Radamel Falcao

[themightyblue 443]

  On 22/12/2012 at 20:37, CHOULO19 said:

It seems we have different ideas what a poacher is. Any way, Falcao is a better finisher than the strikers you mentioned, but that is all. All of them have much better link-up play and technical ability in terms of passing and crossing and all create space better than Radamel.

Debatable, but we'll have to agree to disagree here

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 22/12/2012 at 18:01, CHOULO19 said:

My post was was an answer to another post on specific points, you kind of took it out of context.

First, yes Falcao rarely creates his own goals. How often have you seen him receive the ball with his back to the goal and manage to turn and score? Or cut out the ball from the defender and go on to score? Falcao is a poacher, he thrives on his teammates' cervice, on crosses and through ball. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just the way he plays.

Second, my reference to Drogba at Camp Nou was in reply to the claim that Falcao is a big game player like Didier. My point was that Radamel still has a long way to go to be as much a big game player as Drogba was because what Drogba offered to the team in big matches was much more than just goals. In big matches Drogba raised his performance in attack, leadership, defense and much more that he even played at LB at Camp Nou.

Third, I said that any decent striker would have won us the CWC because the post I replied to was stating that Falcao would have won is the CWC.

1. Do you watch Falcao? Seriously, he creates a lot of his goals. When footballers say "create his own chances", they mean the striker didnt just scored from an open net, there are a lot of ways to create chances. The turning aspect you quoted is just one way of opening space. Falcao creates a lot of his own goals, he does it really often. Barcelona, Chelsea, Bilbao, etc.

2. Your reference of Drogba at Camp Nou only reveals his spirit to win hos most desired UCL. Dont try to make his will of playing LB/CB as a metaphor os his workrate or teamplay, it was all part of the circunstances. We all know he was a bit lazy at unimportant or routine games. You are using one specific game to try to convince us that he was a better team player than Falcao? Radamel helps in the defense more than you might imagine.

3. A decent striker would have won us CWC, but what about the next 3-4 UCLs, EPLs, FA Cups, etc?

Choulo19, you are an excellent poster, but your opinion about Falcao is way out of line. There is no need to transform him in a God (like some), however, there is no need to underate it in every aspect.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 22/12/2012 at 21:17, Rmpr said:

1. Do you watch Falcao? Seriously, he creates a lot of his goals. When footballers say "create his own chances", they mean the striker didnt just scored from an open net, there are a lot of ways to create chances. The turning aspect you quoted is just one way of opening space. Falcao creates a lot of his own goals, he does it really often. Barcelona, Chelsea, Bilbao, etc.

2. Your reference of Drogba at Camp Nou only reveals his spirit to win hos most desired UCL. Dont try to make his will of playing LB/CB as a metaphor os his workrate or teamplay, it was all part of the circunstances. We all know he was a bit lazy at unimportant or routine games. You are using one specific game to try to convince us that he was a better team player than Falcao? Radamel helps in the defense more than you might imagine.

3. A decent striker would have won us CWC, but what about the next 3-4 UCLs, EPLs, FA Cups, etc?

Choulo19, you are an excellent poster, but your opinion about Falcao is way out of line. There is no need to transform him in a God (like some), however, there is no need to underate it in every aspect.

I'm sorry but I have discussed these points over and over again. I feel I made my points here and have the right to my opinion. I'm done with this thread.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 22/12/2012 at 21:17, Rmpr said:

1. Do you watch Falcao? Seriously, he creates a lot of his goals. When footballers say "create his own chances", they mean the striker didnt just scored from an open net, there are a lot of ways to create chances. The turning aspect you quoted is just one way of opening space. Falcao creates a lot of his own goals, he does it really often. Barcelona, Chelsea, Bilbao, etc.

I very much disagree with this point after watching him play for Porto, Colombia and Atletico. Most of his goals have come from great movement and getting on the end of a great cross from someone like Hulk, or a great pass in behind the defence.

He scores once in a while from outside the box like against us or Bilbao in the EL, but it's not frequent enough to be described as "creating his own chances".

In fact i do not get the whole creating chances thing, he's a striker - there is nothing wrong with him being dependent on service, vast majority of strikers are like that.

Yesterday against Celta Vigo he did nothing because they rarely got the ball to him.

[laura90 556]

I understand everyone who claims we need prolific top scorer to finish in the top four and save our season. That is the only reason I can cope with spending 50 millions on Falcao instead on central midfielder capable to retain the freaking ball. But just because it looks like necessarity doesn't mean it's the best choice. If we spend 50 million on Falcao and another 50 million on central midfielder I will be happy. If we spend 50 million on Falcao and nothing on central midfielder I will be sad. Why?

Because we fall out from CL group stages missing the Modric type more than Falcao type. We scored two against Juventus and couldn't win because of the midfield. We scored 3 against Shatjor and conceded two because of the midfield. Had we scored two and conceded one we would be in the top 16.

No, we can't buy another Drogba. But we can buy all around striker able to defend worse and keep the ball little worse and have better goal scoring ratio than Drogba in non-finals. The quality of all around strikers is that their confidence lies on their capabilities not only goals, and they are better leaders because of that, which gives them confidence to shine even when team plays shit or they are in goal drought. Besides, our trio is not known for their ability to keep possesion, we need all the help in that department.

People constantly speak we need top top scorer. What makes you think that Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Moses wouldn't be able to make one from some less established striker with potential? Why we have that trio if we need specialist, the greatest one to score on regular bases? I know it sounds perfect, unplayable on paper, but how often it certificate in reality? Trio were brought to revive Torres, and against mediocre teams they did, but Torres has issues. What makes you think they wouldn't do much more for less established striker who could become prolific striker with us?

Have you heard for Jackson Martinez or El Shaarawy last season? Don't you think there will be someone new next season? Well with quality central midfielder who would provide us more possesion therefore enable our attacking trio to play their best game, without running after ball all the time, I firmly believe we could make our own prolific goal scorer whose task is only to score.

But I get it, we are running out of time. But I won't congratulate our board for being able to afford another 50 millions to save our season once again. I'm not against Falcao, I just want more money spent on superb central midfielder and less or evenly on striker.

[Wfisheruk 22]

We hav to get a striker now sturridge is having medical at Liverpool 2moz it's on sky sports news

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 22/12/2012 at 21:26, Sheva. said:

I very much disagree with this point after watching him play for Porto, Colombia and Atletico. Most of his goals have come from great movement and getting on the end of a great cross from someone like Hulk, or a great pass in behind the defence.

He scores once in a while from outside the box like against us or Bilbao in the EL, but it's not frequent enough to be described as "creating his own chances".

In fact i do not get the whole creating chances thing, he's a striker - there is nothing wrong with him being dependent on service, vast majority of strikers are like that.

Yesterday against Celta Vigo he did nothing because they rarely got the ball to him.

I agree a striker can depend on service, but it is important that a player can resolve games on his own, even if the playmakers arent in a good day.

What I dont agree is that he depends on his teammates more than anything or that he is only a finisher. He is not amazing in every trait, but he is not shit is any of them. He can handle himself in any team (but Barcelona). Any striker do more goals from service (crosses, passes, etc), but Falcao is one of the top CFs that most score out of his own (longshots, marked shots, opening up of spaces, etc). I doubt you havent seen a lot of this goals at Atletico and Colombia. Also, I think he does more than some strikers people want: Lewandoski, Higuain, etc.

Like I have said many times, Cavani has more upsides. However, he will do the job and we wont bother to complain.

[Zola kinda blue 89]

It would be madness to sign Falcao and I cant see Chelsea doing it.

All our eggs in one basket again, a midfield that needs a top up?

I just cant see it.

We lost a serious amount of cash going out of the CL.

So we will recall Lukaku, buy Pjanic for the money we get for him and maybe recall another player or get a loaner.

Rumour is Chelsea are reluctanant to spend much especially with Rafa in charge and we spent heavily in ther summer.

Plus Rafa has torres scoring 6 goals in 5

Would love Lewandoski or Cavani, both have more to their game than Falcao.

Cavani would cost almost as much him and wont be sold this window anyway

[Leif 6,006]

£40m+ on Falcao...

£0m on Llorente, around £15-£20m on another striker, and the remaining £20-£25m used on the midfield and defence... hmm...

I know which I'd rather.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:04, Rmpr said:

I agree a striker can depend on service, but it is important that a player can resolve games on his own, even if the playmakers arent in a good day.

What I dont agree is that he depends on his teammates more than anything or that he is only a finisher. He is not amazing in every trait, but he is not shit is any of them. He can handle himself in any team (but Barcelona). Any striker do more goals from service (crosses, passes, etc), but Falcao is one of the top CFs that most score out of his own (longshots, marked shots, opening up of spaces, etc). I doubt you havent seen a lot of this goals at Atletico and Colombia. Also, I think he does more than some strikers people want: Lewandoski, Higuain, etc.

Like I have said many times, Cavani has more upsides. However, he will do the job and we wont bother to complain.

We can all say Drogba "resolves games on his own" but most of those goals come from good work from others. Let's just look at last season:

Goal against Spurs = fantastic pass by Lamps. Goal against Bayern = good delivery by Mata. Goal against Napoli = great cross by Ramires. Goals against Valencia = good work by Mata. Goal against Newcastle = Great ball by Mata. (off topic, Mata is really awesome)

Anyway Falcao is also like this, they're one or two moments where he can just hit a beauty (happens will every good striker also, Torres even scored a great goal against Newcastle), but the majority of time it depends on the delivery.

I don't think he does anything more than any good striker, except you can say he's a better finisher than most.

[Pizy 18,552]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:20, Leif said:

£40m+ on Falcao...

£0m on Llorente, around £15-£20m on another striker, and the remaining £20-£25m used on the midfield and defence... hmm...

I know which I'd rather.

Falcao?

[calculatingInfinity 1,467]

I certainly don't want a striker that can't even get onto bilbaos team this season.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:31, calculatingInfinity said:

I certainly don't want a striker that can't even get onto bilbaos team this season.

Lol. He scored 29 goals for them last season but has been used sparingly this term because of they know he'll be off soon.

This is why they got Adruiz, and he's been good for them also tbf.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:21, Sheva. said:

We can all say Drogba "resolves games on his own" but most of those goals come from good work from others. Let's just look at last season:

Goal against Spurs = fantastic pass by Lamps. Goal against Bayern = good delivery by Mata. Goal against Napoli = great cross by Ramires. Goals against Valencia = good work by Mata. Goal against Newcastle = Great ball by Mata. (off topic, Mata is really awesome)

Anyway Falcao is also like this, they're one or two moments where he can just hit a beauty (happens will every good striker also, Torres even scored a great goal against Newcastle), but the majority of time it depends on the delivery.

I don't think he does anything more than any good striker, except you can say he's a better finisher than most.

See, that is where you dont get it...

Drogba's goal in FA Cup Final, he received a great pass, but without his litle dance and amazing finesse shot, we woundt have score. This is a created goal. In the play, there was a pass and involvement of other players, but he was ultimately the reason for that goal. Analysing by this perspective, you will be able to find a lot of that type of goals from Falcao (it is not only outside shots or turning shots).

There is more than his direct impact. He is more than fearful and it will open space for Mazacar and Moses. As good as a team is, the pshycologic impact on the opposition is very important (look at Barça). Also, he opens a lot of space for his colegues.

So, all of the above is just to try to prove why a cheap (but good) striker isnt enough.

For me, we should buy Falcao + DM (loan) in January and really sort all of our other problems next season (Real Manager, Ball Control CM, Top CB, Great LB and Backup ST).

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:17, Zola kinda blue said:

Rumour is Chelsea are reluctanant to spend much especially with Rafa in charge and we spent heavily in ther summer.

See, I thought the rumour was that we were after Fellaini, Falcao and Walcott.

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:20, Leif said:

£40m+ on Falcao...

£0m on Llorente, around £15-£20m on another striker, and the remaining £20-£25m used on the midfield and defence... hmm...

I know which I'd rather.

How about we buy 4 strikers for £5 million each? Doesn't matter who they are or whether they have a long-term future with the club.

I'd rather have someone who is at the top of their game, available this January, fits the way our team plays and will play in the future and is admired by the guy that we're trying to hire to be our manager in June.

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:40, Rmpr said:

See, that is where you dont get it...

Drogba's goal in FA Cup Final, he received a great pass, but without his litle dance and amazing finesse shot, we woundt have score. This is a created goal. In the play, there was a pass and involvement of other players, but he was ultimately the reason for that goal. Analysing by this perspective, you will be able to find a lot of that type of goals from Falcao (it is not only outside shots or turning shots).

There is more than his direct impact. He is more than fearful and it will open space for Mazacar and Moses. As good as a team is, the pshycologic impact on the opposition is very important (look at Barça). Also, he opens a lot of space for his colegues.

So, all of the above is just to try to prove why a cheap (but good) striker isnt enough.

For me, we should buy Falcao + DM (loan) in January and really sort all of our other problems next season (Ball Control CM, Top CB, Great LB and Backup ST).

I've seen other strikers do all what you mentioned. Which is why as Choulo said, Falcao is not 25m better than any other good striker.

Like i said already, what i can say is, he's a better finisher than most. In that game he scored 5 goals, another striker would have gotten 3 at most.

And for the last line, FFP restrictions is not going to allow that. I don't see how we're going to buy a 50m striker, a top CB who will cost what 20-25m? good CM also around that price and then a great LB for 15-20m. Also add all the 80k-120k wages, and 200k for Falcao.

Before anyone says "you don't know what the clubs finances are" of course i don't, but you can just look at the profit we made, losses we've made from CL and know we will not go on a huge spending spree.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 22/12/2012 at 22:51, Sheva. said:

I've seen other strikers do all what you mentioned. Which is why as Choulo said, Falcao is not 25m better than any other good striker.

Like i said already, what i can say is, he's a better finisher than most. In that game he scored 5 goals, another striker would have gotten 3 at most.

And for the last line, FFP restrictions is not going to allow that. I don't see how we're going to buy a 50m striker, a top CB who will cost what 20-25m? good CM also around that price and then a great LB for 15-20m. Also add all the 80k-120k wages, and 200k for Falcao.

Before anyone says "you don't know what the clubs finances are" of course i don't, but you can just look at the profit we made, losses we've made from CL and know we will not go on a huge spending spree.

You know I dont use stupid and rude arguments, this is just not me, so no need for your concerns.

I agree 47m is a lot, but where have you thought we can buy a great striker for 25m? Name me one...(RVP does not count, as it was 27m or nothing, if he was in a normal contract, it would be 35m+)

We payed 24.5m for Drogba 8 years ago, it was such a high amount for any player at that time that the media criticized us for paying that much for an unproved Ligue 1 striker. It was no big difference than today's Falcao...

[Sheva. 5,373]

  On 22/12/2012 at 23:06, Rmpr said:

You know I dont use stupid and rude arguments, this is just not me, so no need for your concerns.

I agree 47m is a lot, but where have you thought we can buy a great striker for 25m? Name me one...(RVP does not count, as it was 27m or nothing, if he was in a normal contract, it would be 35m+)

We payed 24.5m for Drogba 8 years ago, it was such a high amount for any player at that time that the media criticized us for paying that much for an unproved Ligue 1 striker. It was no big difference than today's Falcao...

If that old Drogba was playing for Marseille during this period i think he will cost around 25-30m, not 50m.

50m is just way over the top, not many players have cost that or more, ever. Liverpool got Suarez for around 25m or whatever, and that's a very good deal.

Before we got Torres for 50m, i don't remember that many players linked with moves for that fee, seems we started the trend