🇪🇸 Cesc Fàbregas

[Dion 2,476]

That's nothing. Compare him to Pirlo who is much less dynamic and weaker defensively, yet Juve can still afford to give him cover and freedom for what he offers in attack.

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game (Serie A) and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster. If Fabregas can reach Pirlo level of defensive performances he's going to be crazy good.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster.

Pirlo is a liability defensively. Maybe the stats don't reflect it, but I've watched him for years at Milan. Gattuso always had to cover his ass.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Despite being slow as shit, Pirlo can still give you a good defensive shift based on positioning alone. It's no wonder he's the epitome of the regista / deep-lying playmaker. His defensive stats are crazy for someone that slow. Go check them out.

Last season he got 1.4 tackles and 1.3 interceptions per game and it was a bad season defensively by his own standards. The guy is a monster.

Did not expect them to be that high! But stats can be deceptive. Trust me, there are sometime when Pirlo just goes: "Fuck it. Let them have this attack, I'll give a shit in the next one!"

[Dion 2,476]

Pirlo is a liability defensively. Maybe the stats don't reflect it, but I've watched him for years at Milan. Gattuso always had to cover his ass.

Problem with slow defenders is that they rely too much on positioning. Once someone misplaces a pass when they're transitioning to an attacking stance or once they're caught in a fast counter they can't do much. That's precisely why Matic should avoid misplacing passes, our pivot and cbs are slow and Matic is usually the midfielder who is deeper, if he loses possession it's like there are only ours cbs and fullbacks to defend and huge spaces for them to cover with limited pace.

[DYC. 7,542]

Hmm from talk of him not being good enough and selling him in the summer to playing a key part in the team set up. Quite a turnaround on Ramires after a few games.

It's only been 4 games. Way too early to draw conclusions. The game plan has changed. It's going to take time for everything to be in place. If there are still issues in November, then you start fixing problems (this being Mourinho's job). The team is winning and have won every match deservedly.

And on the matter of pressing, there's nothing worse than disjointed pressing. So when that happens, mistakes will be made. Learning how to press effectively doesn't happen overnight, it will take time to perfect it.

[Barbara 15,149]

Problem with slow defenders is that they rely too much on positioning. Once someone misplaces a pass when they're transitioning to an attacking stance or once they're caught in a fast counter they can't do much. That's precisely why Matic should avoid misplacing passes, our pivot and cbs are slow and Matic is usually the midfielder who is deeper, if he loses possession it's like there are only ours cbs and fullbacks to defend and huge spaces for them to cover with limited pace.

and Matic himself isn't that fast either. Actually he can be quite slow at times...

[Caeruleus 1,148]

[Dion 2,476]

and Matic himself isn't that fast either. Actually he can be quite slow at times...

Well, I did say the pivot was slow, as in both of them

[Barbara 15,149]

Well, I did say the pivot was slow, as in both of them

my selective reading only caught the CBs, lol.

I miss you, fiote

[Dion 2,476]

my selective reading only caught the CBs, lol.

I miss you, fiote

But I've been around, dear. It's just I'm more active in match days or immediately after the games. There's not much to do afterwards to be honest, just pointless rumours or people from the media trying to find silly stories about our players - Diego Costa "punched" someone.. should he have seen a red? Fabregas, defensive liability? Etc.

Besides, I've been busy this weekend. I'll make a post about it in the pub so we don't derail this thread. And then Choulo won't have to move the posts (that even Jason was okay with) for derailment

[DH1988 1,348]

Neville, head and shoulders above every other pundit.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Anyone notice his celebration after the second goal?

[WhatsTheMatic? 28]

Anyone notice his celebration after the second goal?

Yep. Becoming more Chels every game!

[Styles 9,790]

Simply because some of the mistakes he's done have absolutely nothing to do with all that. Again I'll use Everton's second goal as example because I have the images for that, but he's made that mistake type on a number of occasions already this season:

Choosing to make the run that Matic did in the image above rather than cover the area where Naismith (who he was originally tracking) is in and in which McGeady eventually runs into, has absolutely nothing to do with tactics or anyone. It's just a poor decision. If he has a "pressing instinct" then the run should have been towards the ball where he would have been able to fill the gap and stop the goal, not away from it.

I can forgive mistakes from being too aggressive in pressing, but more often so far this season, the mistakes from Matic has been that he has been too eager to cover and hence being too late to press. Again, I'm sounding too harsh on Matic, but that's only because we're analyzing his mistakes alone. On a lot of occasions his pressing has been excellent, but it's the mistakes we remember.

I'm not trying to absolve Matic of any wrong-doing because he certainly has his faults/limitations as a player.

The way I see the mistake you've highlighted there is: Ramires is pressing the ball so Matic tries to cut out McGeady's seemingly only available passing option. That obviously isn't the smartest idea considering Azpilicueta and Terry have that passing lane covered. Ivanovic also makes the same mistake that Matic does - he is distracted by Lukaku's run despite Cahill being best placed to deal with a through-ball - and that allows Naismith to ghost in and score easily. It's a bad mistake on Matic's part but the initial press is beaten easily, he has gambled* and the players behind him have made mistakes too, that was a collective breakdown and not down to Matic on his own.

*Pressing isn't just about pressing the ball, it also means blocking any passing lanes and it's high risk, high reward. Matic is one of the few players in the team that is consistent at doing that. If the people alongside him and behind him were on the same wavelength we wouldn't be so exposed all the time.

But I get what you are trying to say. We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? ). Now THAT, for me, is an issue much more likely to persist in the future than pressing mistakes from Cesc and Matic.

I genuinely believe it is something that we can solve, or at least improve, on the training ground. I guess time will tell.

Fair enough, and Azpi at CB doesn't sound that crazy.

Here's the Neville analysis by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjP9KVWA91U

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Great pundits and good analysis.

Fabregas cannot play in the pivot. He is best suited to a 4-3-3 in this team. So

Much more balance and with a 3 man midfield and brings the best out of matic cesc AND Ramires.

I predict that 4-2-3-1 will become and secondary line up for us by halfway through the season

[Daniel1980 1,425]

On Fabregas in the double pivot and 4-3-3:
When he played for Spain NT a week ago, he looked much more comfortable playing in a three-man midfield, and he and Busquets totally bossed the midfield despite Koke looking shaky. I'm actually surprised with how well he's been doing in the double pivot for us. There's a lot of difference tactically between playing a CM in a 4-3-3 that he's accustomed to and playing a CM in the double pivot. To get the best out of him, he should be given a less restricted, more attacking role.

Yep. Becoming more Chels every game!

Only natural. The same thing happened to Ashley.

[bababoom 4,478]

You have to say Neville is a fantastic pundit, so much better than the MOTD lot.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I still think Fabregas will be fine for quite a few games in the pivot - what we really need to do however is sort out our pressing and positional game in centre midfield. What Fabregas is trying to do (as Neville said) is hunt down the ball - but you can't do that in the manner Fabregas is doing when he is playing in the pivot, especially against the 4-3-3 midfield Swansea played.

I still think Fabregas is fine in the pivot for some games (not the bigger games though, but I've said that from the start anyway), honestly do, he just has to tweak his positioning and when to engage in pressing. The effort is definitely there, he just needs to be smart with it. Fabregas is an intelligent player so I'm fairly sure he'll grasp it over the course of the season (last clip in the Gary Neville analysis where he swooped up the ball and laid it off to Matic before JTs own goal is a prime example - excellent defensive positioning).

IMO he can be that complete midfielder for us, competent defensively and great going forward.

[Shakez 755]

Fantastic analysis from Neville, a 4-2-3-1 atm currently is a no go in big games. But we need to find a solution for it, dunno if Fabrégas can get the discipline but that's something Mourinho should drill into him. Otherwise when are we ever going to play Oscar in the big games unless we put him on the wings (not his best position). For this reason i would like to see how we fare with the following line-up against high pressing opposition, with Willian as our most defensive winger (and a pretty capable presser), seeïng that Schürrle lacks some key defensive attributes atm and is a bad presser. I don't think we have seen that line-up yet this season:

Costa

Hazard - Oscar - Willian

Matic - Fabregas

Azpi - Terry - Cahill - Ivanovic

Courtois

[Barbara 15,149]

I think it is a great analysis by Neville and he's normally very fair. I just feel like that kind of mistakes were done by many players during the first 30 minutes of the match. I know he doesn't have time to cover everyone, but it seems like he singled out Cesc - although the pivot is a critical area for pressing.

He should improve, definitely, and I think he will, but others around him should and hopefully will too. The pressing and the midfield in general in the first 30 minutes was just a hot mess. and I can't for the life of me blame swans first goal on Cesc. He should have done a better job, but others made worse mistakes in that play. It wasn't his player who tackled Matic, it wasn't his player who's received the ball and although he slowly came back after tackling in the box, Swans passed the ball to a player ahead of him, he's trying to hunt him, but it wasn't his player imo. I don't know, he's one of the last I'd actually hold guilty for that goal. Matic shouldn't, under any circumstance, especially when he's as slow like that, hold the ball so long when pressed so closely by another player. Pass to someone to prevent exactly this kind of situation.