Brighton was not too dissimilar from TT's. So I pondered maybe GP might be able to again built upon TT's ffoundations again hence I was not that critical of him at first. Albeit, I was disappointed for TT not been given more time I never expected him to be our man long term so like most ppl here gave GP a chance. But while I do not think GP is incompetent, he is clearly unable to get his messages across. he does not have the trust of the squad and I do not see how this will change only bc Todd persists with giving Potter time. We will just waste valuable years our younger players need to develop and build confidence.

[Mário César 1,071]

people need to stop compare arteta path with potter path

potter arrived at this club and Chelsea last year was 3nd and reach two cup finals and was eliminated by currently european champions in extra time!!!

in other hand, arteta inherited a problematic arsenal team with shit years in his "hand"

besids Chelsea spend a insane amount of money

stop compare both journeys please! 

[Reddish-Blue 2,428]

  On 18/02/2023 at 21:13, Gundalf said:

But it shouldnt be. The manager should be tied to a playing style, not the other way round. Just look at Barcelona. No matter who is manager there, their style of play is the same. Because they have an identity, a system that gives them a structure and helps everyone, from academy player to new staff, to settle in quickly. Actually its not la masia that is so good, its the club philosophy that allows young players to come thru seamlessly. 

Also, Pep has implemented a club philosophy at City by now. U can be sure, when Pep leaves, that the new manager will have to adapt to the same style of play that Pep implemented. You wont see City go to counterattacking football after Pep. The club dictates the football identity and picks the manager that can follow it.

Same goes for Bayern. 

The old DNA of hire and fire is just outdated. It doesnt work anymore. It worked 10 years ago, yes, new blood giving new vibes that boosts performances. That worked back in the day. Nowadays, successfull teams are teams that have a continuity, especially concerning the playing style.  

Expand  

Playing style doesn't mean anything if the manager is unable to get the message across to the majority of the players. 

And right now, it's quite clear that Potter is well out of his depth in getting the best out of these players.  

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 18/02/2023 at 18:22, Vesper said:

If not for JT's PK slip on the ultra dodgy Moscow pitch, the piss drinker's hubby would have won the CL.

Just as his predecessor José Mourinho had done, Grant completed his period as Chelsea manager without losing a single home game in the Premier League.

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Hes now the only manager with an unbeaten home record after Mourinho and Hiddink returned and lost there's.