Radamel Falcao

[jmarlow 458]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:08, CHOULO19 said:

More than half of his matches last season. How about you try to argue with logic and facts instead of discrediting my opinion?

sorry i didn't realize we were having an argument, i must have missed that one.

[Jase 43,479]

At this rate, I don't think everyone of us is gonna be happy with the strikers that we are gonna get/have in the future.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:15, BluesMaster said:

At this rate, I don't think everyone of us is gonna be happy with the strikers that we are gonna get/have in the future.

I'd be happy with Sturridge getting more minutes.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:18, Spike Spiegel said:

I'd be happy with Sturridge getting more minutes.

Even he still has his doubters. It's only because we have 2 strikers now and Torres isn't exactly firing on all cylinders that elevated Sturridge into some god-like/fan-favourite status.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:21, BluesMaster said:

Even he still has his doubters. It's only because we have 2 strikers now and Torres isn't exactly firing on all cylinders that elevated Sturridge into some god-like/fan-favourite status.

I always liked Danny Boy. I've wanted to see him lead the line for a while now. I just hope when he starts getting regular minutes again, people don't play the 'greedy' card everytime time he fluffs his lines.

[Las7 951]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:24, Spike Spiegel said:

I always liked Danny Boy. I've wanted to see him lead the line for a while now. I just hope when he starts getting regular minutes again, people don't play the 'greedy' card everytime time he fluffs his lines.

I've always maintained that what we are doing to Sturridge is criminal, he was available first 7 games of this season and he played a total of 50 minutes. I don't know the exact reasons behind this staggering fact other than Torres needing to gel with the new players and gain confidence but even at MU while RvP has played a lot to get used to his new team mates they have continued to give far more minutes to Welbeck and Hernandez.

He was barely given a chance before we signed Torres when Anelka and Drogba were out of sorts, loaned out he showed his capability leading the line at Bolton but when he returned we marooned him on the right wing. I don't think he is any more selfish than the likes of Nani; Sinclair; Moses; Walcott stats disprove such a thing out of those players Sturridge played the most through balls last season from the right wing. His main problem is decision making because he relies on instinct - if he was trained to be a right winger and had worked on his weaker foot for crossing he would be able to have more options when playing on the right. Last year he was adapting but you could see it was natural for him to cut in and take a shot with his stronger foot.

If he isn't given any time until the winter transfer break I can see him handing in a transfer request even before his contract is up, he knows he needs to play and he knows he is good enough to be playing up top. I highly doubt Sturridge playing up top would have a worse return than Torres and Drogba especially now as we are starting to create more chances, some people overlook the fact that all these times they say Sturridge was selfish the only reason he had a chance to take a shot is due to his own abilities to beat a defender and get himself in a shooting position something Torres is failing to do as he gets closed down around the box and is unable to free himself.

  On 04/10/2012 at 04:57, Spike Spiegel said:

I don't think you understand what one dimensional means. He is one dimesional because nearly all of his goals come from either penalites of from inside the box. But that is not all, what else does Falcao provide except goals? He isn't a hard worker, he doesn't win many duels or dirbble that well, he doesn't shoot from distance, he doesn't take free kicks, he doesn't cross the ball, he doesn't pass all that well, he can't take corners, he isn't overly fast, he can't play out wide or in the hole, so please tell me what is so spectacular about Falcao besides his ability to find that net?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEFoRghwC9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEFoRghwC9w[/url[/media]

He had 6 penalties last season, although he is absolutely fantastic inside the box beating a defender - he is able to do it in a variety of ways. Some of his goals require shooting technique which is superior to your run of the mill poacher. He can half volley; volley; head it in; shoot from distance; chip the goal keeper from distance; show great technique in confined quarters; and on top of that his movement inside the box is absolutely what you'd expect from a guy wanting to score goal.

  Quote

Being a brilliant finisher is all well and good, but I want more than that. I want somebody like Del Piero or Franceso Totti. I won't complain about signing Falcao, but I think there is just a better fitting player out there. A lot of people just seem to be in a circle jerk about Falcao, and I think it's pretty naive to think that Falcao will just waltz right in score 30+ goals and win every trophy under the sun. There is more to football than just putting it in the back of the net.

I'd like for you to go further, who is this player you are talking about - who is the next Del Piero/Totti? Would he be available for Chelsea?

Football is a simple game, putting the ball in the back of the net is a simple task to ask from a player. The problem is that despite it being a very simple task - there is only a few players who are truly lethal at it. I don't know if Falcao will net 30 goals and we would win every trophy, the important thing to me is how many winners will Falcao score for CFC. He does the simple things correct and thus gives himself a better chance to finish off crosses, to score tap ins, to get himself in a shooting position inside the box or outside, he beats his markers inside the box. And he has done this in the Portuguese League and in La Liga. He has 40 appearances and 36 goals in Europe during his time in Madrid and Porto, Aguerro 38 appearances and 19 goals, while Forlan was 16 goals in 45 appearances. The Madrid squad back than was far better than the one currently.

  Quote

Just because they can finish does not make them a good footballer, look at Mario Jardel...I'm not saying that Falcao will end up like him, just htink about it.

Mario Jardel was a beast for Porto but he made the wrong career choices after his stint there, he never made the step up into the top leagues until it was too late. He is a legend in Portugal for what he did with Sporting and Porto during his time there, he could have easily made the step up after his Porto time to a bigger club but instead he decided to get a big pay check from Gala where he had injury problems but still managed 11 goals in 17 appearances for them in Europe.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:24, Spike Spiegel said:

I always liked Danny Boy. I've wanted to see him lead the line for a while now. I just hope when he starts getting regular minutes again, people don't play the 'greedy' card everytime time he fluffs his lines.

Absolutely agree. Sturridge was our second best player in the first half of the season last year. He scored some absolutely crucial goals, He then picked up a knock and had a poor month and then was played absurdly out of position under RDM. (Torres would have actually been a better fit in the midfield than Sturridge). He also scored some dynamic goals, ones that he created out of nothing which is something special. It bothers me that he gets so much flak. I mean, he was 21 and it was his first season and he was playing out of position and he led us in goals. I don't know why he was so disliked. (yeah, he is selfish, but I don't think that's always a negative for a striker).

[Spike 12,049]

  On 04/10/2012 at 11:39, Las7 said:

I've always maintained that what we are doing to Sturridge is criminal, he was available first 7 games of this season and he played a total of 50 minutes. I don't know the exact reasons behind this staggering fact other than Torres needing to gel with the new players and gain confidence but even at MU while RvP has played a lot to get used to his new team mates they have continued to give far more minutes to Welbeck and Hernandez.

He was barely given a chance before we signed Torres when Anelka and Drogba were out of sorts, loaned out he showed his capability leading the line at Bolton but when he returned we marooned him on the right wing. I don't think he is any more selfish than the likes of Nani; Sinclair; Moses; Walcott stats disprove such a thing out of those players Sturridge played the most through balls last season from the right wing. His main problem is decision making because he relies on instinct - if he was trained to be a right winger and had worked on his weaker foot for crossing he would be able to have more options when playing on the right. Last year he was adapting but you could see it was natural for him to cut in and take a shot with his stronger foot.

If he isn't given any time until the winter transfer break I can see him handing in a transfer request even before his contract is up, he knows he needs to play and he knows he is good enough to be playing up top. I highly doubt Sturridge playing up top would have a worse return than Torres and Drogba especially now as we are starting to create more chances, some people overlook the fact that all these times they say Sturridge was selfish the only reason he had a chance to take a shot is due to his own abilities to beat a defender and get himself in a shooting position something Torres is failing to do as he gets closed down around the box and is unable to free himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEFoRghwC9w[/url[/media]

He had 6 penalties last season, although he is absolutely fantastic inside the box beating a defender - he is able to do it in a variety of ways. Some of his goals require shooting technique which is superior to your run of the mill poacher. He can half volley; volley; head it in; shoot from distance; chip the goal keeper from distance; show great technique in confined quarters; and on top of that his movement inside the box is absolutely what you'd expect from a guy wanting to score goal.

I'd like for you to go further, who is this player you are talking about - who is the next Del Piero/Totti? Would he be available for Chelsea?

Football is a simple game, putting the ball in the back of the net is a simple task to ask from a player. The problem is that despite it being a very simple task - there is only a few players who are truly lethal at it. I don't know if Falcao will net 30 goals and we would win every trophy, the important thing to me is how many winners will Falcao score for CFC. He does the simple things correct and thus gives himself a better chance to finish off crosses, to score tap ins, to get himself in a shooting position inside the box or outside, he beats his markers inside the box. And he has done this in the Portuguese League and in La Liga. He has 40 appearances and 36 goals in Europe during his time in Madrid and Porto, Aguerro 38 appearances and 19 goals, while Forlan was 16 goals in 45 appearances. The Madrid squad back than was far better than the one currently.

Mario Jardel was a beast for Porto but he made the wrong career choices after his stint there, he never made the step up into the top leagues until it was too late. He is a legend in Portugal for what he did with Sporting and Porto during his time there, he could have easily made the step up after his Porto time to a bigger club but instead he decided to get a big pay check from Gala where he had injury problems but still managed 11 goals in 17 appearances for them in Europe.

I'm not arguing the fact that he has talent within the box and his finishing ability it's just all his other traits that I have problems with. If he could just dribble or pass better, I would be more supportive of signing him.

There aren't many in the world right now and those that do fit that Del Piero/Totti mould are very raw. Jovetic is the main contender for this style but his problems with injuries is a bit of a worry. However if he stays fit he will be a massive player. El Sharaawy is another, though he is only 19 and it seems a bit much to ask him to lead the line for the Champions of Europe. Giovinco is great but he just signed for Juventus. Giuseppe Rossi has been destroyed by injuries I don't think he will recover. Benzema is another that plays similar but I'm not too sure about him. I like him but I'm not sure...It seems Serie A and the Italians love their Secondary Strikers/Trequartistas. There are a few others like Rooney and Tevez that play in that style role too.

I don't want him to have a great work rate or anything ridiculous like that, I just want a striker that can support other players with passes and dribbles if necessary. While, Falcao just kind of stays up top and looks for goals. There isn't anything wrong with that, it just isn't my style.

That is a bit askewed isn't it? I mean Falacao up until this point has only scored and played in the Europa League while Forlan and Aguero were playing in the Champions League. Besides, I've never really liked Forlan's style and Aguero plays very differently to Falcao.

Read this about what style foward I like:

http://footballsgrea...d-strikers.html

On that site, Falcao would fit into the 'Striker' category. As opposed to Del Piero beind a 'Secondary Striker' and Drogba being a 'Centre Foward'.

And thanks for replying in a civilised manner (unlike some others...), I appreciate that. It's always good to have a debate like this.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 04/10/2012 at 11:57, TorontoChelsea said:

Absolutely agree. Sturridge was our second best player in the first half of the season last year. He scored some absolutely crucial goals, He then picked up a knock and had a poor month and then was played absurdly out of position under RDM. (Torres would have actually been a better fit in the midfield than Sturridge). He also scored some dynamic goals, ones that he created out of nothing which is something special. It bothers me that he gets so much flak. I mean, he was 21 and it was his first season and he was playing out of position and he led us in goals. I don't know why he was so disliked. (yeah, he is selfish, but I don't think that's always a negative for a striker).

I don't think he is that selfish though. Sure he will shoot instead of passing to a team mate in a better position but that is just his nature as a Foward. I don't think he chooses to shoot instead of pass, I believe he just doesn't see the pass. If you watch him during build up play however, he is quite a good passer and is quite willing to do give and gos, one-twos etc.

Remember that through ball to Torres? That is what he can do when he spots a pass!

[Reddish-Blue 2,429]

  On 04/10/2012 at 11:58, Spike Spiegel said:

I'm not arguing the fact that he has talent within the box and his finishing ability it's just all his other traits that I have problems with. If he could just dribble or pass better, I would be more supportive of signing him.

There aren't many in the world right now and those that do fit that Del Piero/Totti mould are very raw. Jovetic is the main contender for this style but his problems with injuries is a bit of a worry. However if he stays fit he will be a massive player. El Sharaawy is another, though he is only 19 and it seems a bit much to ask him to lead the line for the Champions of Europe. Giovinco is great but he just signed for Juventus. Giuseppe Rossi has been destroyed by injuries I don't think he will recover. Benzema is another that plays similar but I'm not too sure about him. I like him but I'm not sure...It seems Serie A and the Italians love their Secondary Strikers/Trequartistas. There are a few others like Rooney and Tevez that play in that style role too.

I don't want him to have a great work rate or anything ridiculous like that, I just want a striker that can support other players with passes and dribbles if necessary. While, Falcao just kind of stays up top and looks for goals. There isn't anything wrong with that, it just isn't my style.

That is a bit askewed isn't it? I mean Falacao up until this point has only scored and played in the Europa League while Forlan and Aguero were playing in the Champions League. Besides, I've never really liked Forlan's style and Aguero plays very differently to Falcao.

Read this about what style foward I like:

http://footballsgrea...d-strikers.html

On that site, Falcao would fit into the 'Striker' category. As opposed to Del Piero beind a 'Secondary Striker' and Drogba being a 'Centre Foward'.

And thanks for replying in a civilised manner (unlike some others...), I appreciate that. It's always good to have a debate like this.

I'm guessing you'd be pleased if Chelsea signed someone like Cavani or Jovetic, rather than Falcao.

[Spike 12,049]

  On 04/10/2012 at 12:07, Reddish-Blue said:

I'm guessing you'd be pleased if Chelsea signed someone like Cavani or Jovetic, rather than Falcao.

You guess right. Cavani is the dream, but I just don't see him leaving Napoli for some reason. Cavani's finishing may not be on par with Falcao's but his athleticism is unbelievable. But I'm not quite sold that Cavani would fit at Chelsea at the moment...

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

  On 04/10/2012 at 09:05, xPetrCechx said:

I could quit Madrid: Chelsea on alert as hotshot Falcao admits his future's uncertain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2212635/Chelsea-alert-Radamel-Falcao-admits-futures-uncertain.html

As far as I'm concerned, Atletico can't keep him and they will without a doubt sell him if they get the right offer. Its up to us whether we go for him. Can't see anyone other than Real Madrid getting him and even that is unlikely.

I just wonder what would happen to Torres in all this? I'm guessing he will be kept untill Summer (so we can have 2 strikers for the rest of the season) than sold. Lukaku will than be brought back as the replacement. Him and Sturridge would fight it out for the 2nd choice (At least, in an ideal world). However I think Sturridge would be getting fed up by now with the lack of playing time.

[termninja 5,290]

  On 04/10/2012 at 13:20, KonohasOrangeFlash said:

As far as I'm concerned, Atletico can't keep him and they will without a doubt sell him if they get the right offer. Its up to us whether we go for him. Can't see anyone other than Real Madrid getting him and even that is unlikely.

I just wonder what would happen to Torres in all this? I'm guessing he will be kept untill Summer (so we can have 2 strikers for the rest of the season) than sold. Lukaku will than be brought back as the replacement. Him and Sturridge would fight it out for the 2nd choice (At least, in an ideal world). However I think Sturridge would be getting fed up by now with the lack of playing time.

No way Real can get him, Altetico won't sell to them. It was the same case for Aguero, he wanted to join Madrid, but the club didn't allow him.

[zolayes 14,489]

  On 04/10/2012 at 13:20, KonohasOrangeFlash said:

As far as I'm concerned, Atletico can't keep him and they will without a doubt sell him if they get the right offer. Its up to us whether we go for him. Can't see anyone other than Real Madrid getting him and even that is unlikely.

I just wonder what would happen to Torres in all this? I'm guessing he will be kept untill Summer (so we can have 2 strikers for the rest of the season) than sold. Lukaku will than be brought back as the replacement. Him and Sturridge would fight it out for the 2nd choice (At least, in an ideal world). However I think Sturridge would be getting fed up by now with the lack of playing time.

most players don't get much playing time when they are injured ...JT is an exception

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

  On 04/10/2012 at 13:32, zolayes said:

most players don't get much playing time when they are injured ...JT is an exception

I'm talking about since RDM took over last season. Has barely got a look in.

[zolayes 14,489]

  On 04/10/2012 at 13:36, KonohasOrangeFlash said:

I'm talking about since RDM took over last season. Has barely got a look in.

last season we had Drogba.and Torres and Lukaku.. this season danny has been injured. It is obvious RDM intended to use him.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

  On 04/10/2012 at 12:12, Spike Spiegel said:

You guess right. Cavani is the dream, but I just don't see him leaving Napoli for some reason. Cavani's finishing may not be on par with Falcao's but his athleticism is unbelievable. But I'm not quite sold that Cavani would fit at Chelsea at the moment...

I don't think any striker would fit in with the way we're playing right now. We're just not striker-friendly. Cavani does a lot of things very well so he contributes in many different ways . He is an incredible defender for a forward and he holds the ball up brilliantly. Not sure if buying any striker for 40M+ is a good idea right now, but I can't think of a (realistic) striker I'd rather have.

[Leif 6,006]

Who's more realistic for us to get between Falcao and Cavani? = Falcao.

Who's more likely to score more goals between the two when put in the same position? = Falcao.

Who's more likely to be a hard-worker and help with build-up play etc. and not just finishing? = Cavani.

It's just down to preference really.

Also, regarding their builds etc. -

I find it quite amazing that while Falcao stands around 4 or 5 inches shorter than Cavani, he is much better when it comes to heading the ball into the back of the net. He's more stocky though and weighs a bit more, which seems to make him.. well.. not the quickest of forwards.

Cavani is surprisingly quick given his build.

I think I want... Cavani, at the moment.

I do prefer Falcao in general simply because I love poachers, but I have little doubt that Cavani would fit this team more.

However;

Cavani, realistically, probably isn't going to leave Napoli any time soon unless a bid of around £50million is launched for him.

Falcao could be leaving depending on how Atletico Madrid perform this season for any figure between £20 - £35mill.

Something to be mention though when comparing these 2 players; Look at how they play for their nations.

Cavani is usually quite average for Uruguay, while Falcao gets a goal every game or 2 for Colombia and generally plays well with 'lesser' players around him.

Ugh. Football is complicated.