🇳🇬 Mikel John Obi

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Weak human being? Based on what? Let's completely forget that Mikel STILL played for us whilst his father got abducted in Nigeria. Weak human being my ass.

A fair point, but he's not the type of guy I want in that position. Maybe I was a little unfair on him, but to me he isn't a leader of men. He isn't that big presence that you need in the centre of the park. I have to keep reminding myself that he's almost 26 and that he will have played about 250 games for the first-team, because he still reminds me of a kid sometimes.

Our success in recent years came on the back of men....leaders. Now we're reaching a point where he needs to step up and I simply don't think he does.

I've never known a Chelsea player so divide fans (apart from Torres maybe, although most people were on the same page with him). To my mind, he's not good enough to be one of the main men in the team.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Our success in recent years came on the back of men....leaders

Mikel has been vital for every success we've had since 2008, especially the double under Scolari and the CL and FA cup last year. You can't deny that. Didier, Frank and JT got the headlines, but we couldn't have done it without Mikel either.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Mikel has been vital for every success we've had since 2008, especially the double under Scolari and the CL and FA cup last year. You can't deny that. Didier, Frank and JT got the headlines, but we couldn't have done it without Mikel either.

Mikel played about as many games under Ancelotti in 2010 as Kalou did, didn't he?

Do you have any idea why he's so divisive amongst the fans?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mikel played about as many games under Ancelotti in 2010 as Kalou did, didn't he?

Mikel was immense under Carlo especially against what was then known as "the big 4". The game against Arsenal at the Emirates was his best game in a Chelsea shirt, imo, bar the CL final.

Do you have any idea why he's so divisive amongst the fans?

That has largely to do with his position. Name almost any pure DM and you'll split this forum in half. For example, Tiote, who is apparently "BOSS" and a "beast in FIFA" is no more than an average player to me; same goes for Diame (not a pure DM though). Heck, I even remember Makelele, who to me is one of the best DMs in history, had a large number of critics when he played here and was accused by some of slowing down our midfield.

The concept of a DM is not exciting to the majority of football fans. They like to see someone either making tackles and interceptions or scoring goals and assisting. But very few realize that, in midfield, containing the opposition and closing passing angles on defense and keeping possession and having more than 90% passing percentage on the offense is just as important.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That has largely to do with his position. Name almost any pure DM and you'll split this forum in half.

Claude Makelele. Adored by every Chelsea fan, missed by them too.

The concept of a DM is not exciting to the majority of football fans. They like to see someone either making tackles and interceptions or scoring goals and assisting. But very few realize that, in midfield, containing the opposition and closing passing angles on defense and keeping possession and having more than 90% passing percentage on the offense is just as important.

Ah, the 'football fans just don't understand him' argument. Two words, Claude Makelele.

Could it just be that Chelsea fans have been well educated on what a DM is supposed to do (we also got to see Deschamps up close and personal) and Mikel simply doesn't come up to our high standards? Could it be we're not dumb and that we do in fact know what DMs are supposed to do and no amount of stat-wanking will change that?

[Spike 12,049]

Nothing much to do with Mikel, but is that really true? I saw the highlights of the world cup final vs Italy, and in the first half he bombed forward ala Ramires, to support the build up play...Of course he had Viera playing with him in the double pivot, but I don't think he always just sat there in front of the defense. He was a lot more mobile than Mikel, with superior work rate.

Yeah, but that's only one game isn't it? He was probably given more freedom to go fowards when playing for France compared to when he was playing for Chelsea. I do agree that he is much more mobile that Mikel, but I thinks that more due to his size and body shape. He is much smaller and thinner than Mikel so I guess that loans itself to speed and agility. Not a decisive factor of course but influential.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Funny how he gets criticised sometimes but when he is gone for a shot or long period we realise how important he actually is to this Chelsea team. His qualities are unnoticed when he plays by some but when he is not we lack a presence for someone in that DM role that he provides. We are much more vulnerable without him and I can't wait to have him back in the starting 11. One of the most important, unsung heroes here.

You are mistaken. People don't miss Mikel but rather having a proper DM in the squad. He's only important (ish) because we have no one else.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Claude Makelele. Adored by every Chelsea fan, missed by them too.

Ah, the 'football fans just don't understand him' argument. Two words, Claude Makelele.

Could it just be that Chelsea fans have been well educated on what a DM is supposed to do (we also got to see Deschamps up close and personal) and Mikel simply doesn't come up to our high standards? Could it be we're not dumb and that we do in fact know what DMs are supposed to do and no amount of stat-wanking will change that?

Maka had his critics when he played here. Only after he left was he adored by every Chelsea fan.

Of course Mikel does not measure up to Makalele or Deschampe, but who in currently in the world does? That's like saying JT is shit because he is no where near Nesta or Beckenbauer.

I can debate Mikel's role and qualities as long as you want, but your hate for Mikel seems to be personal as you showed above by calling him a "weak human being" despite not knowing him personally.

And just for the record, what is wrong with statistics to back up an opinion? And I'm not aiming this at you, I've seen this comment a few times. Have we really reached a point where sarcasm and discrediting and disrespecting other's opinions are more welcomed into an argument than facts, logic and statistics? You have every right to criticize a certain statistic and explain why it is deceiving or does not tell the whole story but to discredit all statistics tells me more about you finding your own opinion not convincing and therefore having to discredit the others' opinions.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maka had his critics when he played here. Only after he left was he adored by every Chelsea fan.

Bull, and indeed shit. I never heard a single worg against him. Everyone I knew said he was underrated, when I think looking back that shows how valued he was. Just look at the Charlton game in 2005, where everyone loved the fact that he scored. We wanted him to score because we thought he deserved his name in lights for the season he had.

If Mikel doesn't score again I don't think many people would care.

Of course Mikel does not measure up to Makalele or Deschampe, but who in currently in the world does? That's like saying JT is shit because he is no where near Nesta or Beckenbauer.

So because there's a death of quality DMs, we should lower our standards? Plus JT stacks up very well against players like Bobby Moore in my opinion. He's not really the same type of player as Beckenbauer and he's better than Nesta in my opinion.

I can debate Mikel's role and qualities as long as you want, but your hate for Mikel seems to be personal as you showed above by calling him a "weak human being" despite not knowing him personally.

I don't hate him. I just wish he was better.

And how do you know I don't know him personally? How do you know I don't know people who know him? How do you know I don't know people who have coached him since the time he arrived in this country?

And just for the record, what is wrong with statistics to back up an opinion? And I'm not aiming this at you, I've seen this comment a few times. Have we really reached a point where sarcasm and discrediting and disrespecting other's opinions are more welcomed into an argument than facts, logic and statistics? You have every right to criticize a certain statistic and explain why it is deceiving or does not tell the whole story but to discredit all statistics tells me more about you finding your own opinion not convincing and therefore having to discredit the others' opinions.

Nothing wrong with statistics backing up an opinion, but it's when there's nothing but statistics without proper interpretation that it becomes meaningless. There are certain posters who seem to watch games entirely through the prism of stats and 'whoscored.com' rather than watching the matches themselves.

Like I said, I've never known of a player who so divides intelligent, thoughtful football fans like Mikel. I don't hate him and I don't think he's a rubbish player. I just don't think he's that great. There's nothing wrong with being an above-average player, but I don't think he's good enough to be a key player on this team. In fact I don't know if any other top club would conceivably bid for him. I've never heard of any other club being interested in him in fact.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Bull, and indeed shit. I never heard a single worg against him. Everyone I knew said he was underrated,

Just because you didn't know anyone, doesn't mean they didn't exist. I've heard quite a few people criticize him when he was here.

So because there's a death of quality DMs, we should lower our standards? Plus JT stacks up very well against players like Bobby Moore in my opinion. He's not really the same type of player as Beckenbauer and he's better than Nesta in my opinion.

My point (that you of course disagree with) Mikel is among the better DMs in the world now. He's no Makalele, but he's very good.

On a side note, JT better than Nesta? Seriously? John is my favorite current Chelsea player, but even I don't overrate this much.

And how do you know I don't know him personally? How do you know I don't know people who know him? How do you know I don't know people who have coached him since the time he arrived in this country?

Well do you know him personally? And I don't mean know someone who has met him or coached him. If so I apologize.

Nothing wrong with statistics backing up an opinion, but it's when there's nothing but statistics without proper interpretation that it becomes meaningless. There are certain posters who seem to watch games entirely through the prism of stats and 'whoscored.com' rather than watching the matches themselves.

My post did not contain any statistic and yet you felt the need attack all the use of statistics. If you believe your opinion is 100% logical, why so defensive and insecure?

This argument is just goes in circles and is unlikely to change anyone's mind. So I suggest we leave it at this. I know you'll reply because you seem to always want to have the last say ( kinda like my ex ) but I won't reply back.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Just because you didn't know anyone, doesn't mean they didn't exist. I've heard quite a few people criticize him when he was here.

Well they weren't at any of the games I went to, any of the trains I travelled on or any of the pubs I watched games in so I really don't value their opinion that highly.

My point (that you of course disagree with) Mikel is among the better DMs in the world now. He's no Makalele, but he's very good.

On a side note, JT better than Nesta? Seriously? John is my favorite current Chelsea player, but even I don't overrate this much.

Maybe we've just forgotten how good DMs can be?

And yes, JT is better than Nesta in my opinion. He reads the game better than almost any defender I can remember in the last decade which he had to do because (like Tony Adams and Bobby Moore) he didn't have much pace to rely on. Nesta is better physically and a truly tremendous defender, but JT's intangibles make him the better player in my opinion.

My post did not contain any statistic and yet you felt the need attack all the use of statistics. If you believe your opinion is 100% logical, why so defensive and insecure?

I'm not defensive or insecure and i made it clear that the over-reliance on statistics (when it suits people it should be noted) is not something unique to you, or even something you do. I was referring to the wider debate on Mikel which tends to include pass completion and how many passes went forward (which is a stupid debate to have).

This argument is just goes in circles and is unlikely to change anyone's mind. So I suggest we leave it at this. I know you'll reply because you seem to always want to have the last say ( kinda like my ex ) but I won't reply back.

I am very predictable, but my final point will go back to my first point (circular arguments indeed). I've never known a player to inspire such division amongst fans. I don't hate him like I might hate Torres, I just wish he was better. I wish he was younger so I could make excuses about him being inexperienced, or I wish he'd just take a game by the shirt rather than being a passenger too dependent on what those around him were doing.

I wish he'd just look like he was giving a shit once in a while. I wish he'd show some balls and assert himself, because he has the size and skill to do so. I wish he was a man, a leader. I wish he'd puff that chest out and put the team on his back.

But I just don't think that's who he is as a person.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Mikel rules.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mikel rules.

Lol. Yup, that about sums it up

[The only place to be 11,313]

Mikel rules.

I could respond with 'Mikel sucks', but that wouldn't be true. He's a decent squad player.

[Spike 12,049]

Well they weren't at any of the games I went to, any of the trains I travelled on or any of the pubs I watched games in so I really don't value their opinion that highly.

So you think less of someone if they don't/didn't go to the same pub/train/games as you?

[bushman 2,043]

Even though Mikel might not score any goals but he is still very valuable player for the club. Currently, the team misses him a lot, I feel.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So you think less of someone if they don't/didn't go to the same pub/train/games as you?

Really?

We're talking about people who are apparently Chelsea fans who were criticising Makelele. I didn't see any in his time at the club. I'm sure there might have been some guy in a Chelsea shirt sitting in a pub in Russia or the Congo shouting the odds at him, but I don't care about that guy's opinion.

[Spike 12,049]

Really?

We're talking about people who are apparently Chelsea fans who were criticising Makelele. I didn't see any in his time at the club. I'm sure there might have been some guy in a Chelsea shirt sitting in a pub in Russia or the Congo shouting the odds at him, but I don't care about that guy's opinion.

I know what your saying but some people could infer from your post that you disregard their opinions because they are foreign.

Here is how it could happen:

You use the phrase "apparently Chelsea fans" when describing those who criticise Mikel. So plastics or whatever you want to call them.

You say you didn't meet any in England.

Then you point out there probably is that sort of 'apparent fans' in other countries.

Therefore someone might infer that you think English fans are superior to foreign fans.

[bushman 2,043]

Really?

We're talking about people who are apparently Chelsea fans who were criticising Makelele. I didn't see any in his time at the club. I'm sure there might have been some guy in a Chelsea shirt sitting in a pub in Russia or the Congo shouting the odds at him, but I don't care about that guy's opinion.

Who cares whether you care about his opinion ? Just because he is not at the game you automatically condemned him.

Have you ever thought about what you are posting here ?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Therefore someone might infer that you think English fans are superior to foreign fans.

Nationality has got fuck all to do with it.