Timo Werner

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

2 hours ago, Mário César said:

Glad we sold hi

Not that I don't agree but with this same comment last 10 days in every thread of Mount, Havertz and Werner you collected all tokens!

[robsblubot 3,595]

He's just another "garbage player" who has won the biggest silverware there is. Opinions like that that just showcase one's knowledge of the game: like what is really important vs what one likes seeing on their tv.

[Mário César 1,233]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Not that I don't agree but with this same comment last 10 days in every thread of Mount, Havertz and Werner you collected all tokens!

but its the true. we made the right decision to all of them 

only Kovacic I don't have the same opinion, but I understand that he wanted the move to city

in the defense, was a disaster losing rudiger and AC for free, but there is nothing we can now but we need to accept and learn from the mistakes we made

[Mário César 1,233]

45 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

He's just another "garbage player" who has won the biggest silverware there is. Opinions like that that just showcase one's knowledge of the game: like what is really important vs what one likes seeing on their tv.

can you explain better?

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

31 minutes ago, Mário César said:

but its the true. we made the right decision to all of them 

only Kovacic I don't have the same opinion, but I understand that he wanted the move to city

in the defense, was a disaster losing rudiger and AC for free, but there is nothing we can now but we need to accept and learn from the mistakes we made

I consider AC same category player as Mount, Werner and Kai. Was always exposed in 4atb. Tricked many people he is good defender while playing 3atb for Conte and Tuchel. What happened was he was hiding under system and experienced defenders. Should never be in the same sentence with Rudiger. Kovacic also would be now last in the packing order behind Enzo, Caicedo and Lavia. Under Tuchel, Jorginho-Kante was starting pivot. I do rate Kova and Kai a bit but point is yes, all right decisions to be sold. It was impossible to level up with them. 

[Mário César 1,233]

18 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I consider AC same category player as Mount, Werner and Kai. Was always exposed in 4atb. Tricked many people he is good defender while playing 3atb for Conte and Tuchel. What happened was he was hiding under system and experienced defenders. Should never be in the same sentence with Rudiger. Kovacic also would be now last in the packing order behind Enzo, Caicedo and Lavia. Under Tuchel, Jorginho-Kante was starting pivot. I do rate Kova and Kai a bit but point is yes, all right decisions to be sold. It was impossible to level up with them. 

I don't disagree with any of that. the problem was losing them at zero cost. that's all. 

as for the midfielders and strikers, we score many more goals today than we did with those players. we've had success in the ucl thanks to tuchel, but mout, werner, kai and even kovavic were never going to be solutions in the medium to long term to make the leap to fighting for the title.

you only have to see that they've left and both mount (he's the worst of them all) and kova and kai aren't showing any more than they did with us.

with them, only top 4. 

our problem at the moment isn't attack, it's defense. 

 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Mário César

[robsblubot 3,595]

55 minutes ago, Mário César said:

can you explain better?

It was a suggestion that you are looking at things that *you* like in a team, which are *entertaining* to you, and have little to do with actually making a *TEAM* tick, which is what takes to win. You talk about players as if they were playing Tennis.

Chelsea is a very rich club. We are tested when we actually face teams who are at least as good, and have similar investment in football. Only then we see players who rise above and give you a competitive edge.

Mount and Werner (more Mount with key performances), have given us a competitive edge against the toughest opposition, and have helped the club to win the most important silverware there is. No, I'm not going to waste my time showing numbers and MotM accolades given the target audience here.
It was a very tough run against the best competition in the world at that moment, and they delivered the goods. Perhaps Mount's fitness struggles of late have something to do with what he did then? similar happened with Oscar after he ran himself into the ground to get us a PL.

I have far more respect for these players, winners, than players who have won jack shit.

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

34 minutes ago, Mário César said:

we've had success in the ucl thanks to tuchel

This is obvious. He made as unbreakable wall. Would never work long term or in league system tho. We conceded just 2 goals in knockout stage. Corner goal from Benzema and last minute wonder strike against Porto when it was already over. So pretty much nothing. Mendy was on fire. Silva, Rudiger were playing like best CBs in history and Azpi was also very solid. James and Chilwell were huge in that team and system. Kante and Jorginho pairing what to say? Both finished top5 for Ballon d or. They were to us what Rodri is for City. And after Tuchel and these 8 starting players you have front 3 our weakest link. Not just them 3, put Pulisic and Ziyech. In PL we also lacked goals. But luckily we most of the time needed just one to score. People say they pressed but this is not quality it's something manager tells you to do or don't. Unless you are big ego like Messi, Hazard, Neymar you gonna do it. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

23 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

This is obvious. He made as unbreakable wall. Would never work long term or in league system tho. We conceded just 2 goals in knockout stage. Corner goal from Benzema and last minute wonder strike against Porto when it was already over. So pretty much nothing. Mendy was on fire. Silva, Rudiger were playing like best CBs in history and Azpi was also very solid. James and Chilwell were huge in that team and system. Kante and Jorginho pairing what to say? Both finished top5 for Ballon d or. They were to us what Rodri is for City. And after Tuchel and these 8 starting players you have front 3 our weakest link. Not just them 3, put Pulisic and Ziyech. In PL we also lacked goals. But luckily we most of the time needed just one to score. People say they pressed but this is not quality it's something manager tells you to do or don't. Unless you are big ego like Messi, Hazard, Neymar you gonna do it. 

Unbreakable wall...

No defender, or defensive midfielder can handle the simplest thing in football: one-twos.
Rudiger, or Maldini, would look like Tal Ben Haim if he had to deal with one-twos without protection. You sound like we played with 11 players behind the ball parking the bus a la Mourinho, and it wasn't like that at all.

All players in that Tuchel team contributed a lot in defense especially Mount and Timo (Kai less so), with very high and relentless pressing. This demands very specific qualities in the attacking players, which we happened to have back then.

No manager can accomplish anything without the right players; suffice to take a look at Tuchel's career. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by robsblubot

[Mário César 1,233]

we won 2012 ucl and we needed to rebuild the large part of the squad to won again the premierleague in 2015

[Thor 2,689]

13 hours ago, robsblubot said:

It was a suggestion that you are looking at things that *you* like in a team, which are *entertaining* to you, and have little to do with actually making a *TEAM* tick, which is what takes to win. You talk about players as if they were playing Tennis.

Chelsea is a very rich club. We are tested when we actually face teams who are at least as good, and have similar investment in football. Only then we see players who rise above and give you a competitive edge.

Mount and Werner (more Mount with key performances), have given us a competitive edge against the toughest opposition, and have helped the club to win the most important silverware there is. No, I'm not going to waste my time showing numbers and MotM accolades given the target audience here.
It was a very tough run against the best competition in the world at that moment, and they delivered the goods. Perhaps Mount's fitness struggles of late have something to do with what he did then? similar happened with Oscar after he ran himself into the ground to get us a PL.

I have far more respect for these players, winners, than players who have won jack shit.

You're also the same person who said our current squad isn't good enough last season - and here we are in 2nd place.

 

Funnily enough you also called out the majority of our now best performers in Caceido, Cucu and Jackson...

Both Mount and Werner are examples of - just because you put a cat in the oven, doesn't make it a biscuit. Otherwise, just because they won, doesn't make them winners. The sun can shine on a dogs ass one day and things line up. Most of us are over the moon for that CL win, but are also realistic that it was opportunistic and completely out of nowhere for the most part. 

In fact, despite our ageing squad I think most would tell you our 2nd CL win was far more unexpected. 

Your logic is just dead in the water. Take basketball for instance. Am I supposed to believe Chris Bosh is a better player than Charles Barkley, or respect him more because he won and Charles didn't? That logic is even worse when you bring it over to soccer, which has 11 players, and is more likely to be determined by one off events/moments in a game. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

10 hours ago, Thor said:

You're also the same person who said our current squad isn't good enough last season - and here we are in 2nd place.

 

Funnily enough you also called out the majority of our now best performers in Caceido, Cucu and Jackson...

Both Mount and Werner are examples of - just because you put a cat in the oven, doesn't make it a biscuit. Otherwise, just because they won, doesn't make them winners. The sun can shine on a dogs ass one day and things line up. Most of us are over the moon for that CL win, but are also realistic that it was opportunistic and completely out of nowhere for the most part. 

In fact, despite our ageing squad I think most would tell you our 2nd CL win was far more unexpected. 

Your logic is just dead in the water. Take basketball for instance. Am I supposed to believe Chris Bosh is a better player than Charles Barkley, or respect him more because he won and Charles didn't? That logic is even worse when you bring it over to soccer, which has 11 players, and is more likely to be determined by one off events/moments in a game. 

Yes, and are you fucking kidding me? Do you really think we'd be 2nd with Muddy and Noni on the wings this season? Really?
Considering the number of acquisitions in attack, would you say that the club agreed with me or you?

Would be very nice if you did not make shit up, but that might be asking too much. Always liked Jackson and was unsure about Cucu, just like everybody else including the manager at the time. Caicedo isn't and never will be my favorite type, but he's playing well even lately as a RB. And who gives a fuck? They will earn my respect once they win something, not before.

I know what Timo was for that team, and he did what was needed. I respect that, so I'm not one to come here and call him a "nothing player." And he's twice the player Mudryk--one of the worst wingers I've seen in a while.
I'd suggest taking a look at Mount's numbers in 20/21/22 (not only CL just overall). Hint: Eden Hazard never came close to influencing games like that in CL.

I don't really care tbh. I know what I saw in that CL run, so I have my own opinion about what was important to win. Shit on winners all you like, but as a fan of Chelsea, not specific individuals, I always respect winner even the players I personally dislike.

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by robsblubot

[Thor 2,689]

7 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Yes, and are you fucking kidding me? Do you really think we'd be 2nd with Muddy and Noni on the wings this season? Really?
Considering the number of acquisitions in attack, would you say that the club agreed with me or you?

Would be very nice if you did not make shit up, but that might be asking too much. Always liked Jackson and was unsure about Cucu, just like everybody else including the manager at the time. Caicedo isn't and never will be my favorite type, but he's playing well even lately as a RB. And who gives a fuck? They will earn my respect once they win something, not before.

I know what Timo was for that team, and he did what was needed. I respect that, so I'm not one to come here and call him a "nothing player." And he's twice the player Mudryk--one of the worst wingers I've seen in a while.
I'd suggest taking a look at Mount's numbers in 20/21/22 (not only CL just overall). Hint: Eden Hazard never came close to influencing games like that in CL.

I don't really care tbh. I know what I saw in that CL run, so I have my own opinion about what was important to win. Shit on winners all you like, but as a fan of Chelsea, not specific individuals, I always respect winner even the players I personally dislike.

 

Who exactly did we buy this transfer window? Most complained about lack of incoming. 

I'd say they agreed with me, as they stuck with the core of players - which you said weren't and probably won't be good enough to get top 4. lol...

Never called Timo a nothing player. Hilarious you are comparing Mount to Hazard. Absolutely hilarious - even from an impact perspective. You're like most fans these days, only care about an outcome and not what actually went into it. Ridiculous take, and one in line with American sports thinking of "well he won more so he is better". 

I'm not shitting on winners. You just associate good/bad with an outcome that has many factors that go into it. 

Sports is about consistency. In your stupid example, give both players the same surroundings, and the team with Hazard 9/10 performs better than the one with Mount. We watch sports for the crazy things that can happen. 

The owners are trying to build the team with the highest propensity to consistently win. Much like how just about most football players cited City as the best team despite not having won a CL. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,489]

What has happened in this thread?     😆

 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,058]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

Who exactly did we buy this transfer window? Most complained about lack of incoming. 

Am I missing something, or some context, here?