Álvaro Morata

[Vesper 28,786]

3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

 Firmino and Salah aint even strikers.

LOLOLOLOL

Firminho not a striker?

I draw the line here, this is some divvy shit.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

5 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Others playing shit shouldnt justify our players can play shit. Lukaku isnt anywhere the quality you want to compare your striker with if you want success. Firmino and Salah aint even strikers. Aguero offers much more than just goals to the team...

And Morata realy picked form in past month or so, he was shit in almost every game prior. Cant be said for most of other strikers.

Morata was shit in some games yes but Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero don't always perform 10/10 every week but they get goals in games and their fans don't say anything bad. Both are top top players but some times only really get involved by taking 7-10 shots a game (3/4s of them from absolutely ridiculous positions) or scoring a goal. Aguero and Kanes all round game is very good but still you don't see them rant and rave about it every week? Because they don't always deliver a 10/10 performance every week which people seem to think is 100% possible over the space of a 40 game season. Even Ronaldo and Messi play shit sometimes, but they'll play bad and score or play good and not score etc.

Also that Lukaku comment, let's not forget half the forum probably wanted to resign him a few summer's ago, even the manager wanted to. I don't disagree that he's overrated perhaps and his technical skills aren't amazing but if hes scoring 20-30 goals a season with average technique, he's delivering something.

 

Not a post directed at anybody in particular, a lot of this shit is on social media, but honestly it's quite ridiculous sometimes regarding Morata and other players here. Morata can play well not score get crucified for not scoring then score 4 in a row and get crucified only scoring by looks of it. The first 10 games of his Chelsea career people were probably saying he was one of the top 3 or 5 strikers in the PL... so it just shows how fickle people can be.

I get an unbearable feeling that regardless of which player we sign or whatever, somebody will find some stupid reason to complain. You find a striker who plays 10/10 each week, always scores goals, always does everything every match he plays? Your not going to find anybody. Was the same with Costa, scored 20 goals a season but oh he is too physical and not technical enough... or he doesn't want to be here he woukd rather be in China so sell him etc... it's fucking ridiculous in all honestly not sure if these folk are actually fans of Chelsea or wind up merchants 😂 now it's Kantes turn as well it would seem, he can't play Sarri ball etc cause he cannot tackle someone else if our team has the ball, he can only play as a pure DM etc... never seen so much shite in all my life, the guy is a 2 time PL winner and world cup winner in an amazing French team if he could only tackle he wouldn't play for the French national team ffs 😂 and a lot of crap about Azpilicueta where there's some sort of assumption he's finished because he's had mixed performances after 2 years playing in a back 3... Jesus  

[BlueLyon 9,359]

13 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Morata was shit in some games yes but Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero don't always perform 10/10 every week but they get goals in games and their fans don't say anything bad. Both are top top players but some times only really get involved by taking 7-10 shots a game (3/4s of them from absolutely ridiculous positions) or scoring a goal. Aguero and Kanes all round game is very good but still you don't see them rant and rave about it every week? Because they don't always deliver a 10/10 performance every week which people seem to think is 100% possible over the space of a 40 game season. Even Ronaldo and Messi play shit sometimes, but they'll play bad and score or play good and not score etc.

Also that Lukaku comment, let's not forget half the forum probably wanted to resign him a few summer's ago, even the manager wanted to. I don't disagree that he's overrated perhaps and his technical skills aren't amazing but if hes scoring 20-30 goals a season with average technique, he's delivering something.

 

Not a post directed at anybody in particular, a lot of this shit is on social media, but honestly it's quite ridiculous sometimes regarding Morata and other players here. Morata can play well not score get crucified for not scoring then score 4 in a row and get crucified only scoring by looks of it. The first 10 games of his Chelsea career people were probably saying he was one of the top 3 or 5 strikers in the PL... so it just shows how fickle people can be.

I get an unbearable feeling that regardless of which player we sign or whatever, somebody will find some stupid reason to complain. You find a striker who plays 10/10 each week, always scores goals, always does everything every match he plays? Your not going to find anybody. Was the same with Costa, scored 20 goals a season but oh he is too physical and not technical enough... or he doesn't want to be here he woukd rather be in China so sell him etc... it's fucking ridiculous in all honestly not sure if these folk are actually fans of Chelsea or wind up merchants 😂 now it's Kantes turn as well it would seem, he can't play Sarri ball etc cause he cannot tackle someone else if our team has the ball, he can only play as a pure DM etc... never seen so much shite in all my life, the guy is a 2 time PL winner and world cup winner in an amazing French team if he could only tackle he wouldn't play for the French national team ffs 😂 and a lot of crap about Azpilicueta where there's some sort of assumption he's finished because he's had mixed performances after 2 years playing in a back 3... Jesus  

I always wanted to keep Costa until there would be proper replacement available. 

I stand corrected for Lukaku, he is big fish in small pond. Delivers against poor teams, but goes missing against big. His record numbers dont tell the story at all. 

I would have Kane or Aguero and wouldnt complain. They do their job, simple as that. Sure not 10/10 every game but solid 7/8 in most. Morata was about 9 in recent games but 4 in august and september. 

I was more happy with Etoo being our striker back then than with Morata so far. But he can improve for sure. At the beggining I was realy excited, but later on he became one whinny bitch and we need proper striker up front. Costa wasnt scoring each game, but would take his presence ahead of invisible crying Morata anyday. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

16 hours ago, Vesper said:

LOLOLOLOL

Firminho not a striker?

I draw the line here, this is some divvy shit.

You cant possibly be serious about Firmino being a striker? 

He is more of central forward or secondary/supporting striker/False 9. 

[Vesper 28,786]

13 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

You cant possibly be serious about Firmino being a striker? 

He is more of central forward or secondary/supporting striker/False 9. 

He often plays a straight striker role aka CF, as well as secondary striker

[BlueLyon 9,359]

33 minutes ago, Vesper said:

He often plays a straight striker role aka CF, as well as secondary striker

Wait what? "Straight" striker isnt central forward lady...

You can throw Hazard in Morata place and he wont be a striker, but cf.

Firmino isnt striker either, but CF, because his role in Klopp system isnt to just score goals, but set them up.

Just check this out;

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-Center-Forward-CF-and-Striker-ST-Is-it-based-only-on-the-formation

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

48 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

You cant possibly be serious about Firmino being a striker? 

He is more of central forward or secondary/supporting striker/False 9. 

Honestly hate to be awkward but isn't a central forward a striker? I know theres different types but that two phrases are one and all the same. Firminio has been playing as a CF since Klopp went to Liverpool no point disputing it. 

 

51 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I always wanted to keep Costa until there would be proper replacement available. 

I stand corrected for Lukaku, he is big fish in small pond. Delivers against poor teams, but goes missing against big. His record numbers dont tell the story at all. 

I would have Kane or Aguero and wouldnt complain. They do their job, simple as that. Sure not 10/10 every game but solid 7/8 in most. Morata was about 9 in recent games but 4 in august and september. 

I was more happy with Etoo being our striker back then than with Morata so far. But he can improve for sure. At the beggining I was realy excited, but later on he became one whinny bitch and we need proper striker up front. Costa wasnt scoring each game, but would take his presence ahead of invisible crying Morata anyday. 

Honestly wouldn't say Morata played that poorly in some of those games the months before but it's typical of Chelsea fans to talk down their players, the same has been going on with Alonso, Kante and Azpi this season. Just be glad we don't have Torres upfront. If Morata was shit in August/September then don't know how bad Torres would have been.

Also regarding Costa when he didn't score people were losing their minds... although he is undoubtedly missed because he can affect games without scoring by using his presence like you said. Morata is struggling because he prefers to run behind teams and there's no space because of teams playing with a low block. When we do get at teams we are constantly trying to playing through the middle, Ruud made an interesting point on MOTD, the service isn't always there, get the ball in the box sooner and the guy may get more chances. It's not the reason for everything but it's a factor along with his loss of form, confidence and injuries he had last season too. Still think there's a top player in there.

[Vesper 28,786]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Wait what? "Straight" striker isnt central forward lady...

You can throw Hazard in Morata place and he wont be a striker, but cf.

Firmino isnt striker either, but CF, because his role in Klopp system isnt to just score goals, but set them up.

Just check this out;

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-Center-Forward-CF-and-Striker-ST-Is-it-based-only-on-the-formation

quora, lol

striker and CF are used interchangeably by all on thsi board and in real life

sorry but you are fighting a losing cause (needlessly) on this one

also

IF we were given Firmino

he sure as hell would be playing, starting over Morata and Giroud at striker, at CF at whatever position you call where thy play

same for Dybala

see zero point to thsi whole string

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

31 minutes ago, Vesper said:

quora, lol

striker and CF are used interchangeably by all on thsi board and in real life

sorry but you are fighting a losing cause (needlessly) on this one

also

IF we were given Firmino

he sure as hell would be playing, starting over Morata and Giroud at striker, at CF at whatever position you call where thy play

same for Dybala

see zero point to thsi whole string

 

You will find those examples everywhere, thought quora will give u simple explanation but i guess not.

I think that you dont see difference between role and position? CF and striker all play in same spot, but their role is different.

Everyone will tell you Firmino and Dybala are not strikers haha even if they play in same spot.

Their qualities are different, their role in team is different. Hence why I said Firmino cant be compared to other proper strikers like Morata, Kane or Aguero in only goals, because Klopp has different role for him. 

No shit Firmino would play instead of Morata if he was here. But that would mean we play with centre forward or false nine, not with striker because he isnt one. Much like Barca played with no striker for a while with Messi being CF (Villa was often deployed on left wing, but again he was left forward by the role and not typical winger or if they played two upfront, Villa was striker with Messi CF behind him)

Striker is someone who runs behind defences, looks for position and tries to score. CF is one who drops back to pick the ball and actively engages in team buildup. Last year Firmino was basicaly feeder for Salah by dropping deep and look for Salaha who ran by defence, picked the ball and finished off the attack. Sure there are anomalies where Firmino will be the one to finish and you will see proper strikers deliver the final ball to wingers or other teammates, but thats rare. 

Suarez, Kane, Cavani, Aguero,...will often find themselves as player to finish the attack. In Liverpool Firmino usualy sets up the attack, because of his role, thats why he has few goals. 

Dybala is the same, but he is more prolific, like Messi who isnt striker either, they are both forwards with Mandzukic and Suarez being strikers for their team. Or Griezmann who is CF behind Costa or Kalinic who are strikers. Meanwhile Pool plays without striker, but that doesnt mean Firmino is one just because he plays there.

Im not losing a lost cause lady, these are simple basics in football lol. But I understand some  call forward and striker same thing because its same position, however role is different.

[Vesper 28,786]

22 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

You will find those examples everywhere, thought quora will give u simple explanation but i guess not.

I think that you dont see difference between role and position? CF and striker all play in same spot, but their role is different.

Everyone will tell you Firmino and Dybala are not strikers haha even if they play in same spot.

Their qualities are different, their role in team is different. Hence why I said Firmino cant be compared to other proper strikers like Morata, Kane or Aguero in only goals, because Klopp has different role for him. 

No shit Firmino would play instead of Morata if he was here. But that would mean we play with centre forward or false nine, not with striker because he isnt one. Much like Barca played with no striker for a while with Messi being CF (Villa was often deployed on left wing, but again he was left forward by the role and not typical winger or if they played two upfront, Villa was striker with Messi CF behind him)

Striker is someone who runs behind defences, looks for position and tries to score. CF is one who drops back to pick the ball and actively engages in team buildup. Last year Firmino was basicaly feeder for Salah by dropping deep and look for Salaha who ran by defence, picked the ball and finished off the attack. Sure there are anomalies where Firmino will be the one to finish and you will see proper strikers deliver the final ball to wingers or other teammates, but thats rare. 

Suarez, Kane, Cavani, Aguero,...will often find themselves as player to finish the attack. In Liverpool Firmino usualy sets up the attack, because of his role, thats why he has few goals. 

Dybala is the same, but he is more prolific, like Messi who isnt striker either, they are both forwards with Mandzukic and Suarez being strikers for their team. Or Griezmann who is CF behind Costa or Kalinic who are strikers. Meanwhile Pool plays without striker, but that doesnt mean Firmino is one just because he plays there.

Im not losing a lost cause lady, these are simple basics in football lol. But I understand some  call forward and striker same thing because its same position, however role is different.

No one uses your division of terminology, there are millions of posts and discussions in just last year on football that use CF and striker interchangeably

when I speak of a secondary striker, I call it a secondary striker

Dybala plays that (or did) at Juve a lot of the time, BUT he certainly could play a straight up number nine role for us or anyone else as well

we don't play a secondary striker role, are you going to say that Dybala wouldn't start for us (in place of Giroud or Morata at striker) if we magically had him on the team?

I do not know why you picked now to start on this

I will not change, I doubt anyone else will

[Vesper 28,786]

29 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

In Liverpool Firmino usualy sets up the attack, because of his role, thats why he has few goals. 

Dybala is the same, but he is more prolific,

Firmino

27 goals, 17 assists

I wish Morata had 'few' goals like that

Dybala 26 goals, 7 assists (granted in 8 less games) so that works out to 30 goals, 8 assists in same amount of games, and Dybala did fuckall in the CL, 1 goal, zero assists in 8 games

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

No one uses your division of terminology, there are millions of posts and discussions in just last year on football that use CF and striker interchangeably

when I speak of a secondary striker, I call it a secondary striker

Dybala plays that (or did) at Juve a lot of the time, BUT he certainly could play a straight up number nine role for us or anyone else as well

we don't play a secondary striker role, are you going to say that Dybala wouldn't start for us (in place of Giroud or Morata at striker) if we magically had him on the team?

I do not know why you picked now to start on this

I will not change, I doubt anyone else will

Dybala would obviously play instead of Giroud but that doesnt make him striker either, he would be CF. 

What secondary striker? CF is similar to false nine. Striker is striker. Secondary or supporting striker is the player who supports main striker. Different roles. 

I dont know where you looked for the terminology, but literaly everyone will say the same, I didnt make it up. Except for people who dont know the difference or say it not to confuse others, there have always been CF and striker differences. Its all about the role, not position. 

Thats like saying Jorginho is same like Matic because both play DM..but their role in team is different. One breaks opponent attacks, the other dictates tempo. Essentialy they both play in same position with different role. And you wont check stats for Matic how much he creates or Jorginho how many tackles he makes and compare those two because they arent same type of player. Likewise you dont compare goals scored by Firmino with Kane or Aguero or Morata, because his role is different. 

Striker and Cf is same. One is there to position themselves and score, other is to be engaged in attack by either setting up others or score on their own. 

You clearly dont know the difference here.

If the coach was to tell you to play striker or centre forward, it would be a big difference how you would play. 

If you dont know the difference, it doesnt mean Im making this up or that there is no difference...

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

Firmino

27 goals, 17 assists

I wish Morata had 'few' goals like that

Dybala 26 goals, 7 assists (granted in 8 less games) so that works out to 30 goals, 8 assists in same amount of games, and Dybala did fuckall in the CL, 1 goal, zero assists in 8 games

I was talking for this season. And what does these goals tell you about their role in team?

Ronaldo wasnt striker and he still scored alot. Lamps and Yaya scored 20 goals once in season from midfield. 

I mean if you watch matches of Firmino, Dybala, Griezmann vs Kane, Morata, Lukaku, Suarez,...you would know their differences by now. 

[Vesper 28,786]

5 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Dybala would obviously play instead of Giroud but that doesnt make him striker either, he would be CF. 

What secondary striker? CF is similar to false nine. Striker is striker. Secondary or supporting striker is the player who supports main striker. Different roles. 

I dont know where you looked for the terminology, but literaly everyone will say the same, I didnt make it up. Except for people who dont know the difference or say it not to confuse others, there have always been CF and striker differences. Its all about the role, not position. 

Thats like saying Jorginho is same like Matic because both play DM..but their role in team is different. One breaks opponent attacks, the other dictates tempo. Essentialy they both play in same position with different role. And you wont check stats for Matic how much he creates or Jorginho how many tackles he makes and compare those two because they arent same type of player. Likewise you dont compare goals scored by Firmino with Kane or Aguero or Morata, because his role is different. 

Striker and Cf is same. One is there to position themselves and score, other is to be engaged in attack by either setting up others or score on their own. 

You clearly dont know the difference here.

If the coach was to tell you to play striker or centre forward, it would be a big difference how you would play. 

If you dont know the difference, it doesnt mean Im making this up or that there is no difference...

Just on this board there are tens of thousands of posts that violate your differentiating syntax. In common parlance striker and CF are used interchangeably. I understand FULLY that players play in different roles due to formational setup but we mean the person playing in the middle between the 2 wingers when we talk about Chels and our transfer targets.

[Vesper 28,786]

2 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I was talking for this season. And what does these goals tell you about their role in team?

Ronaldo wasnt striker and he still scored alot. Lamps and Yaya scored 20 goals once in season from midfield. 

I mean if you watch matches of Firmino, Dybala, Griezmann vs Kane, Morata, Lukaku, Suarez,...you would know their differences by now. 

Ronaldo DID play at pure striker sometimes. This enrire convo is well past being deep in the weeds. I am noy going to start specify each and every potential tactical postion that a player could possibly end up playing when discussing a target. I often do eleborate on players like de Jong (who plays all over MF and even CB) but it gets pedantic to go through every option in terms of positional, formational play if I or others simply mean to get a player who would play in the middle of our front three.

[El P. 1,354]

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

2 hours ago, El P. said:

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

This. Salah plays more advanced than Firmino despite Firmino being played centrally. Salah is more of a traditional striker in Liverpool’s system than Firmino is. Same goes with Benz and Ronaldo.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

38 minutes ago, Dazzy_Vance said:

This. Salah plays more advanced than Firmino despite Firmino being played centrally. Salah is more of a traditional striker in Liverpool’s system than Firmino is. Same goes with Benz and Ronaldo.

 

3 hours ago, El P. said:

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

Salah is a wide forward. Firmino a central striker (who was converted from a 10), Ronaldo was a wide forward at Real (now best to think of him as a 9 at Juventus I would say), Benzema a striker. Yes they may play more advanced the wide forwards as opposed to the 9s in those teams but when you consider their goal scoring records it's not hard to see why. But it doesn't/didn't make them strikers... Don't see what the fuss is about, when I'm comparing Morata or Giroud I'm comparing them to number 9s in other teams, Kane, Firmino, Lacazette, Aubamayang, Gabriel Jesus, Aguero etc, not Salah, Mane, Son, Sterling, Sane... in the past Hazard has been playing as a left winger and the most advanced player in a lot of our games but hardly makes him a number 9 either did it? Playing more advanced based on average positions or heat maps or whatever means fuck all. If a full backs got a high average position it doesn't make him a winger or a number 10 does it? Or if a CB has a higher average position it doesn't make him a CM??? 

And Morata gets the most chances in our team? Seriously? I think its fair to say there's a bigger spread than your making out. Alot of the play is through our wide players coming inside, trying to play through the middle rather than going outside and looking to cross early, where Morata would get more chances (or even Giroud look at that goal tonight for instance, these guys are good in the air, in the penalty box). Morata has much much more involvement coming to the ball, affecting the game than affecting the game by running in behind centre backs etc but a lot of that's due to the fact the team plays through Hazard and Willian, always short into feet looking for little combinations. I reckon Morata touches the ball the least amount of times for an outfield player in our team (probably least amount of times in the box on average out of a lot of the big teams too - again reckon it's the teams willingness to look for Hazard or Willian first), I'd be surprised If Kepa isn't close sometimes too.

Regarding chances/shots etc: Morata in the PL averages 2.6 shots per game, Hazard averages 2.7 shots per game, Willian averages 1.6 shots per game, Pedro averages 2 shots per game. Hazard has 7 goals, Morata 4, Pedro 4 and Willian 2. Now the averages doesn't mean a lot but shows that the spread is still varied across the team, tying to find stats for the amounts of shots each player has had because I reckon Hazard and Willian have had more than Morata this season in the PL. Also there's bound to be some info on clear cut chances as well but can't be arsed looking. Doubt there's too much of a difference again.

With Ronaldo mentioned just thought I'd say he is just too good. A freak. 400 + career goals at league level. Still not Messi either. Really got to appreciste these guys because we might see nobody better in our life times.