Controversial football opinions

[Nike 373]

I believe Pep can control what could happen on the pitch and therefore prepare a plan B in case of injuries or drop in form, but losing Vilanova is a life's tragedy, and emotionally, its impossible to recover in a week or a month, so I think the most important factor in that match wasnt that the players werent good, its the manager who wasnt good, as he declared later.BM fans understood that, as we are all human.

If they match up this year, who do you think would win?

When healthy, munich to me is by far the best team in europe. However, like City, they are rarely healthy all the time...

[Heisenberg 1,824]

If they match up this year, who do you think would win?

When healthy, munich to me is by far the best team in europe. However, like City, they are rarely healthy all the time...

As Wenger would say, could Bayern win the game ? I dont know, I dont comment on speculation.On a serious note, if both are in great shape, it will be way more closer, and Bayern will notch the victory if they capitalize; because at the Bernabeau last year they didnt.

[DCS1984 28]

I'm not the kind of person to talk about the impossible, and since changing the past and blending teams isnt part of this reality its pointless to go in that direction, I also can tell you that I dont belive Mourinho could have had the sucess Guardiola had with Barcelona, especially in his first year at the club, but it wont add much to the discussion as we cant know.However, I do agree that the knowlege of Mourinho about the Portuguese league made him an exceptionnal manager in Portugal, way before becoming the superstar at Chelsea, and Guardiola would probably find it difficult to manage a Portuguese team like Leiria or Porto, since his football knowledge is more developped when it comes to spanish teams and spanish football, but its a logical guess, nothing more.In this moment the amount of titles Pep has is near perfection, having won 2 out of 5 Champions League campaigns, 4 out of 5 championships, won 3 out of 5 cups, and a hell lot of supercups, Mourinho, excluding his time at Benfica and Leiria, and only counting from Porto, won very much the same amount of titles after 6 years of coaching, however, with a CL less, and with a style of football less entretaining then the one Guardiola proposed, but I guess this last sentence is relative to the viewer, so thats personal opinion of course.

Hi Heisenberg

If you note my post above yours I agreed that Mourinho would have struggled to be accepted in 2008 at Barcelona. I don't believe he would have struggled to get results but I doubt he would have been there longer than a season and a half at most.

You compare Mourinho' s time at Porto vs Guardiola's time at Barcelona but there's one difference between the sides. Guardiola' s team in all games with the exception of perhaps the European giants away are always the strong favourites and were European Champions in 2007. Guardiola had Real Madrid and Valencia/A.Madrid somewhere in the distance as a comparable domestic rival while Mourinho had Sporting Lisbon, Benfica and Boavista, Braga to lesser extent. Even more important is the fact Mourinho' s Porto may have been among the favourites to win the UEFA cup but it's doubtful that they were the favourites. While Guardiola' s Barcelona's team was one of the favourites every year he was in charge due to their squad and history. Mourinho' s Porto team in 2003-4 wouldn't have been anyone's favourites and wouldn't be able to play Guardiola' s style even if he wanted to in the Champions League due to his inferior players.

Imagine if Di Matteo had set up like for like in the Nou Camp in 2012, Chelsea would have lost badly. Guardiola has so far never been in that situation and worked his way to a higher level. Guardiola has had teams were the brief is to win every trophy possible because it possible for his team's to do that. When Mourinho was given the Liera job his brief wasn't to break into the top 3 of Portuguese football but he did. He would be expected to win the Portuguese league and cup and do well in UEFA cup but would he be expected to win the Champions League? I highly doubt it but he did. For a team from the Portuguese league this a monumental achievement that far surpasses Guardiola' s champions league wins in my opinion.

Is Guardiola a great manager, he more than likely is. I have a great deal of respect for him, his conduct after the Chelsea game in 2012 was a credit to him as he could moaned and complained but accepted defeat with grace, something that Mourinho often fails to do. Until Guardiola goes to a club where he is not the favourites to win every trophy then this mark will always be against him to make people doubt his complete abilities as a manager.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Hi Heisenberg

If you note my post above yours I agreed that Mourinho would have struggled to be accepted in 2008 at Barcelona. I don't believe he would have struggled to get results but I doubt he would have been there longer than a season and a half at most.

You compare Mourinho' s time at Porto vs Guardiola's time at Barcelona but there's one difference between the sides. Guardiola' s team in all games with the exception of perhaps the European giants away are always the strong favourites and were European Champions in 2007. Guardiola had Real Madrid and Valencia/A.Madrid somewhere in the distance as a comparable domestic rival while Mourinho had Sporting Lisbon, Benfica and Boavista, Braga to lesser extent. Even more important is the fact Mourinho' s Porto may have been among the favourites to win the UEFA cup but it's doubtful that they were the favourites. While Guardiola' s Barcelona's team was one of the favourites every year he was in charge due to their squad and history. Mourinho' s Porto team in 2003-4 wouldn't have been anyone's favourites and wouldn't be able to play Guardiola' s style even if he wanted to in the Champions League due to his inferior players.

Imagine if Di Matteo had set up like for like in the Nou Camp in 2012, Chelsea would have lost badly. Guardiola has so far never been in that situation and worked his way to a higher level. Guardiola has had teams were the brief is to win every trophy possible because it possible for his team's to do that. When Mourinho was given the Liera job his brief wasn't to break into the top 3 of Portuguese football but he did. He would be expected to win the Portuguese league and cup and do well in UEFA cup but would he be expected to win the Champions League? I highly doubt it but he did. For a team from the Portuguese league this a monumental achievement that far surpasses Guardiola' s champions league wins in my opinion.

Is Guardiola a great manager, he more than likely is. I have a great deal of respect for him, his conduct after the Chelsea game in 2012 was a credit to him as he could moaned and complained but accepted defeat with grace, something that Mourinho often fails to do. Until Guardiola goes to a club where he is not the favourites to win every trophy then this mark will always be against him to make people doubt his complete abilities as a manager.

" Guardiola' s team in all games with the exception of perhaps the European giants away are always the strong favourites"

I dont agree, he made Barcelona looks the favourite because of the dominace they produced with his football, its a gained-status, not a given one, and even before him, Barcelona is Barcelona, they'll always be the favourite against smaller teams, its against the biggest of teams that we have noticed how much Barca looked invincible under Pep, and that's what should reflect the quality of the group and the manager.I definetly agree on the point of Mourinho is a galvanisator and an amazing coach for groups of players that never won titles, and no one will repeat what he did at Porto, but again, why should we blast Pep if he only had offers from Barcelona A as they watched his capacities with Barca B ? If he had the chance to go to another team, maybe he'd have done great elsewhere, we cannot know.

" Imagine if Di Matteo had set up like for like in the Nou Camp in 2012, Chelsea would have lost badly "

Why should I even imagine this ? We have to be rational in our way of thinking and by saying that it implies that Pep is a dogmatic managers when approching games, if he was our manager in 2012 with that team he'd have played in a defensive way anyway ! Good managers make good sides, there is no such thing of a side making a manager, and Pep made Barcelona, not the contrary.He got rid of players at the right time where we didnt.Di Matteo, with a little bit of luck, made of a small Chelsea team a big Chelsea team, and that's an amazing achievement.

[iseah100 5,612]

Mourinho won with Porto, an aging Inter squad, and created the Chelsea team that won the CL. Now he's building us another top team. Guardiola inherited Barca and just picked the players he wanted, and inherited an amazing academy. Now he's at Bayern after inheriting a squad that won the treble and bought their rivals 2 key players.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Mourinho won with Porto, an aging Inter squad, and created the Chelsea team that won the CL. Now he's building us another top team. Guardiola inherited Barca and just picked the players he wanted, and inherited an amazing academy. Now he's at Bayern after inheriting a squad that won the treble and bought their rivals 2 key players.

Just picked, simple, normalization isnt my cup of tea, and I dont accept easily such things, it isnt easy to just pick.Mourinho had a great Madrid side too, but didnt win trophies, football defies logic.

[Nike 373]

Hi Heisenberg

If you note my post above yours I agreed that Mourinho would have struggled to be accepted in 2008 at Barcelona. I don't believe he would have struggled to get results but I doubt he would have been there longer than a season and a half at most.

You compare Mourinho' s time at Porto vs Guardiola's time at Barcelona but there's one difference between the sides. Guardiola' s team in all games with the exception of perhaps the European giants away are always the strong favourites and were European Champions in 2007. Guardiola had Real Madrid and Valencia/A.Madrid somewhere in the distance as a comparable domestic rival while Mourinho had Sporting Lisbon, Benfica and Boavista, Braga to lesser extent. Even more important is the fact Mourinho' s Porto may have been among the favourites to win the UEFA cup but it's doubtful that they were the favourites. While Guardiola' s Barcelona's team was one of the favourites every year he was in charge due to their squad and history. Mourinho' s Porto team in 2003-4 wouldn't have been anyone's favourites and wouldn't be able to play Guardiola' s style even if he wanted to in the Champions League due to his inferior players.

Imagine if Di Matteo had set up like for like in the Nou Camp in 2012, Chelsea would have lost badly. Guardiola has so far never been in that situation and worked his way to a higher level. Guardiola has had teams were the brief is to win every trophy possible because it possible for his team's to do that. When Mourinho was given the Liera job his brief wasn't to break into the top 3 of Portuguese football but he did. He would be expected to win the Portuguese league and cup and do well in UEFA cup but would he be expected to win the Champions League? I highly doubt it but he did. For a team from the Portuguese league this a monumental achievement that far surpasses Guardiola' s champions league wins in my opinion.

Is Guardiola a great manager, he more than likely is. I have a great deal of respect for him, his conduct after the Chelsea game in 2012 was a credit to him as he could moaned and complained but accepted defeat with grace, something that Mourinho often fails to do. Until Guardiola goes to a club where he is not the favourites to win every trophy then this mark will always be against him to make people doubt his complete abilities as a manager.

Regarding the porto team that won the champs league.

One thing people forget is that that year was the season that monaco made it to the championship as well and the same year that spanish team was accussed of doping against milan and came back from a 1-4 first game...

Champions league back than and what it is now are not the same significance.

TBH, neither pep or jose would go into a project team. Munich was the best team in europe when pep signed on, but chelsea had the best young talent in the epl and was probably top 2 squad in england.. HUGE difference is that Pep would never park the bus or play counter attack football. Pep has too much pride in his barcelona roots to do so.. Jose on the other hand, wants to win now in whatever way.

However, I still have my doubts on Jose staying in a club long term...

[Nike 373]

Mourinho won with Porto, an aging Inter squad, and created the Chelsea team that won the CL. Now he's building us another top team. Guardiola inherited Barca and just picked the players he wanted, and inherited an amazing academy. Now he's at Bayern after inheriting a squad that won the treble and bought their rivals 2 key players.

Actually, pep sold ronaldinho, deco, and a few other key players

Barcelona, the last season of rikkjard was in shambles and pep made them the best team in europe and Messi into the best player in the world...

At munich, they still won the domestic double and was a game from the champs league final... Pep has been unlucky with injuries last season and this season...

[DCS1984 28]

" Guardiola' s team in all games with the exception of perhaps the European giants away are always the strong favourites"

I dont agree, he made Barcelona looks the favourite because of the dominace they produced with his football, its a gained-status, not a given one, and even before him, Barcelona is Barcelona, they'll always be the favourite against smaller teams, its against the biggest of teams that we have noticed how much Barca looked invincible under Pep, and that's what should reflect the quality of the group and the manager.I definetly agree on the point of Mourinho is a galvanisator and an amazing coach for groups of players that never won titles, and no one will repeat what he did at Porto, but again, why should we blast Pep if he only had offers from Barcelona A as they watched his capacities with Barca B ? If he had the chance to go to another team, maybe he'd have done great elsewhere, we cannot know.

" Imagine if Di Matteo had set up like for like in the Nou Camp in 2012, Chelsea would have lost badly "

Why should I even imagine this ? We have to be rational in our way of thinking and by saying that it implies that Pep is a dogmatic managers when approching games, if he was our manager in 2012 with that team he'd have played in a defensive way anyway ! Good managers make good sides, there is no such thing of a side making a manager, and Pep made Barcelona, not the contrary.He got rid of players at the right time where we didnt.Di Matteo, with a little bit of luck, made of a small Chelsea team a big Chelsea team, and that's an amazing achievement.

The point I'm making is Barcelona whether they're under Guardiola, Rykaard, Martino st al are always considered one of the top teams in the world and are the overwhelming favourites in the vast majority of their fixtures.

FC Porto under Mourinho, AVB or even if Guardiola took over would never be considered overwhelming favourites in the majority of their ECL games.

There is a vast difference between what is achievable realistically with Porto and Bayern/ Barca and to compare them as equal as you did in your first post was highly unfair on what Mourinho had achieved at Porto under much, much hard circumstances.

Would he have played like RDM in the Nou Camp? We don't know as he has never been in that situation before. He has came across this type of performance twice at critical stages against Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012 (you could add Madrid to a smaller extent last season) and failed to be able to change games.

[iseah100 5,612]

Actually, pep sold ronaldinho, deco, and a few other key players

Barcelona, the last season of rikkjard was in shambles and pep made them the best team in europe and Messi into the best player in the world...

At munich, they still won the domestic double and was a game from the champs league final... Pep has been unlucky with injuries last season and this season...

Unlucky? No. Bayern got hammered because he let his pride in the way and tried to play his stupid tiki taka bs.

It's like this, Pep had everything handed to him as far as his managerial career goes, Mou had to pay his dues. Winning the CL with Porto is more impressive than winning with Barca.

[Nike 373]

Just picked, simple, normalization isnt my cup of tea, and I dont accept easily such things, it isnt easy to just pick.Mourinho had a great Madrid side too, but didnt win trophies, football defies logic.

Real Madrid will always have a great squad on paper....

That is something they can never complain about...

Jose's second team could of probably made the knockout stages of the champs league...

Lopez

arbeloa-varane-nacho-coentrao

Khedira-Sahin

Callejon-Kaka-Jese

Higuain

[DCS1984 28]

Regarding the porto team that won the champs league.

One thing people forget is that that year was the season that monaco made it to the championship as well and the same year that spanish team was accussed of doping against milan and came back from a 1-4 first game...

Champions league back than and what it is now are not the same significance.

TBH, neither pep or jose would go into a project team. Munich was the best team in europe when pep signed on, but chelsea had the best young talent in the epl and was probably top 2 squad in england.. HUGE difference is that Pep would never park the bus or play counter attack football. Pep has too much pride in his barcelona roots to do so.. Jose on the other hand, wants to win now in whatever way.

However, I still have my doubts on Jose staying in a club long term...

Have to agree with much of this with the exception of the Champions League not being worth as much then as it is now. The Champions League is the 2nd biggest trophy you can win after the world cup never mind if you win against Monaco or a drugged up Deportivo team

Such a shame Ranieri went mental in Monaco or we would have (hopefully) beaten Mourinho' s Porto and who knows what would have happened....

[Heisenberg 1,824]

The point I'm making is Barcelona whether they're under Guardiola, Rykaard, Martino st al are always considered one of the top teams in the world and are the overwhelming favourites in the vast majority of their fixtures.

FC Porto under Mourinho, AVB or even if Guardiola took over would never be considered overwhelming favourites in the majority of their ECL games.

There is a vast difference between what is achievable realistically with Porto and Bayern and Barca and to compare them as equal as you did in your first post was highly unfair on what Mourinho had achieved at Porto under much, much hard circumstances.

Would he have played like RDM in the Nou Camp? We don't know as he has never been in that situation before. He has came across this type of performance twice at critical stages against Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012 (you could add Madrid to a smaller extent last season) and failed to be able to change games.

I got your point, that's why I strictly wanted to explain how he made Barcelona favourites against big opposition as an exceptionnal achievement, and didnt wanted to talk about it on a general note.

My first opinion was that Pep is having a better career than Mourinho, it seems its is not the subject anymore, we are more going in a Pep vs Mou direction, that will ultimately ends up with two sides, pro-José and pro-Guardiola, but that wasnt my intentions in first place.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Pele is not even in the TOP 5 best ever players.

Frank Lampard is the best English player in the last two decades.

[DCS1984 28]

I got your point, that's why I strictly wanted to explain how he made Barcelona favourites against big opposition as an exceptionnal achievement, and didnt wanted to talk about it on a general note.

My first opinion was that Pep is having a better career than Mourinho, it seems its is not the subject anymore, we are more going in a Pep vs Mou direction, that will ultimately ends up with two sides, pro-José and pro-Guardiola, but that wasnt my intentions in first place.

Yeah, It does seem to have become a Pep V Mourinho debate but it gets people talking and that's a good thing (I think!)

On Guardiola' s 2008/12 team it was one best footballing teams I have ever seen and a lot of credit goes to him. I think the team he had will be remembered for a long, long time and he deserves every plaudid he got then. The performances against in 2009 and 2011 made Utd look like amateurs and was exceptional to watch.

[dUMB 189]

I'm not the kind of person to talk about the impossible, and since changing the past and blending teams isnt part of this reality its pointless to go in that direction, I also can tell you that I dont belive Mourinho could have had the sucess Guardiola had with Barcelona, especially in his first year at the club, but it wont add much to the discussion as we cant know.However, I do agree that the knowlege of Mourinho about the Portuguese league made him an exceptionnal manager in Portugal, way before becoming the superstar at Chelsea, and Guardiola would probably find it difficult to manage a Portuguese team like Leiria or Porto, since his football knowledge is more developped when it comes to spanish teams and spanish football, but its a logical guess, nothing more.In this moment the amount of titles Pep has is near perfection, having won 2 out of 5 Champions League campaigns, 4 out of 5 championships, won 3 out of 5 cups, and a hell lot of supercups, Mourinho, excluding his time at Benfica and Leiria, and only counting from Porto, won very much the same amount of titles after 6 years of coaching, however, with a CL less, and with a style of football less entretaining then the one Guardiola proposed, but I guess this last sentence is relative to the viewer, so thats personal opinion of course.

As for the controversial part, I dont find any kind of controversy when speaking about legendary managers and comparing titles and paths, even if its disscussed in a forum where Mourinho is the main man and Guardiola systematically reduced to a poessession-maniac overated manager, even if none of us have been coached by him.

You and Ibrahimovic think the same way about Pep, not a cunt, a coward is more suitable for the spaniard, meh ! Again same argument, based solely on the fact that Guardiola didnt manage small teams and he is a one way style of football so overrated.Mourinho is a master tactician, and so is Guardiola, dont ever think all those victories in the clasicos were due to luck, and we often forget his amazing work with Barcelona B, that resulted in some talents for the A team, buts thats the hidden part.His first year in Germany is a sucess, and the records he is creating with bayern domestically are remarkable.The black mark will obviously be the defeat against Madrid, that came because of a lack of tactical preparation for Guardiola ( A week after losing Tito Vilanova, an important factor ignored by the majority because its please to say that Pep was "humiliated" )

For the bottom part, ok, its just my opinion, and I cant be objective because I really dont like pep.

For the bolded part, I dont understand. You're counting from Porto then saying with a CL less? wtf?

And to be honest. I dont count 2008/09 CL at all. With (name of the referee I shall not name) on that goddamn evening, (06.05.2009) any 'cunt' would have won CL.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

For the bottom part, ok, its just my opinion, and I cant be objective because I really dont like pep.

For the bolded part, I dont understand. You're counting from Porto then saying with a CL less? wtf?

And to be honest. I dont count 2008/09 CL at all. With (name of the referee I shall not name) on that goddamn evening, (06.05.2009) any 'cunt' would have won CL.

With Porto he won a Champions League, but failed to win us the trophy in three occasions, and with Inter, I counted six years for Mourinho and six years for Guardiola because Guardiola managed six years.

You can be honest, you are still not right.

[dUMB 189]

With Porto he won a Champions League, but failed to win us the trophy in three occasions, and with Inter, I counted six years for Mourinho and six years for Guardiola because Guardiola managed six years.

You can be honest, you are still not right.

So, according to you, after this year they'll be even... and in few more, who knows... but, I already know which one will be remembered as the best manager ever... The Special One.