Mateo Kovacic

[Vesper 28,769]

1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

 

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

That may be his ultimate position, albeit down the road when Jorginho gets too old. That also assumes Sarri is still our manager in 5,6 years.

Ampadu is similar to Frenkie de Jong.They can play almost any position (winger may be a stretch for Amps) on the field, except for Striker and GK.

de Jong is actually a really good CB (not at Matthijs de Ligt level, but you are talking about a soon top 10 CB in world in de Ligt).

Buying de Jong would give Sarri crazy flexibility, especially if we also bought Pavard (he can play RB, CB, trad DMF, even LB and CMF in a pinch) and then add in Ampadu to the floater mix.

It would be uber smart football, so that means our board will never even make the offers for de Jong or Pavard, lolol

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Players careers are short.  Get paid while you can.  And yes, at this point in time, every week that goes past, gives him more leverage.  350 is a ton of money, but 400 is better.  He holds all the cards right now.

I'm not really sure if I have the right principles to let a player -  even Eden - to basically hold the club to ransom to have his wages doubled.

What sort of message does it give the other players? Where do we draw the line?

Dont you get fed up with our player power?

I understand the arguments and I know its not black and white nut I just don't agree with the precedent it sets.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

10 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

I'm not really sure if I have the right principles to let a player -  even Eden - to basically hold the club to ransom to have his wages doubled.

What sort of message does it give the other players? Where do we draw the line?

Dont you get fed up with our player power?

I understand the arguments and I know its not black and white nut I just don't agree with the precedent it sets.

I guess that I just don't see it as "player power".  It's a free market and he's taking a gamble.  If he suffers a career threatening injury, what does he get then?  We also don't have to sell him next summer if we don't want to and he will have to "settle" for making half of his market wage for 2 years.

The other side of this the NFL where player's contracts aren't guaranteed, and you have situations like what happened this past weekend:  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/30/17921482/earl-thomas-seattle-seahawks-leg-injury-contract-dispute

Basically, a player wanted a contract extension, he's nearing the end of his career, but he's a future hall of fame player.  It's a violent sport and injuries can happen at any time.  The club wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't trade him to a team that would.  He got injured on the weekend, now he'll get substantially less this coming off season.

You get players who want to leave the club, but the club is under no obligation to sell them.  I don't subscribe to this "can't keep an unhappy player" thing.  If they want to move to Barcelona, sulking and not playing isn't going to get you there, IMO.  I'm sure Pogba does want to go to Barcelona, but Man Utd don't have to do anything.  

But, when there is 1.5 years left on a players contract, the dynamic changes and it becomes sell me next summer or lose me for free the year after.  I'm actually kind of surprised that transfer fees are what they are after the Bosman ruling since you are really only paying for the right to pay a player for 5 years (or so).  

I find it unsavoury when a player keeps saying that they are going to sign a new deal, then doesn't and stages a sit-out right before the season starts and let everyone know that you will only sign for 1 of 2 clubs (sound familiar?)  In that case you are effectively fucking the club.  

I guess that there's a right way to do it an a wrong way to do it.  Hazard is holding all the cards because he's good enough to hold them.  Moses can go ahead an do the same thing if he wants.

[Unionjack 7,531]

3 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I guess that I just don't see it as "player power".  It's a free market and he's taking a gamble.  If he suffers a career threatening injury, what does he get then?  We also don't have to sell him next summer if we don't want to and he will have to "settle" for making half of his market wage for 2 years.

The other side of this the NFL where player's contracts aren't guaranteed, and you have situations like what happened this past weekend:  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/30/17921482/earl-thomas-seattle-seahawks-leg-injury-contract-dispute

Basically, a player wanted a contract extension, he's nearing the end of his career, but he's a future hall of fame player.  It's a violent sport and injuries can happen at any time.  The club wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't trade him to a team that would.  He got injured on the weekend, now he'll get substantially less this coming off season.

You get players who want to leave the club, but the club is under no obligation to sell them.  I don't subscribe to this "can't keep an unhappy player" thing.  If they want to move to Barcelona, sulking and not playing isn't going to get you there, IMO.  I'm sure Pogba does want to go to Barcelona, but Man Utd don't have to do anything.  

But, when there is 1.5 years left on a players contract, the dynamic changes and it becomes sell me next summer or lose me for free the year after.  I'm actually kind of surprised that transfer fees are what they are after the Bosman ruling since you are really only paying for the right to pay a player for 5 years (or so).  

I find it unsavoury when a player keeps saying that they are going to sign a new deal, then doesn't and stages a sit-out right before the season starts and let everyone know that you will only sign for 1 of 2 clubs (sound familiar?)  In that case you are effectively fucking the club.  

I guess that there's a right way to do it an a wrong way to do it.  Hazard is holding all the cards because he's good enough to hold them.  Moses can go ahead an do the same thing if he wants.

I also look at it from other players pont of view. We have the Wee Baldy Man on £120k Jorgi on £100k who are also arguably world class and play 90 mins every game while Drinkwater is on £120k and NEVER plays and Cescy is on £160k playing when theres a blue moon.

I believe in giving a man what hes worth but we also need equality and limits.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

35 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

I also look at it from other players pont of view. We have the Wee Baldy Man on £120k Jorgi on £100k who are also arguably world class and play 90 mins every game while Drinkwater is on £120k and NEVER plays and Cescy is on £160k playing when theres a blue moon.

I believe in giving a man what hes worth but we also need equality and limits.

Yeah, I think that's a problem.  Our wage structure is out of whack.  Personally, I think it can cause issues in the dressing room.  I was at a job once where I found out that the guy sitting next to me was doing 60% of the work I was doing and making 1.5x as much.  It didn't take me long to leave that job for something else.  

You have to pay everyone what they are worth.  You think there aren't guys in the Utd dressing room who look over a Sanchez when he's strolling around and thinking "WTF!?!?"

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Yeah, I think that's a problem.  Our wage structure is out of whack.  Personally, I think it can cause issues in the dressing room.  I was at a job once where I found out that the guy sitting next to me was doing 60% of the work I was doing and making 1.5x as much.  It didn't take me long to leave that job for something else. 

Exactly. Happened to me the other way round. I was on a year contract at this banks comp room earning a shit load doing nothimg winding it down for their office move. 3 guys above me in same room on about a 1/3 of what I got went thru my briefcase found a payslip. Kicked up shit and it was me that had to go LOL Still had to pay me 1/2 my contract tho haha

Peeps have very strange egos concerning their value to something so it can be a very difficult balance.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

8 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Exactly. Happened to me the other way round. I was on a year contract at this banks comp room earning a shit load doing nothimg winding it down for their office move. 3 guys above me in same room on about a 1/3 of what I got went thru my briefcase found a payslip. Kicked up shit and it was me that had to go LOL Still had to pay me 1/2 my contract tho haha

Peeps have very strange egos concerning their value to something so it can be a very difficult balance.

Funny how people react.  Personally, I would have asked for a raise if I were one of the other guys.  In my particular situation, I didn't think the place was all that and it was always a stepping stone, it just sped everything up for me.  But, I never begrudged the other guy for making more, if that's what he could get from the company, good for him.  

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

15 hours ago, Unionjack said:

I also look at it from other players pont of view. We have the Wee Baldy Man on £120k Jorgi on £100k who are also arguably world class and play 90 mins every game while Drinkwater is on £120k and NEVER plays and Cescy is on £160k playing when theres a blue moon.

I believe in giving a man what hes worth but we also need equality and limits.

The numbers regarding Drinkwater are probably some of the absolute worst dealings that our board has done in the last 20 years. 40m fee and 100k per month, for someone everyone knew wasnt good enough to play here are beyond any explanation, english or not. You have bunch of players who could fit that spot, for third of what we forked on Drinks.

Bakayoko was hyped up talent and it made sense to pay 40m then. But Drinkwater, thats the deal our board should be paying from their own pockets for such a fuck up.

I know football is unpredictable and you never know how things will turn out. Not a single board is perfect in their dealings, but our board had so many fuck ups in the past few years that this isnt coincidence or ''who could predict?'' anymore. KDB, Lukaku, Salah sales, bunch of wasted buys, all the failed negotiations and there is big big chance RLC and Christensen will leave soon who will both end up very very decent players at least.

Get a damn person who actualy knows football business. Thanks to Conte and Sarri we are actualy managing fine considering everything.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

23 hours ago, Vesper said:

In my fantasyland world, we would scupper Shitty to Neves. He has insane upside and can play any role in the MF,but,most importantly the Jorginho role (DH DMF)

Zero chance we drop £100m on him though.

Frenkie de Jong is the other young superstar in the making who can play DH DMF too (along with, (and this crazy), traditional DMF, CB, LB, RB, CMF, AMF, and even winger) Itis also fantasyland we land him,as even more than Neves, ALL, EVERY top ten, top 15 club want de Jong badly.

Santiago Ascacíbar (21yo Argentine) from Stuttgart would be great b/u,but he is also going to be VERY costly

Jean-Philippe Gbamin ,23yo Cote d'Ivoire on FSV Mainz 05 in the Bundesliga is also going to be really pricey,and is more of a traditional DMF

Same for 21yo Frenchman Lucas Tousart from Lyon (my dog, is that team LOADED with young talent)

Other options are also not cheap, Julian Weigl from Dortmund (Shitty on him too) and then the most realistic I think, Leandro Paredes from Zenit (Roma had to sell him and Rudiger to meet FFP)

Stanislav Lobotka (23yo Slovakian) from Celta Vigo often plays in a kind of Jorginho role too, and Spurs and PSG are all over him, Spuds has a £31m bid turned down at the window's end this summer.

I was shocked AC Milan sold Manuel Locatelli (20yo) for only £9m to Sassuolo this summer.He is already helping them immensely (they are only not in 3rd place in Serie A due to goal differential, as their defence has been shit). 

Sander Berge (20yo Norwegian who is exploding at Genk) is another possible option, but not sotested. Big lad too, 1.93m

Santiago Cáseres, 21yo Argentine who Villarreal just bought is another one

Danilo Barbosa da Silva on Nice  (22yo Brasilian) is also out there

 

Ascacibar is more of a B2B type if IIRC.  Weigl isn't going to happen.  Even if we did pay the large fee, I don't think he'd come here to play second fiddle.  Parades is a possibility, not a bad one.  Locatelli would be good as well.  The others, I don't know.

23 hours ago, Unionjack said:

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

I'm not convinced that he's the right player.  I see him in central defence.  If he does end up in midfield, I'm not convinced that a deep lying playmaker is his long term role.

[Unionjack 7,531]

11 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

The others, I don't know.

LOL It takes me ages going thru her posts checking out the players names I never heard of, But it has opened my mind to more options than the household names I'm aware of as I don't watch many European matches unless they  are big cup or Internationals.

[akgw13 867]

This guy has got a battery pack similar to Kante. It feels like he plays in every single game for club and country. Minimum 65-70' and often the full 90' and he just continues to fly around the pitch. I hope Sarri starts to manage his time a little bit, he is an immense player for us so we don't need him burning out.

[Special Juan 27,423]

He reminds e of Eden in a little way, his balance is fantastic and the way he can shift the ball foot to foot is sublime.

Love everything about him.

[Vesper 28,769]

Kovacic taking in London

 

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Kovacic taking in London

 

Should buy a house, then he could do this every day when not at training or match days, for next 5-6 (+) years.

[Vesper 28,769]

“I like it a lot here” – Mateo Kovacic has nice things to say about Chelsea when asked if he will stay beyond loan deal

https://www.chelsea-news.co/2018/10/like-lot-mateo-kovacic-nice-things-say-chelsea-asked-will-stay-beyond-loan-deal/

Chelsea midfielder Mateo Kovacic has lifted the lid on his stay in London so far insisting he will like to exhaust all the months in the loan deal before firming up whether he leaves or stays next summer.

The Croatia international has become an important player in Maurizio Sarri’s squad this season after he was used as a bargaining chip by Real Madrid in their pursuit of Thibaut Courtois last summer. The central midfielder arrived at Chelsea in the dying hours of the transfer window but has quickly acclimatized to life in West London.

Despite having more playing time that he was used to in Madrid over the three years he spent there, Kovacic is still leaving his options open.

“It’s too early for these questions, I am here and very happy. [Playing regularly] is good, I’m a little bit tired. I was not used to playing every three or four games and here it is very tough football.

You can’t relax against anybody so it’s a little bit difficult but I really enjoy it. We have a great team, great fans and the city is nice. I like it a lot here.”

Mateo Kovacic, Evening Standard

Snip

[Vybzkartel 284]

People are getting carried away with Barkley and RLC's form Kovacic is still our best starting mid in that 8 position in most games. He links the midfield and attack well, breaks the lines well, passes well, retains the ball and overall is a better defender. Its good Ross and Ruben are pushing him but lets not get carried away. Im seeing a lot of bin Kovacic and dont sign him on a permanent deal when in actual fact we need to, just a year ago we had Bakayoko and Drinkwater starting games and peple have the audacity to question us signing a quality young mid like Kova??

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

Kovacic is the only one out of the 4 midfielders (Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, RLC) that can play both midfield spots (not counting our DLP).  If anything, he's kind of the most important piece because he can be on the bench and sub for anyone (probably including Jorginho), or start in either of the 2 advanced midfield spots and the other 3 rotate around him.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

43 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Kovacic is the only one out of the 4 midfielders (Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, RLC) that can play both midfield spots (not counting our DLP).  If anything, he's kind of the most important piece because he can be on the bench and sub for anyone (probably including Jorginho), or start in either of the 2 advanced midfield spots and the other 3 rotate around him.

I think he can play all 3 and he is also able to play on the wing if necessary. But IMO Barkley and RLC both can play there too (apart from DLP) so that really should not be it. Kovacic came in with great form and immediately looked undisputed starter, esp with Barkley struggling for form initially. But now both, Barkley and RLC have delivered in impressive fashion and I can see why they are playing with the form they are in, no midfielder in this squad can rest on his laurels with the competition we have there. I still think Kovacic is the most talented naturally. But RLC and BArkley have quite decent technique plus are physical monsters with height, strength and pace. Now they are also scroing goals. You can see why they are playing.