Superblue 6,372 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: What exactly has that guy done to be regarded any better than baka or DD? Baka had a 100 tines more successful season than this guy last season so just can't seem to understand your logic. He's learned the midfield basics of being able to control and pass a football for starters. Bakayoko's season here showed how alarming his deficiencies are in the above when you're getting pressed and swarmed over. The Italian league is a much slower and less frenetic pace than the Premier League. It gives someone like Bakayoko far more time to be able to concentrate on getting those basics in his game correct. Jorginho is another proof of this and how difficult he found it to adapt to people either tactically taking him out of the game or pressing him high up the pitch. The difference is Jorginho is a far better player technically than Bakayoko to adapt to this given time, the results of which was a much higher level of performance in the last few weeks of the season. I would take Kovacic 100% of the time over taking a punt on Bakayoko again because technically he's just not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Tomo said: Name the things Baka did better, the odd goal and what? Did not he win like 5/6 MoTM in a spell of 10 serie A games? He played the b2B to perfection. Breaking up play, carrying the ball and yes "the odd goal". Now tell me what did Kovacic did better than Baka not just last season but for the past 3/4 seasons, except for outputless dribbling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said: He's learned the midfield basics of being able to control and pass a football for starters. Bakayoko's season here showed how alarming his deficiencies are in the above when you're getting pressed and swarmed over. The Italian league is a much slower and less frenetic pace than the Premier League. It gives someone like Bakayoko far more time to be able to concentrate on getting those basics in his game correct. Jorginho is another proof of this and how difficult he found it to adapt to people either tactically taking him out of the game or pressing him high up the pitch. The difference is Jorginho is a far better player technically than Bakayoko to adapt to this given time, the results of which was a much higher level of performance in the last few weeks of the season. I would take Kovacic 100% of the time over taking a punt on Bakayoko again because technically he's just not good enough. Did you watch monaco the season before we bought baka?  Also the fact that most on here have to go to "baka is not good enough, so buy kovacic" shows exactly what this buy is. A panic/short-term buy which would go down as another 40mil down the drain. If baka and DD are not the answer (which I made sure to write in my first post), then so is not kovacic. Wasting 40mil on kovacic is not even going to help us get top 6 in case jorginho/kante actually get injured long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: What exactly has that guy done to be regarded any better than baka or DD? Baka had a 100 tines more successful season than this guy last season so just can't seem to understand your logic. Have people erased 2017/18 from their memory? Things may have gone better for him at Milan but he was absolutely horrendous when he played for us (that Watford game LOL!). And it's hard to not feel a little skeptical over players coming from Serie A to the Premier League. We have seen players do well in the former but struggle when it comes to the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, 1905didierblue said: Did not he win like 5/6 MoTM in a spell of 10 serie A games? He played the b2B to perfection. Breaking up play, carrying the ball and yes "the odd goal". Are people seriously using MOTM awards as some sort of barometer now? You're over-exaggerating his impact at Milan. Gattuso complained several times about Bakayoko's lack of ability and Bakayoko even had that public spat with Gattuso late last season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-agree-to-buy-mateo-kovacic-for-403m-from-real-madrid-a4177091.html Chelsea decided they had to act for two main reasons. Firstly, the transfer ban is likely to remain in place – despite the club appealing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Then there is the fact that Ruben Loftus-Cheek is unlikely to return from a ruptured Achilles tendon until the end of the year and with Danny Drinkwater out of favour, Chelsea are lacking experienced options in that area of the pitch.     It has been reported in Spain that incoming manager Frank Lampard, who has been offered a three-year contract to replace Maurizio Sarri, has been consulted and approved the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: Did you watch monaco the season before we bought baka? That's like saying "Did you watch Higuain at Napoli?"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Jason said: Are people seriously using MOTM awards as some sort of barometer now? You're over-exaggerating his impact at Milan. Gattuso complained several times about Bakayoko's lack of ability and Bakayoko even had that public spat with Gattuso late last season! Gattuso's comments were very early in the season and the spat was very late on. Milan's best period co-incided with baka's form and performances. Co-incidence? I think not. MoTM awards are a much better barometer than a statement saying "he really really did not" without any evidence to the contrary. Kovacic was piss poor the whole season long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 If it makes people feel any better, just pretend signing Kovacic is part of the deal for Hazard... Vesper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: Did not he win like 5/6 MoTM in a spell of 10 serie A games? He played the b2B to perfection. Breaking up play, carrying the ball and yes "the odd goal". Now tell me what did Kovacic did better than Baka not just last season but for the past 3/4 seasons, except for outputless dribbling Oh you meant this season, sorry I misread and thought you was comparing there respective times at Chelsea. Given we want to transition to a more possession based style of play yes I would much rather have Kova. If Frank persists with him in the attacking position of the 3 then yes I agree he would be a waste but in one of the other two I think he will turn out well (especially if Lampard plays a double pivot as he can sit back while Kante does his forays forward). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, Jason said: That's like saying "Did you watch Higuain at Napoli?"... He turned 30 lost his athleticism and pace. Compared to a 25 year old young midfielder who was injured, brought on earlier than expected and seemed to struggle in a league. Well baka has had 2 good seasons either side of his poor one here. Now since we are or should be talking about kovacic (rather than trying to justify his transfer by comparision with baka), tell me what has he done last season to be bought in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, 1905didierblue said: Gattuso's comments were very early in the season and the spat was very late on. Milan's best period co-incided with baka's form and performances. Co-incidence? I think not. Right, let's pretend Milan didn't sign Piatek mid-season and he never scored all those goals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, 1905didierblue said: He turned 30 lost his athleticism and pace. Compared to a 25 year old young midfielder who was injured, brought on earlier than expected and seemed to struggle in a league. Well baka has had 2 good seasons either side of his poor one here. Now since we are or should be talking about kovacic (rather than trying to justify his transfer by comparision with baka), tell me what has he done last season to be bought in this one. Kovacic isn't world class, I'll give you that. But at the very least, he's solid and steady in an unspectacular way. Can act as a decent backup to Jorginho and if we're gonna continue playing attacking football, then Kovacic is the better fit than Bakayoko due to having superior technical ability. And by the way, your expectations must have been low if you deem Bakayoko's season at Milan as good and the one at Monaco was only ONE season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superblue 6,372 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: Did you watch monaco the season before we bought baka?  Also the fact that most on here have to go to "baka is not good enough, so buy kovacic" shows exactly what this buy is. A panic/short-term buy which would go down as another 40mil down the drain. If baka and DD are not the answer (which I made sure to write in my first post), then so is not kovacic. Wasting 40mil on kovacic is not even going to help us get top 6 in case jorginho/kante actually get injured long term. Not much, but I watched more than enough of him at Chelsea to know he will go down as one of the worst players I've seen in a Chelsea shirt, and that goes for the Pre-Roman years too. As I put on an earlier post, if we can sell Bakayoko and recoup as much of his fee as possible and it's being re-used on signing Kovacic I'm fine with that. I see Kovacic as a massive upgrade on Bakayoko for the points I've already made. In a team that will look to control games you need midfielders that can recycle the ball and are comfortable enough in possession under pressure with the ability and confidence to beat the press. This is all based on the assumption that Kovacic will compete with Jorginho and Kante for playing a deeper role. If he's used in an advanced role like Sarri did last season then I would then agree that it's a waste of money because his skill-set isn't suited for that role. Johnnyeye, Fernando, Tomo and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulham Broadway 17,317 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Frank can teach him how to be a 20 goal a season man the wes and Johnnyeye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jason said: Kovacic isn't world class, I'll give you that. But at the very least, he's solid and steady in an unspectacular way. Can act as a decent backup to Jorginho and if we're gonna continue playing attacking football, then Kovacic is the better fit than Bakayoko due to having superior technical ability. And by the way, your expectations must have been low if you deem Bakayoko's season at Milan as good and the one at Monaco was only ONE season! We are buying kovacic and you are talking about lowering expectations .  https://www.whoscored.com/Players/135211/Show/Tiemoué-Bakayoko https://www.whoscored.com/Players/93894/Show/Mateo-Kovacic Well, I dont know what exact barometers are we looking for but independent sites show baka to have had a better season.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1905didierblue 748 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said: Not much, but I watched more than enough of him at Chelsea to know he will go down as one of the worst players I've seen in a Chelsea shirt, and that goes for the Pre-Roman years too. As I put on an earlier post, if we can sell Bakayoko and recoup as much of his fee as possible and it's being re-used on signing Kovacic I'm fine with that. I see Kovacic as a massive upgrade on Bakayoko for the points I've already made. In a team that will look to control games you need midfielders that can recycle the ball and are comfortable enough in possession under pressure with the ability and confidence to beat the press. This is all based on the assumption that Kovacic will compete with Jorginho and Kante for playing a deeper role. If he's used in an advanced role like Sarri did last season then I would then agree that it's a waste of money because his skill-set isn't suited for that role. Even if we consider that you are right that "kovacic is a massive upgrade to baka and DD", how does kovacic help us? Kovacic is exactly the kind of buy that makes the progression of youngsters impossible. He is a bang average player who provides nothing to us. He is not going to win us games, score goals, control the tempo or help us better our position in the PL table. It is just another buy that we will be looking on in a couple of year's time and crying that look we have spent 600m+ on such players and have nothing to show for it (referring to the conversation some people were having in the "BOARD" forum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando 6,585 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I'm okay with this. Need depth and he is good to have at the team. Like Jorgi he should be better next season. Stats and Johnnyeye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 54 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said: We are buying kovacic and you are talking about lowering expectations . If we could sign players this summer, then I would have preferred us to sign someone else over Kovacic. But since we can’t and given our current situation, I don’t necessarily mind this and I prefer his inclusion over Drinkwater, Bakayoko etc! 1 hour ago, 1905didierblue said: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/135211/Show/Tiemoué-Bakayoko https://www.whoscored.com/Players/93894/Show/Mateo-Kovacic Well, I dont know what exact barometers are we looking for but independent sites show baka to have had a better season. Both didn’t even play the same number of games/minutes, seems like a fair comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyeye 7,510 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said: Frank can teach him how to be a 20 goal a season man atta boy  Fulham Broadway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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