Cesc Fàbregas

[Barbara 15,149]

Thing is I don't think Matic has the quality to deal with it on his own, hence the need for Ramires. We got the equaliser before half-time but Mourinho still brought Ramires on and the second half was INFINITELY better than the first.

You're right, Matic's passing was off but then it was off quite a bit last season as well and people didn't criticise him then. He plays risky passes, far more than most DMs, and I don't see that changing any time soon. His biggest problem right now is that he's being asked to cover waaaaaay too much ground, not an 85% pass rate.

oh I don't mean he needs to do it by himself and I'm a big defender of us using a 4-3-3 with Ramires... I said so after the match. I think our second half formation should be our default formation for all matches, with small adjustments coming for tougher opposition when Mourinho has a different plan.

btw many teams in the world deal with having only one holding midfield in their system... we should have to find a way and maybe the answer is getting faster CBs rather than trying to turn our midfield more defensive...

I think Matic isn't playing even 80% the level he was last season... maybe it's just an impression though.

[Styles 9,790]

Why not the other way around? In terms of individual mistakes, Matic has made more defensive mistakes than Fabregas.

Completely disagree. Matic has made quite a lot of individual mistakes in his pressing that were just really poor judgement on his part and have absolutely nothing to do with anyone he's playing with. Check my analysis of the first two goals we conceded against Everton: http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/18782-analyzing-the-3-goals-conceded-at-goodison/

On Saturday again, in the first 25 minutes, on two occasions he very weird pressing decisions very similar to his mistake in Everton's second goal. I'm not trying to single Matic out as others made a lot of mistakes in pressing as well, I'm just saying that mistakes like that have absolutely nothing to do with who you're playing along side, it's just poor judgement.

That's the kind of player Matic is: he presses relentlessly and occasionally he willbe too ambitious and get caught out. But aren't the tactics supposed to be to press as a team? How can we criticise one of the players built for the style of play and who actually does what it is asked of him? Why is the space he vacates not filled? Why don't the defenders push up and squeeze the opposition?

Way too early to come to any such a conclusions. The new roles for the central midfielders still need some work to build chemistry and a lot of practice before we scrap them off as a failure, imo.

It's certainly not a failure because we're winning but I don't see some of these problems going away.

[bababoom 4,478]

Neville was talking more about Cesc' positioning rather than his physical capabilities. The longer he plays in the pivot the more he'll understand where to position himself. Although I kind of prefer him in a 4-3-3, he has the freedom to go forward and link up with Hazard and Costa but could also just as easily sit back and dictate the tempo knowing he has Ramires and Matic beside him.

[zolayes 14,489]

So amusing . We have arguably the most creative player in the PL certainly the most creative we have

had for a very long time and people are nit picking over his defensive qualities.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

The pressing also has a bigger problem. The team bar the CBs defend in a proactive manner whereas the CBs don't. If a DM like Matic does go about pressing higher the CB should be aware and be willing to run forward to close the space left by the DM if he does get bypassed easily.

Both Gary and John only move forward when the striker drags them forward like against Gomis but they don't seem to want to be proactive in their defending. I don't think we can change this though because you can't leave JT as the lone guy trying to cover for Cahill and John isn't quick enough or agile enough to run forward and close space near the half-way line.

I think Jose knew this and that's why we were after Benatia, he's the best in the world at this imo along with Kompany. He reads the play in front of him very well and can intercept and stop the play by breaking past his CB partner and stopping it right in the midfield.

Unless we buy all new CBs this won't change, which is fine, it's not a big problem. Nothing switching to a 4-3-3 with an anchorman can't fix. It's only really a problem when the opposition are very very good at building from the back and our front 4 are ineffective at their pressing.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

That's the kind of player Matic is: he presses relentlessly and occasionally he willbe too ambitious and get caught out. But aren't the tactics supposed to be to press as a team? How can we criticise one of the players built for the style of play and who actually does what it is asked of him? Why is the space he vacates not filled? Why don't the defenders push up and squeeze the opposition?

Simply because some of the mistakes he's done have absolutely nothing to do with all that. Again I'll use Everton's second goal as example because I have the images for that, but he's made that mistake type on a number of occasions already this season:

Choosing to make the run that Matic did in the image above rather than cover the area where Naismith (who he was originally tracking) is in and in which McGeady eventually runs into, has absolutely nothing to do with tactics or anyone. It's just a poor decision. If he has a "pressing instinct" then the run should have been towards the ball where he would have been able to fill the gap and stop the goal, not away from it.

I can forgive mistakes from being too aggressive in pressing, but more often so far this season, the mistakes from Matic has been that he has been too eager to cover and hence being too late to press. Again, I'm sounding too harsh on Matic, but that's only because we're analyzing his mistakes alone. On a lot of occasions his pressing has been excellent, but it's the mistakes we remember.

But I get what you are trying to say. We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? ). Now THAT, for me, is an issue much more likely to persist in the future than pressing mistakes from Cesc and Matic.

It's certainly not a failure because we're winning but I don't see some of these problems going away.

I genuinely believe it is something that we can solve, or at least improve, on the training ground. I guess time will tell.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

So amusing . We have arguably the most creative player in the PL certainly the most creative we have

had for a very long time and people are nit picking over his defensive qualities.

Yeah. I doubt Jose failed to notice Cesc's strengths and weaknesses before he bought him. He clearly didn't buy him to be a defensive midfielder. Some people just need to accept that playing Cesc in the DM's position wouldn't transform him into one. He would defend to the best of his ability, but his main job is to add creativity from midfield to our side, which he's been doing excellently. Personally, I don't like Cesc being played in the pivot--I think he's wasted there and he'd be better in a more advanced, free role in 4-3-3--but if Jose keeps playing him there, then he's clearly satisfied with how he performs there.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The pressing also has a bigger problem. The team bar the CBs defend in a proactive manner whereas the CBs don't. If a DM like Matic does go about pressing higher the CB should be aware and be willing to run forward to close the space left by the DM if he does get bypassed easily.

Both Gary and John only move forward when the striker drags them forward like against Gomis but they don't seem to want to be proactive in their defending. I don't think we can change this though because you can't leave JT as the lone guy trying to cover for Cahill and John isn't quick enough or agile enough to run forward and close space near the half-way line.

I think Jose knew this and that's why we were after Benatia, he's the best in the world at this imo along with Kompany. He reads the play in front of him very well and can intercept and stop the play by breaking past his CB partner and stopping it right in the midfield.

Unless we buy all new CBs this won't change, which is fine, it's not a big problem. Nothing switching to a 4-3-3 with an anchorman can't fix. It's only really a problem when the opposition are very very good at building from the back and our front 4 are ineffective at their pressing.

We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? ).

Just call me the tactical hipster

Seriously though, I don't imagine we'll be playing in the same manner against the likes of City. Even against Everton we made changes. Though those still look like they need a bit more work...

[Dion 2,476]

Fabregas is playing the role of the deep-lying playmaker. He's not weak defensively for that role. His defensive stats are about on par with Modric's so far in this season - they both have 1 tackle in average per game and Modric has 0.4 more interceptions per game, but Fabregas has 0.3 clearances over Modric, so it evens out. The only thing Fabregas has struggled with is avoiding being dribbled. He has been dribbled 2.3 times per game, in that aspect he should improve.

And we didn't even find the correct balance or chemistry in the midfield. Those stats can only improve over time.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Fabregas is playing the role of the deep-lying playmaker. He's not weak defensively for that role. His defensive stats are about on par with Modric's so far in this season - they both have 1 tackle in average per game and Modric has 0.4 more interceptions per game, but Fabregas has 0.3 clearances over Modric, so it evens out. The only thing Fabregas has struggled with is avoiding being dribbled. He has been dribbled 2.3 times per game, in that aspect he should improve.

And we didn't even find the correct balance or chemistry in the midfield. Those stats can only improve over time.

That's nothing. Compare him to Pirlo who is much less dynamic and weaker defensively, yet Juve can still afford to give him cover and freedom for what he offers in attack.

[Dion 2,476]

That's nothing. Compare him to Pirlo who is much less dynamic and weaker defensively, yet Juve can still afford to give him cover and freedom for what he offers in attack.

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game (Serie A) and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster. If Fabregas can reach Pirlo level of defensive performances he's going to be crazy good.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster.

Pirlo is a liability defensively. Maybe the stats don't reflect it, but I've watched him for years at Milan. Gattuso always had to cover his ass.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster.

Did not expect them to be that high! But stats can be deceptive. Trust me, there are sometime when Pirlo just goes: "Fuck it. Let them have this attack, I'll give a shit in the next one!"

[Dion 2,476]

Pirlo is a liability defensively. Maybe the stats don't reflect it, but I've watched him for years at Milan. Gattuso always had to cover his ass.

Problem with slow defenders is that they rely too much on positioning. Once someone misplaces a pass when they're transitioning to an attacking stance or once they're caught in a fast counter they can't do much. That's precisely why Matic should avoid misplacing passes, our pivot and cbs are slow and Matic is usually the midfielder who is deeper, if he loses possession it's like there are only ours cbs and fullbacks to defend and huge spaces for them to cover with limited pace.

[DYC. 7,542]

Hmm from talk of him not being good enough and selling him in the summer to playing a key part in the team set up. Quite a turnaround on Ramires after a few games.

It's only been 4 games. Way too early to draw conclusions. The game plan has changed. It's going to take time for everything to be in place. If there are still issues in November, then you start fixing problems (this being Mourinho's job). The team is winning and have won every match deservedly.

And on the matter of pressing, there's nothing worse than disjointed pressing. So when that happens, mistakes will be made. Learning how to press effectively doesn't happen overnight, it will take time to perfect it.

[Barbara 15,149]

Problem with slow defenders is that they rely too much on positioning. Once someone misplaces a pass when they're transitioning to an attacking stance or once they're caught in a fast counter they can't do much. That's precisely why Matic should avoid misplacing passes, our pivot and cbs are slow and Matic is usually the midfielder who is deeper, if he loses possession it's like there are only ours cbs and fullbacks to defend and huge spaces for them to cover with limited pace.

and Matic himself isn't that fast either. Actually he can be quite slow at times...

[Caeruleus 1,148]

[Dion 2,476]

and Matic himself isn't that fast either. Actually he can be quite slow at times...

Well, I did say the pivot was slow, as in both of them