Ricardo Rodriguez

[kellzfresh 7,229]

If rodriguez price is 20mil, is the english core homegrown status for shaw not worth the extra 9mil??

[sherry33 234]

If rodriguez price is 20mil, is the english core homegrown status for shaw not worth the extra 9mil??

It's not!

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

He is one of the best young left backs in the world.

Shaw, Sandro and Moreno have also been rumoured to Chelsea, but Rodriguez is the best one at the moment.

Development is rarely linear and we have no idea if Shaw will ever become as good as Rodriguez (or, for that matter, whether he will become twice as good).

Trust me, I too prefer local lads who are supporters of the club, but not at any cost. Especially not when it is required to pay more both for the transfer and wages in order to secure a currently inferior player.

WhoScored has no opinion, it only reports the statistics of the player. If he has a high rating then it is because he has earned it.

Spot on mate.

This situation reminds me somehow of Davide Santon's first days in Inter. When Jose was in charge. This boy was coming from the youth ranks and he was dubbed as the new Beppe Bergomi or the new Maldini. Fantastic talent and those who were comparing him to Bergomi were not idiots. But injuries have ruined him and look where he is now.

I'm in the same boat as you - I'm all for local talent and English core, but is he really worth that crazy money? Or those crazy wages United are offering for a youngester? At least by getting Rodriguez you know you are signing one of the best left-backs in the world, not a potential good player. Because, let's face it, that's the difference between the two right now - Ricardo Rordiguez is already a top class defender, while Shaw is only a prospect.

€20m for a proven left-back or €35m for a great prospect? €15m difference that I'm sure would also cover Rodriguez's wages.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Spot on mate.

This situation reminds me somehow of Davide Santon's first days in Inter. When Jose was in charge. This boy was coming from the youth ranks and he was dubbed as the new Beppe Bergomi or the new Maldini. Fantastic talent and those who were comparing him to Bergomi were not idiots. But injuries have ruined him and look where he is now.

I'm in the same boat as you - I'm all for local talent and English core, but is he really worth that crazy money? Or those crazy wages United are offering for a youngester? At least by getting Rodriguez you know you are signing one of the best left-backs in the world, not a potential good player. Because, let's face it, that's the difference between the two right now - Ricardo Rordiguez is already a top class defender, while Shaw is only a prospect.

€20m for a proven left-back or €35m for a great prospect? €15m difference that I'm sure would also cover Rodriguez's wages.

Stats never tell the whole story. They need context.

As for Rodriguez being a 'proven left back', I don't quite see it. He's unproven in the Premier League, unproven in Europe and unproven at a top club. If you want a proven defender then Filipe Luis is the man.

[Joker10 946]

Have we been linked with Ricardo?

seems like we are mostly linked with Shaw and Luis. If we want the best possible LB atm then Luis is the best we could get, but he is 28 though. I would still love to see him here.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Got to be Costa up front, id agree with you fully, think RR and Pogba are awesome players and young. id maybe say we need a CB as well, Mangala or Varane.

Who would you want up front? And what alternatives would you have if we couldn't get Pogba or RR?

Costa is someone I was supporting coming here until that second hamstring injury, my Spidey sense is tingling on that one now. Not that we shouldn't sign him but proceed with EXTREME caution. I think Mandzukic, Lukaku and Ba have some good qualities for a strike force too. My dream team would be Costa, Mandzukic, Lukaku since they all possess different skillsets

Without Ricardo, who I think is the only one worth putting a bid in for, I'd say stand pat and play Azpilicueta there and allow some youth to come in like Kenneth Omeruo. He can definitely play RB and CB so he's a good utility guy in the back line. He's gonna be a monster at the world cup too so having him locked up is great news.

Midfield is tricky there aren't that many who I think can function in the pivot and also move the ball like a deep playmaker, if there were every team would have one. I really think we need to throw obscene money at Pogba and just be done with it.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Stats never tell the whole story. They need context.

As for Rodriguez being a 'proven left back', I don't quite see it. He's unproven in the Premier League, unproven in Europe and unproven at a top club. If you want a proven defender then Filipe Luis is the man.

He's proven in the bundesliga though which is a very good league! And why does a guy who is 21 and costs under 20m need to be proven in Europe or at a top club? its clear to me he's a very good player, he can deliver a cross and is deadly from set pieces, those types of things won't change once he comes to the premier league.

[Rekin 835]

Dismissing stats is popular, but to be frank they are very useful at helping us understand players we do not see as often as we would like.

Here are some examples on why RR is a great choice for left back:

Key Passes: At 2,3/game RR would be in the top10 players in all of the best leagues (Serie A, La liga, PL & Bundesliga), and remember that he is a left back up against the like of Ribery, Messi, Silva & Hazard (as a matter of fact he is not far behind Hazard).

Crossing: There are currently six (!) players in the previously mentioned leagues who have more accurate crosses

Dribbles: Only one defender has more succesful dribbles than he does. Those two are far far ahead of the other defenders in this department.

Tackles: When looking at defenders he would be in the top5 in all the main leagues when it comes to tackles (one person that has more is our own Cesar)

Now, there are other great attributes (such as his excellent skills when it comes to set-pieces), but I cant be bothered to go through all of them.
The point is that he is the best left-back statistically in all of the best Leagues, and he is only 21.

Is he unproven? It depends on how you define proving yourself, but he is first choice in Wolfsburg which is a good german club. He has achieved high ratings against clubs like Dortmund and Bayern who we know belong to the absolute elite.
He is in the fifth highest ranked player on WS in total.

Do all of this guarantee success?
Of course not, but the way I see it we are taking a smaller risk than with Shaw for a better price (again, I highly rate Shaw, but if it was a contest between the two of them RR would win easily).

[The only place to be 11,313]

He's proven in the bundesliga though which is a very good league! And why does a guy who is 21 and costs under 20m need to be proven in Europe or at a top club? its clear to me he's a very good player, he can deliver a cross and is deadly from set pieces, those types of things won't change once he comes to the premier league.

It's a very different league and the demands are different, as Kevin De Bruyne's experience here showed. Some players can make the transition whilst others can't and whilst Rodriguez looks very good going forward I think there are some questions about his defensive game. That's something Jose won't accept.

Dismissing stats is popular,

Not as popular as presenting them without context or interpretation.

Stats on whoscored aren't the be all and end all. £20 million for someone like Rodriguez is still as big a risk as £30 million for Shaw in my opinion, and the potential rewards are probably greater going for a young English talent. Don't forget that Shaw is MILES ahead of where Rodriguez was at age 18. Development paths are not linear but you would hope that Shaw would continue to improve.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

It's a very different league and the demands are different, as Kevin De Bruyne's experience here showed. Some players can make the transition whilst others can't and whilst Rodriguez looks very good going forward I think there are some questions about his defensive game. That's something Jose won't accept.

I don't know what you guys are looking for right now... The finished article is not going to be available within the Chelsea price range. Besides what is the point in scouting if all you do is wait till the player is complete till you put in a bid for him?

Ricardo is a very good option at LB no matter what league he's played in, few can argue he wouldn't improve this club and also improve overall under the masterful tutelage of Jose Mourinho.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Dismissing stats is popular, but to be frank they are very useful at helping us understand players we do not see as often as we would like.

Here are some examples on why RR is a great choice for left back:

Key Passes: At 2,3/game RR would be in the top10 players in all of the best leagues (Serie A, La liga, PL & Bundesliga), and remember that he is a left back up against the like of Ribery, Messi, Silva & Hazard (as a matter of fact he is not far behind Hazard).

Crossing: There are currently six (!) players in the previously mentioned leagues who have more accurate crosses

Dribbles: Only one defender has more succesful dribbles than he does. Those two are far far ahead of the other defenders in this department.

Tackles: When looking at defenders he would be in the top5 in all the main leagues when it comes to tackles (one person that has more is our own Cesar)

Now, there are other great attributes (such as his excellent skills when it comes to set-pieces), but I cant be bothered to go through all of them.

The point is that he is the best left-back statistically in all of the best Leagues, and he is only 21.

Is he unproven? It depends on how you define proving yourself, but he is first choice in Wolfsburg which is a good german club. He has achieved high ratings against clubs like Dortmund and Bayern who we know belong to the absolute elite.

He is in the fifth highest ranked player on WS in total.

Do all of this guarantee success?

Of course not, but the way I see it we are taking a smaller risk than with Shaw for a better price (again, I highly rate Shaw, but if it was a contest between the two of them RR would win easily).

I bet more than half the people who dog stats don't know that Chelsea actually use stats a helluva a lot! They rely on Opta to analyze all sorts of players and teams, its scouting made easy.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I don't know what you guys are looking for right now... The finished article is not going to be available within the Chelsea price range. Besides what is the point in scouting if all you do is wait till the player is complete till you put in a bid for him?

Ricardo is a very good option at LB no matter what league he's played in, few can argue he wouldn't improve this club and also improve overall under the masterful tutelage of Jose Mourinho.

Exactly. He isn't the finished article so I don't quite understand the argument that he's far and away the better choice compared to Shaw. Shaw for my money is better defensively whilst also having a good attacking game. He's also starting in the toughest league in the world at the same age that Rodriguez was still in the Swiss league.

Personally I'd rather spend a bit more for a guy who has the intangibles Shaw does. If you want the finished article the Luis is the man though, and he's cheaper than both.

I bet more than half the people who dog stats don't know that Chelsea actually use stats a helluva a lot! They rely on Opta to analyze all sorts of players and teams, its scouting made easy.

Actually I guarantee that every user on this forum is well aware that Chelsea use stats as part of their scouting and tactical analysis of their own players and their opposition.

But they also realise that it's just one tool in doing this and that stats never tell the whole story.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I bet more than half the people who dog stats don't know that Chelsea actually use stats a helluva a lot! They rely on Opta to analyze all sorts of players and teams, its scouting made easy.

Prove it

[Rekin 835]

But what context or interpretation do you feel is lacking? If I write that he has 2,3 key passes per game, what exactly am I conceiling? Having had statistics several times at university-level I am perfectly aware of its limitations, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Wolfsburg might be playing differently than Chelsea, Bundesliga might be different from the premier league, but a player who is able to succesfully find his targets with a cross or set-piece does not magically lose this ability when traveling to a new country, neither does he forget how to dribble or pass. The player might have difficulties in some departments (tactics or physically [altough RR is built very well]), but he does retain his skills. Shaw would also share some of the difficulties that RR would encounter.

You say that Shaw is MILES ahead of RR at the same age, but I think that it is too bold a statement. Did you actually follow RR three years ago so that you can claim this? Being Swiss he obviously had to go through a different career-path that might not have provided the exposure a young talent like Shaw gets in his own home-country. We might actually say that RR has an advantage in adapting to a new league in a different country, something Shaw has yet to do.

Rodriguez is right now far ahead of Shaw. It is possible that Shaw will be as good at 21, but we already know that RR is excellent right now. I would be happy with either of them, but if we are looking at minimizing risk, RR would be the better choice.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Exactly. He isn't the finished article so I don't quite understand the argument that he's far and away the better choice compared to Shaw. Shaw for my money is better defensively whilst also having a good attacking game. He's also starting in the toughest league in the world at the same age that Rodriguez was still in the Swiss league.

Personally I'd rather spend a bit more for a guy who has the intangibles Shaw does. If you want the finished article the Luis is the man though, and he's cheaper than both.

Actually I guarantee that every user on this forum is well aware that Chelsea use stats as part of their scouting and tactical analysis of their own players and their opposition.

But they also realise that it's just one tool in doing this and that stats never tell the whole story.

He's not the finished article but in everything he does he is MILES better than Shaw. Its hardly debatable and for a guy who I think understands the game and seems sensible I don't know why you have so much to say to the contrary.

And you are entitled to your opinion, dog... I'm not gonna argue with you over why I think Ricardo is better than Luke in every category, to me its as plain as day.

Your finished article is statistically nowhere near Rodriguez.... Dude you will never convince me that Luis or Shaw are better options than Rodriguez, its just not gonna happen. I've watched all three quite a bit and for me Ricardo's skillset is head and shoulders above both of them.

[The only place to be 11,313]

But what context or interpretation do you feel is lacking? If I write that he has 2,3 key passes per game, what exactly am I conceiling? Having had statistics several times at university-level I am perfectly aware of its limitations, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Wolfsburg might be playing differently than Chelsea, Bundesliga might be different from the premier league, but a player who is able to succesfully find his targets with a cross or set-piece does not magically lose this ability when traveling to a new country, neither does he forget how to dribble or pass. The player might have difficulties in some departments (tactics or physically [altough RR is built very well]), but he does retain his skills. Shaw would also share some of the difficulties that RR would encounter.

You say that Shaw is MILES ahead of RR at the same age, but I think that it is too bold a statement. Did you actually follow RR three years ago so that you can claim this? Being Swiss he obviously had to go through a different career-path that might not have provided the exposure a young talent like Shaw gets in his own home-country. We might actually say that RR has an advantage in adapting to a new league in a different country, something Shaw has yet to do.

Rodriguez is right now far ahead of Shaw. It is possible that Shaw will be as good at 21, but we already know that RR is excellent right now. I would be happy with either of them, but if we are looking at minimizing risk, RR would be the better choice.

The level of opposition matters, as do the differences in the league. The Premier League is much faster-paced than the Bundesliga that has a big impact in my opinion.

Quite frankly it comes down to individual opinions and I think they're both extremely promising youngsters but I simply don't believe there's a massive difference in the risk attached to buying either one of them. Shaw has proven that he can handle the Premier League and Rodriguez has yet to do that. Yes his whoscored rating is great, but so was De Bruyne's at Werder Bremen (7.58....coooo) and he struggled with the rigours of English football.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He's not the finished article but in everything he does he is MILES better than Shaw. Its hardly debatable and for a guy who I think understands the game and seems sensible I don't know why you have so much to say to the contrary.

And you are entitled to your opinion, dog... I'm not gonna argue with you over why I think Ricardo is better than Luke in every category, to me its as plain as day.

Your finished article is statistically nowhere near Rodriguez.... Dude you will never convince me that Luis or Shaw are better options than Rodriguez, its just not gonna happen. I've watched all three quite a bit and for me Ricardo's skillset is head and shoulders above both of them.

Cool dog. Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Prove it

http://www.optasports.com/who-we-work-with.aspx#1209