Tammy Abraham

[Jase 43,479]

I wish there's a bit context used when people use the 'top goalscorer in the team' thing to defend Abraham...

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Pizy said:

Not good enough to be the starting #9 at Chelsea or any club with title ambitions. He’s simply not a good enough all around footballer. 

As romantic as the idea of a homegrown English striker leading the line sounds to the fans, we won’t be near the big boys in Europe with a striker who can max out at about 12-15 goals in a season.

Don’t think he should be sold but also think we need a massive upgrade in his position or we’ll be fighting for 4th again next season.

This is not really Abraham's fault but part of the issue is also the #9 position is an unforgiving position, especially for a club like that wants to challenge for/win the major trophies. It will always require someone in their prime and/or clinical to be successful. Maybe Abraham will get there one day but he's not that #9 at the moment.

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

23 minutes ago, Jason said:

I wish there's a bit context used when people use the 'top goalscorer in the team' thing to defend Abraham...

What is the context? 

If he has Werner's minutes he would have 20+ goals? 

He also has a lot of assists and penalties won. 

This season he started just 3 or 4 times and didn't had a goal or assist. 

PL this season:

Werner 62 shots 5 goals 16 big chances missed 

Abraham 31 shots 6 goals 3 big chances missed 

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

What is the context? 

If he has Werner's minutes he would have 20+ goals? 

He also has a lot of assists and penalties won. 

This season he started just 3 or 4 times and didn't had a goal or assist. 

PL this season:

Werner 62 shots 5 goals 16 big chances missed 

Abraham 31 shots 6 goals 3 big chances missed 

Before I answer, are you defending Abraham or not defending Abraham?

And I don't get this...

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

This season he started just 3 or 4 times and didn't had a goal or assist. 

 

[Pizy 18,850]

For me his level would be somewhere like West Ham, Villa, Southampton. A club who would normally be in the 7-10th range every season where he’d be the main man up top playing every match. 

We need to find ourselves a striker who can instantly come in and be a 20 goal in the PL guy. It seems like every rival of ours is able to go out and find one of those except us. The one time in recent years we did was Costa and he was mental and forced his way out. We need our RvP/Aguero/Aubameyang/Kane/Suarez. Someone who you are extremely confident will put away any sniff of a chance they get.

 

 

[killer1257 3,282]

2 minutes ago, Pizy said:

For me his level would be somewhere like West Ham, Villa, Southampton. A club who would normally be in the 7-10th range every season where he’d be the main man up top playing every match. 

We need to find ourselves a striker who can instantly come in and be a 20 goal in the PL guy. It seems like every rival of ours is able to go out and find one of those except us. The one time in recent years we did was Costa and he was mental and forced his way out. We need our RvP/Aguero/Aubameyang/Kane/Suarez. Someone who you are extremely confident will put away any sniff of a chance they get.

 

 

If you want a 20 goal striker, you just can let have Tammy 3000 minutes of game time and he will score you 20 goals. He played last season a little bit over 2000 minutes and had 15 goals and 6 assists. Give him more minutes and he will score more

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

He's a good option to have as a back up and as a flat track bully. But if he insists on wanting to be the #1 here I think he's got another thing coming. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

If you want a 20 goal striker, you just can let have Tammy 3000 minutes of game time and he will score you 20 goals. He played last season a little bit over 2000 minutes and had 15 goals and 6 assists. Give him more minutes and he will score more

The one slight deceiving thing about that stat last season is that 7 of that 15 goals came in 3 games/236 minutes of playing time at the start of the season. He scored the remaining 8 goals in 1,986 minutes. The 15 goals aren't really spread out, if you like. And since people like to talk about big chances missed, Abraham missed 22 last season.

I remember Costa, for example, used to score majority of his goals in the first half of the season before going AWOL in the second and someone else has to pick up the baton for getting the goals. 

[killer1257 3,282]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

The one slight deceiving thing about that stat last season is that 7 of that 15 goals came in 3 games/236 minutes of playing time at the start of the season. He scored the remaining 8 goals in 1,986 minutes. The 15 goals aren't really spread out, if you like. And since people like to talk about big chances missed, Abraham missed 22 last season.

I remember Costa, for example, used to score majority of his goals in the first half of the season before going AWOL in the second and someone else has to pick up the baton for getting the goals. 

You also forget that he played many matches with an ankle injury during his period in which he did not score, so he was not at his best during that time either. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by killer1257

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

You also forget that he played many matches with an ankle injury during his time in which he did not score, so he was not at his best during that time either. 

Did he not only suffer that ankle problem at Leicester? If so, that was in the 25th league game and there were lots of games between his early 7 goals and that injury. 

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Before I answer, are you defending Abraham or not defending Abraham?

And I don't get this...

 

Not defending anyone. Just putting stats. 

I meant... Everytime Abraham started he had goal or assist except 3 or 4 games. 

[Pizy 18,850]

My big question is whether you would feel confident going up against the best in Europe or the PL with Tammy as our main striker. Is he good enough to consistently score against the biggest and best opposition? Key word consistently.

For me he isn’t. And I don’t think he’s scaring any top teams at all in the way Lewandowski/Kane/Aguero/Haaland do. He’s a penalty box only striker. When teams defend that area well Tammy is nearly useless. He’s never going to get the ball and dribble at players, he’s not going to sprint with the ball and terrify defenders. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve ever seen him have a shot from outside the box.

He could become an excellent Plan B striker in the way Giroud has been for us but I highly doubt he’d go for that at his age. And he probably backs himself as a top player. But he simply isn’t. 

[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Not defending anyone. Just putting stats. 

I meant... Everytime Abraham started he had goal or assist except 3 or 4 games. 

True but last season's stat doesn't exactly tell that story. 

My point with the context earlier is that 5 of Abraham's 12 goals this season have come against Barnsley and Luton, meaning he's scored only 7 goals against supposedly better opponents. Yes, goals are goals but it's just a little misleading to use it as something to brag about Abraham. Otherwise, we should brag about Jorginho being our joint-top scorer in the league as well.

Looking deeper into his appearances this season and I don't know if Lampard had doubts about his abilities or whatever, lots of Abraham's starts and goal contributions have come against the lesser sides - WBA, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Sheffield United, Newcastle (although he did also score against West Ham and Arsenal). That aside, he either did not start the other games or started but didn't contribute anything, at least, in terms of goals and assists.

Stats don't always tell the whole story of course but it's little things like that explain why people have doubts over him and as I said earlier, the #9 position is an unforgiving position, especially for a club like us and what we want to achieve. Also for the love of god, please don't bring Werner into this because (a) while he may have been used as the #9 for specific matches/opponents, he's not an out-and-out #9 striker and (b) there's enough discussions about his usefulness and what not already.

Plus with Tuchel, it's clear that he, like many managers out there I think, looks beyond than just the goals and assists. He clearly wants his #9 to do more than just scoring. It's also another reason why pure goal poachers in general don't work anymore because managers of the top clubs especially want their strikers to do more.

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

 

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Assuming that includes assists as well? I don't know about the others but 48 of Abraham's career goals have come in the Championship. It's one thing to score goals consistently in a lower division, it's another to do so in a top division or at the highest level. That's one reason why people have doubts over him.

And given people's obsession with just goals, I do wonder how someone like Drogba would survive in this day and age.