Bench quality

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The more games we play, the more it gets clear that our bench simply isnt on the quality level that should be. Im not talking about quantity; we have plenty of players (and had even more, but sold them), but quality. Our bench consists of players like Mikel, Torres, Ba, Lampard/Ramires, Luiz, Cole, Kalas, Schurrle, Salah, MVG*. At first look, we actualy have realy nice, lenghty bench that should do the job which is replacing starting eleven in case of injury, tiredness or tactical change. However, the more you look in games, the more its visible that our bench is simply terrible. Not just that we will have to add couple of additions in starting eleven, such as new striker, LB and potentialy CM, but if we will look to win domestic and international titles in next seasons, our bench will have to get upgrade. A big one. The major mistake was made when we bought the likes of Schurrle or Salah who will not improve on bench, and that means big inconsistency in their game when given chance to play. In theory, Salah and Schurrle are fine backups, but my opinion is that neither of the two (Salah specificaly) isnt going to do the job in case Hazard, Oscar or Willian injures for larger period of time. Looking at Bayern, Real,...they have much more quality on their bench. Sure, with time, we will reorganize this team properly, but I feel signing the likes of Salah will cause more problems than solutions. At first Schurrle cost 20mio, and secondly Salah to me looks like another Moses/Marin, I might be wrong though. And what is the point of buying Salah when he only played 3 games (less than 60min combined) since his arrival? Dont say he has to adjust, he was brought to give rest for Hazard and Willian this season, he has failed to make any kind of impact in this time. Objectively, he has shown lots of pace, but thats it.

Summer will be busy one I think, because with only adding striker (with option that 2-3 will leave), adding LB (with Cole, Luiz, potentialy leaving), will solve our 1st team problems, but not rotation issues. Partly, the blame goes on Mou for not rotating earlier in the season, but on the other hand Mikel, Torres/Ba, simply arent replacements you want in bigger or smaller games. Bench players should add something extra, freshness, goals, control,...while our bench offers that once or twice in whole year (like Schurrle who scored 3 goals, but then had another average).

Bench will never be (and should never be) on level of first team. Thats why Mata, KDB left. But players like Mikel or Torres shouldnt do anything there either. They offer nothing realy and more importantly they have NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. Not individualy, not with team.

So, besides going after main first team players, we should target decent, inform, not too expensive, allround, back up ''utility'' players ala Candreva, Griezmann, Cuadrado, Gueye, Sissoko, Aurier, etc. Also, we should try to bring someone from academy.

Because there will be games in next seasons where having proper backup for Hazard, Matic etc will be pivotal.

[didierforever 7,349]

How is sissoko better than schurrle? How is anyone from our academt better than schurrle right now. How do those players improve us quality-wise. (And this is without questioning, how schurrle is not good enough). Salah has not played enough minutes to be judged plus I think salah was not brought in for rotation but simply to give us cover for injuries.

No point in talking about strikers as it is very possible that none of the 3 might be here. New striker + lukaku is anyways an uograde to the 3 we have.

How are cole and luiz not good backups. Massively disagree. Next season we will have shaw and luiz and or zouma as backups.

As for cms, if we go into the next season with the options of matic, rambo, mvg, new cm. I don't see any problem with it.

Hence, I don't see how it will be a massively busy summer. Neither do I see the point of a busy summer.

We ll be set for the next season with buying a new st, shaw and a new cm while selling off fringe players/dead woods/unneeded players like torres, ba, etoo, marin, moses, kakuta, mikel, lamps, cole and maybe luiz.

[Barbara 15,149]

How is sissoko better than schurrle? How is anyone from our academt better than schurrle right now. How do those players improve us quality-wise. (And this is without questioning, how schurrle is not good enough). Salah has not played enough minutes to be judged plus I think salah was not brought in for rotation but simply to give us cover for injuries.

No point in talking about strikers as it is very possible that none of the 3 might be here. New striker + lukaku is anyways an uograde to the 3 we have.

How are cole and luiz not good backups. Massively disagree. Next season we will have shaw and luiz and or zouma as backups.

As for cms, if we go into the next season with the options of matic, rambo, mvg, new cm. I don't see any problem with it.

Hence, I don't see how it will be a massively busy summer. Neither do I see the point of a busy summer.

We ll be set for the next season with buying a new st, shaw and a new cm while selling off fringe players/dead woods/unneeded players like torres, ba, etoo, marin, moses, kakuta, mikel, lamps, cole and maybe luiz.

not to mention how the other teams are any better than us... they aren't.

City have depth in strikers and AM, Arsenal only have midfielders and Liverpool have no depth at all. That's not even talking about teams such as Spurs and United.

I really don't get some people. We are never enough. Our manager isn't daring enough, our AMs not creative enough, our squad not deep enough.

I for one think one between Schurrle, Willian and Oscar make for enough depth in the AM position as we can always move to 4-3-3 and play effectively.

We have decent defense backup with Luiz and Cole. We're a bit thinner than I'd like in the midfield where we don't have the kind of player I'd like, but even then... before Matic was here and were right there near the top with Mikel, Ramires and Lampard. It's not ideal in some positions, and we have a chronicle striker problem, but our squad isn't as thin as suggested.

Mourinho complaining about being thin for UCL is simply because he's downsizing our chances in yet another competition. While I don't think we have big chances in UCL we have enough to get passed by Gala on Tuesday and until the next round comes around I'm positive Cole and Luiz will be back. If we don't pass by Gala isn't because of our depth, but because 1) we didn't capitalize in the first leg 2) we probably won't have capitalized in the second either.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The more games we play, the more it gets clear that our bench simply isnt on the quality level that should be. Im not talking about quantity; we have plenty of players (and had even more, but sold them), but quality. Our bench consists of players like Mikel, Torres, Ba, Lampard/Ramires, Luiz, Cole, Kalas, Schurrle, Salah, MVG*. At first look, we actualy have realy nice, lenghty bench that should do the job which is replacing starting eleven in case of injury, tiredness or tactical change. However, the more you look in games, the more its visible that our bench is simply terrible. Not just that we will have to add couple of additions in starting eleven, such as new striker, LB and potentialy CM, but if we will look to win domestic and international titles in next seasons, our bench will have to get upgrade. A big one. The major mistake was made when we bought the likes of Schurrle or Salah who will not improve on bench, and that means big inconsistency in their game when given chance to play. In theory, Salah and Schurrle are fine backups, but my opinion is that neither of the two (Salah specificaly) isnt going to do the job in case Hazard, Oscar or Willian injures for larger period of time. Looking at Bayern, Real,...they have much more quality on their bench. Sure, with time, we will reorganize this team properly, but I feel signing the likes of Salah will cause more problems than solutions. At first Schurrle cost 20mio, and secondly Salah to me looks like another Moses/Marin, I might be wrong though. And what is the point of buying Salah when he only played 3 games (less than 60min combined) since his arrival? Dont say he has to adjust, he was brought to give rest for Hazard and Willian this season, he has failed to make any kind of impact in this time. Objectively, he has shown lots of pace, but thats it.

Summer will be busy one I think, because with only adding striker (with option that 2-3 will leave), adding LB (with Cole, Luiz, potentialy leaving), will solve our 1st team problems, but not rotation issues. Partly, the blame goes on Mou for not rotating earlier in the season, but on the other hand Mikel, Torres/Ba, simply arent replacements you want in bigger or smaller games. Bench players should add something extra, freshness, goals, control,...while our bench offers that once or twice in whole year (like Schurrle who scored 3 goals, but then had another average).

Bench will never be (and should never be) on level of first team. Thats why Mata, KDB left. But players like Mikel or Torres shouldnt do anything there either. They offer nothing realy and more importantly they have NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. Not individualy, not with team.

So, besides going after main first team players, we should target decent, inform, not too expensive, allround, back up ''utility'' players ala Candreva, Griezmann, Cuadrado, Gueye, Sissoko, Aurier, etc. Also, we should try to bring someone from academy.

Because there will be games in next seasons where having proper backup for Hazard, Matic etc will be pivotal.

I have been hearing a lot of complaints about Salah. I will try to be as objective as possible.Salah Played 3 games, less than 15 mins against Newcastle, then he played in the 88th min against West Brom and 45 mins in the second half against City (Which the entire team played a very poor match ). In which game exactly did you fully judge Salah and compare him with Moses or Marin or any other player. Not to mention that he transferred to a team with no preseason to get to mix with the rest of the guys, new system, and a different league level compared to the Swiss (with respects to the Swiss league ). I think such conclusion would be ( no offense) very premature. Definitely he has to adjust. Definitely he has to blend more with the rest of the team and establish would people call team chemistry. He can only get that with playtime and since the team is in a very tight spot right, Jose can't afford to take such risks. If I am not mistaken, he said that he was building a new team and Salah true season will be next year. Salah is a great talent but he also has to work hard. Whether he comes through or not, whether he succeeds with Jose or not, whether he becomes a Chelsea standard starter/sub or not is another question. He might succeed or fail, but we can only judge objectively after at least a season or decent amount of game play. I am not a fortune teller and cannot say he will succeed or fail. However, from the games he played against Chelsea and Spurs in the Europa league and the games he played against Chelsea in the UCL I think in my humble opinion that he his a very good promising talent with more than just pace.

As far as the bench is concerned, again I would really disagree with you. A proper back up for Hazard will not be on the bench. He will definitely be starting along side with Hazard. Mikel offers certain options for Jose, Ba did not get enough games to be judges adequately, Torres had his ups and downs like Eto. Oscar had his ups and downs, Willian had his ups and downs, Schurrle has been a good replacement and is on the rise, Luiz was did a good job when Terry was out.

You look again at the age of the midfielders. They are very young. Not to mention they are very talented and have huge potential. All of them will go through the phase of inconsistency. That is why most players get there best forms and maturity levels at 25/26. Some are exceptions. Pele, Messi Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo are few of the exceptions. I think patience is key when judging an entire bench or any player whether he is a starter or not. Because in such manner most players will be transferred after half a season.

You can also look at the current results of Chelsea. We are on the top of the table. We might win it if we keep our victories and City stumbles in one match. We are more likely to advance in the UCL, where the other top English teams have failed ( with the exception of ManU who still have a chance). This was all done with young players, some of which are new and a new system and a new coach. Chelsea are already winners mate, and with next season people adapting more to each other and adapting more to Jose's system, there are much better chances for silverware than the one we had at the start of this season.

After summer's preseason and and additions during that time a proper judgement on those current players should be made, in my opinion, by the end of next season. ( with the exceptions of the veterans who had enough time to be properly judged by Jose).

[The only place to be 11,313]

At first Schurrle cost 20mio, and secondly Salah to me looks like another Moses/Marin, I might be wrong though. And what is the point of buying Salah when he only played 3 games (less than 60min combined) since his arrival? Dont say he has to adjust, he was brought to give rest for Hazard and Willian this season, he has failed to make any kind of impact in this time. Objectively, he has shown lots of pace, but thats it.

Sorry, but players do take time to adjust. The amount of flak Salah has received is a joke considering he's a young man coming to a new league. It won't be fair to judge him until September at least.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

How is sissoko better than schurrle? How is anyone from our academt better than schurrle right now. How do those players improve us quality-wise. (And this is without questioning, how schurrle is not good enough). Salah has not played enough minutes to be judged plus I think salah was not brought in for rotation but simply to give us cover for injuries.

No point in talking about strikers as it is very possible that none of the 3 might be here. New striker + lukaku is anyways an uograde to the 3 we have.

How are cole and luiz not good backups. Massively disagree. Next season we will have shaw and luiz and or zouma as backups.

As for cms, if we go into the next season with the options of matic, rambo, mvg, new cm. I don't see any problem with it.

Hence, I don't see how it will be a massively busy summer. Neither do I see the point of a busy summer.

We ll be set for the next season with buying a new st, shaw and a new cm while selling off fringe players/dead woods/unneeded players like torres, ba, etoo, marin, moses, kakuta, mikel, lamps, cole and maybe luiz.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough...I only dislike Torres, Mikel and partly Salah who are ''weak'' part of the bench. I have no complain about Luiz or Cole or even Schurrle (but for odd 20mio someone would expect more).

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Btw Oscar is shit now (attack wise) for several months and he deserves to get benched. Yet he still plays nearly every game. If we had decent bench option, that guy would take at least certain improvement to the team. Not that he would replace Oscar permamently, but at least offer consistancy and good perfomances when Oscar would be benched for certain amount of games. Schurrle or Salah could be that guy. But none of the two does the job realy and Oscar still plays nearly every game. When Matic doesnt play, we are few levels lower than with him. Mikel is good? yeah, he offers different option but he is still average at best.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Very good thread really. One of the best in recent time. All of a sudden our bench, especially our offense is looking very weak:

(1) Schurrle = needs to get stronger, not very composed in possession and makes many wrong decisions. Not top quality.

(2) Willian = Runs and runs and runs, but a low quality player. The least threatening player that I've seen for us in a while (alongside Torres). His skill-set is very predictable.

(3) Ba = Decent player, but already in his peak and little room for improvement. He needs to leave Chelsea

(4) Salah = Unknown quantity bought from the Swiss league. Was an impact sub off the bench for Basel, and it's a major ask to make such a step up. Just hope the board know what they are doing....

(5) Torres = Just fuck off already!

Anyway, the squad is good enough to win the remaining 8 games in the league, I'm sure of that. The champions league is a no-hoper. We are nowhere near good enough or experienced enough. We need to be very shrewd in this summer transfer window to get closer to the Madrid's and Munich's of this world, in terms of quality players.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Very good thread really. One of the best in recent time. All of a sudden our bench, especially our offense is looking very weak:

(1) Schurrle = needs to get stronger, not very composed in possession and makes many wrong decisions. Not top quality.

(2) Willian = Runs and runs and runs, but a low quality player. The least threatening player that I've seen for us in a while (alongside Torres). His skill-set is very predictable.

(3) Ba = Decent player, but already in his peak and little room for improvement. He needs to leave Chelsea

(4) Salah = Unknown quantity bought from the Swiss league. Was an impact sub off the bench for Basel, and it's a major ask to make such a step up. Just hope the board know what they are doing....

(5) Torres = Just fuck off already!

Anyway, the squad is good enough to win the remaining 8 games in the league, I'm sure of that. The champions league is a no-hoper. We are nowhere near good enough or experienced enough. We need to be very shrewd in this summer transfer window to get closer to the Madrid's and Munich's of this world, in terms of quality players.

Salah was a not an impact sub off the bench. Salah was a starter

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Salah was a not an impact sub off the bench. Salah was a starter

He was a bit of both. In the league, he was used a lot as an impact sub. I saw it mentioned quite a bit. Of course in the CL against us, he started all their games.

[zolayes 14,489]

IMO our squad is almost as good as good as in 2006 except for our strikers..

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

He was a bit of both. In the league, he was used a lot as an impact sub. I saw it mentioned quite a bit. Of course in the CL against us, he started all their games.

Nope, was a starter for by far many of the games in his games, hence the Swiss award. Again I didn't give him that award

[cosmicway 1,263]

Torres is respect.

But he came to CFC as slightly second hand.

Also he is not so young. He is 30 (birthday 20 March) - that's about as much as strikers go.

His partner of early days in Atletico, Nikolaidis, was much the better player -if we look at the entire carreers of both- but Nikolaidis who was also a striker was 31 and Torres was 20. So the power man was Torres and Nikolaidis the assist player. Nikolaidis retired soon after.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

IMO our squad is almost as good as good as in 2006 except for our strikers..

We are nearing that level, but still we are far from it in many areas. First it was just Torres and Mikel, now its Ramires, Willian and Oscar who are frustrating to watch in 2014. We seriously lack consistency and Willian at age 25 (nearing prime) should take give more to the team in attacking third. Oscar is going through some kind of bad form (possibly due to concentration on WC), but Rambo is just underperforming ever since Matic arrival. He offered much more (even goals here and there) but recently he is playing realy bad.

Our passing is superbly shit too, considering we have all those good expensive players, our game should be more connected. Its more than just a striker. LB and CM too at least. And our bench still doesnt do it for me. On paper, we have good one yes. But soon as we dont have 1st eleven players, Schurrle, Salah, Mikel dont do it here realy. Not for the money paid. Schurrle apart from few games, simply disapears in games and Mikel offers nothing when we are losing. Competion and alternatives are something that bench usualy gives. Our bench gives little of that. Looking at Rm bench (Isco/Di Maria, Khedira, Ilara,...) or Bayern (Kroos/Schweini/Thiago/Martinez, Shaqiri, Muller...) gives completely different options. They give competition to first team, they offer improvement, they give goals when brought on. We dont need big names or spend big money on bench players, but we need the right players there. Schurrle, Willian, Salah cost us over 60mio and right now I dont see where did that money go. For that money you get Reus and Salah for example. We buy buy buy and we dont know what for. We bough Moses and loaned him out, bought Salah and...for what? Moses could do the job Salah is doing right now. We sign way too many expensive decent players (Willian, Schurrle) instead of spending some more on one and get what you pay for. Willian and Schurrle didnt play bad realy, but you would expect more for fucking 50mio that was price they cost us.

Its one thing when older player underperforms ala Cole or Lampard who is going to be replaced sooner than later. But its another thing when very expensive player who was just bought performs bad like Willian is concerning. Im not saying we should spend crazy in summer and replace half the team, but we should buy quality and not quantity. Real players and not some expensive wannabes.

Game vs AV just proves it, first team plays bad and there is no one on the bench to make even smallest improvement or change.