Chelsea Youth

[lionsden 4,689]

Harsh on Piazon, he's been fantastic at Vitesse, and is so far one of the best players in the Eredivisie this season, and like he says, they play football the right way there, no hoofing.

It was a great league for Suarez to hone his skills, Piazon is getting exactly what he needs, games.

And after his loan spells what do we expect to happen to him ultimately?. . .even if he continues to excel at every club we decide to farm him out to on loan. if a genuinely world class player like mata and KDB, a certified Belgian int'l are struggling for game time under mourinho then Piazon or whoever has no chance in **** of making it here. by making it, I'm referring to having decent to solid first team participation.

Boga and Traore will likely suffer similar fate as by the time they reach the "right age" they would still gave oscar, mata (if he stays) william to contend with and going by the recent and worrying trend of stockpilping attacking midfielders, more £20m plus AM purchase is inevitable to further destroy their chances of ever making it.

[lionsden 4,689]

If there's little will to bring youth through to the first team, what is the point in having an academy? We might as well just buy players at 18 and not bother with our own production line.

I lost faith in our commitment to youth development and integrating academy players into the first team when we bought Van Ginkel and gave him the spot that could and should have been offered to either Chalobah or Nathan Ake. some could argue even RLC. but ofcourse the grass is always greener on the other side. . . .he's dutch int'l, so he must be better.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

And after his loan spells what do we expect to happen to him ultimately?. . .even if he continues to excel at every club we decide to farm him out to on loan. if a genuinely world class player like mata and KDB, a certified Belgian int'l are struggling for game time under mourinho then Piazon or whoever has no chance in **** of making it here. by making it, I'm referring to having decent to solid first team participation.

Boga and Traore will likely suffer similar fate as by the time they reach the "right age" they would still gave oscar, mata (if he stays) william to contend with and going by the recent and worrying trend of stockpilping attacking midfielders, more £20m plus AM purchase is inevitable to further destroy their chances of ever making it.

I genuinely don't know. He's excelling in Holland and I think he's got the potential to be a great player, Rodgers was apparently keen to snatch him from us in September, perhaps that could be his next move on loan so he can then make it here or else where. A player's career depends on his innate level of talent and the performances on the pitch, it's all up to him really. And that goes for all our loanees and youth players.

The truly great players always make it to the top of the pyramid, barring injuries or any psychological problems.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I lost faith in our commitment to youth development and integrating academy players into the first team when we bought Van Ginkel and gave him the spot that could and should have been offered to either Chalobah or Nathan Ake. some could argue even RLC. but ofcourse the grass is always greener on the other side. . . .he's dutch int'l, so he must be better.

Youth development doesn't quite work that way. It's not like making a car, as I said above it all depends on the intrinsic level of talent of the player in the first place. Coaching, training. etc. only serve to prepare players for their careers. Barcelona have been developing players for decades, but how come there has been only one Lionel Messi? If you watch clips of him on youtube at the age of 5, he's virtually the same player.

[didierforever 7,349]

so let me get this straight. we should throw out the likes of mata, hazard, kdb, oscar, schurlle, willian so that there is place in the team for the likes of piazon, kakuta, boga etc. that seems like a perfectly decent request.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Piazon has been very good for Vitesse so far, even PvA

No doubt, but where's he going to go from there? Even if we sold him I'm not sure we'd recoup the transfer fee, wages and associated costs.

With regards Piazon, I've never been overly impressed with him since his days in the youth team. Nice player but never took the game by the balls like you'd perhaps hope he might (and like Boga does). Could have a decent career but not here in my opinion.

I lost faith in our commitment to youth development and integrating academy players into the first team when we bought Van Ginkel and gave him the spot that could and should have been offered to either Chalobah or Nathan Ake. some could argue even RLC. but ofcourse the grass is always greener on the other side. . . .he's dutch int'l, so he must be better.

I had no problem with Van Ginkel because I thought he would compliment Mikel, Lamps, Chalobah, Ake and Ramires....I didn't expect us to recall Essien, loan Chalobah and bury Ake in the youth team.

Youth development doesn't quite work that way. It's not like making a car, as I said above it all depends on the intrinsic level of talent of the player in the first place. Coaching, training. etc. only serve to prepare players for their careers. Barcelona have been developing players for decades, but how come there has been only one Lionel Messi? If you watch clips of him on youtube at the age of 5, he's virtually the same player.

So your argument is that Barca have only produced one 'greatest player of all time'?

I think the most of us would be happy with the development of squad players like Valdes, Montoya, Tello, Pedro etc.

Or maybe other worldies like Puyol, Iniesta, Guardiola, Xavi etc.

Of course that's ignoring the comment about the 'intrinsic level of talent of the player in the first place' because players like Chalobah are immensely talented and physically ready. Yet they are farmed out to Championship sides.

[lionsden 4,689]

so let me get this straight. we should throw out the likes of mata, hazard, kdb, oscar, schurlle, willian so that there is place in the team for the likes of piazon, kakuta, boga etc. that seems like a perfectly decent request.

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

[The only place to be 11,313]

so let me get this straight. we should throw out the likes of mata, hazard, kdb, oscar, schurlle, willian so that there is place in the team for the likes of piazon, kakuta, boga etc. that seems like a perfectly decent request.

I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

What a lot of supporters want is for the academy graduates to be given a chance to compliment the first-team squad and maybe challenge for a spot when they've earned that shot.

I know you might think we're still churning out Mark Nicholls and Neil Shipperley but we have one of the finest academies in the world and yet the pathway from youth team to first-team is seemingly non-existent.

Signings absolutely have their place but so do homegrown players - in fact they're a necessity in the modern game.

[Stats 7,135]

Raheem Sterling barely even counts. He was at QPR for much longer than Liverpool.

But he is still a player they developed through the academy. He joined them at 15 and progressed from the youth team, to reserves to the first team so while he was at QPR for his very young days, Liverpool are the team who actually developed him and pushed him on.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

No doubt, but where's he going to go from there? Even if we sold him I'm not sure we'd recoup the transfer fee, wages and associated costs.

With regards Piazon, I've never been overly impressed with him since his days in the youth team. Nice player but never took the game by the balls like you'd perhaps hope he might (and like Boga does). Could have a decent career but not here in my opinion.

I had no problem with Van Ginkel because I thought he would compliment Mikel, Lamps, Chalobah, Ake and Ramires....I didn't expect us to recall Essien, loan Chalobah and bury Ake in the youth team.

So your argument is that Barca have only produced one 'greatest player of all time'?

I think the most of us would be happy with the development of squad players like Valdes, Montoya, Tello, Pedro etc.

Or maybe other worldies like Puyol, Iniesta, Guardiola, Xavi etc.

Of course that's ignoring the comment about the 'intrinsic level of talent of the player in the first place' because players like Chalobah are immensely talented and physically ready. Yet they are farmed out to Championship sides.

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

[lionsden 4,689]

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves the season before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong.

There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key factors.

if juve hadn't rescued him and Pogba was still playing poorly for the man utd reserves then you would have said " if pogba was on the same level of talent of say (insert any youngster playing first team football here) then he wouldn't be struggling in the man utd's reserves this season" right?. Do you see the flaw in your argument?.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong. There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key.

Pogba was fed up with not getting a chance - the same seems like it could be happening with Chalobah based on some of the reports coming from Forest.

Environment is so important to a player's development - just look at Morrison at West Ham. Given a bit of responsibility in a new place and he's starting to fulfil the potential everyone said he had.

[Stats 7,135]

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

HAHA

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves the season before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong.

There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key factors.

if juve hadn't rescued him and Pogba was still playing poorly for the man utd reserves then you would have said " if pogba was on the same level of talent of say (insert any youngster playing first team football here) then he wouldn't be struggling in the man utd's reserves this season" right?. Do you see the flaw in your argument?.

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

I like Nathan and I think he'll make it here, but not now, he's some 2 or 3 years away from being in the squad. There are 20 PL clubs, at least 15 of them are constantly desperate for a talented player, how come not one of them thought Nathan had the level required to play in the PL this season? That's my point.

[didierforever 7,349]

I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

What a lot of supporters want is for the academy graduates to be given a chance to compliment the first-team squad and maybe challenge for a spot when they've earned that shot.

I know you might think we're still churning out Mark Nicholls and Neil Shipperley but we have one of the finest academies in the world and yet the pathway from youth team to first-team is seemingly non-existent.

Signings absolutely have their place but so do homegrown players - in fact they're a necessity in the modern game.

youngsters who are deemed good enough for the first team will get a chance. how many youngsters can we actually say could have made it here matic, sinclair, stoch (not more than a squad role) and this is since 2004.

we are taking decisions that are best for the team and for the youngsters.

also the problem is not with the youngsters, its with the rotation manager policy that we have going on here. tell me, could RDM have risked playing a match or 2 with the yout, FSW?, AVB?. i dont see any youngsters ,unless he is absolutely exceptional, coming near the first team cos of the manager system we have here.

[didierforever 7,349]

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

kdb takes oscar's spot? i dont wanna get into another "kdb is the next zidane" argument so i ll leave it here.

so tell me who would take schurrle and willian's role. cos last time i checked we dint have youth players of that standard.

the only point i can actually concede to is chalobah taking mvg's role. except for that everythin is far-fetched. we bought ba cos the sturridge situation was not working. he wanted to leave (or rather play) and we wanted to sell him (or rather stick with torres and start him every game). so ba had to be bought as his replacement. etoo was bought cos jose had seen in training that ba, torres and lukaku were not good enough to win things. hence the etoo buy.