Chelsea Youth

[lionsden 4,689]

so let me get this straight. we should throw out the likes of mata, hazard, kdb, oscar, schurlle, willian so that there is place in the team for the likes of piazon, kakuta, boga etc. that seems like a perfectly decent request.

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

[The only place to be 11,313]

so let me get this straight. we should throw out the likes of mata, hazard, kdb, oscar, schurlle, willian so that there is place in the team for the likes of piazon, kakuta, boga etc. that seems like a perfectly decent request.

I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

What a lot of supporters want is for the academy graduates to be given a chance to compliment the first-team squad and maybe challenge for a spot when they've earned that shot.

I know you might think we're still churning out Mark Nicholls and Neil Shipperley but we have one of the finest academies in the world and yet the pathway from youth team to first-team is seemingly non-existent.

Signings absolutely have their place but so do homegrown players - in fact they're a necessity in the modern game.

[Stats 7,147]

Raheem Sterling barely even counts. He was at QPR for much longer than Liverpool.

But he is still a player they developed through the academy. He joined them at 15 and progressed from the youth team, to reserves to the first team so while he was at QPR for his very young days, Liverpool are the team who actually developed him and pushed him on.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

No doubt, but where's he going to go from there? Even if we sold him I'm not sure we'd recoup the transfer fee, wages and associated costs.

With regards Piazon, I've never been overly impressed with him since his days in the youth team. Nice player but never took the game by the balls like you'd perhaps hope he might (and like Boga does). Could have a decent career but not here in my opinion.

I had no problem with Van Ginkel because I thought he would compliment Mikel, Lamps, Chalobah, Ake and Ramires....I didn't expect us to recall Essien, loan Chalobah and bury Ake in the youth team.

So your argument is that Barca have only produced one 'greatest player of all time'?

I think the most of us would be happy with the development of squad players like Valdes, Montoya, Tello, Pedro etc.

Or maybe other worldies like Puyol, Iniesta, Guardiola, Xavi etc.

Of course that's ignoring the comment about the 'intrinsic level of talent of the player in the first place' because players like Chalobah are immensely talented and physically ready. Yet they are farmed out to Championship sides.

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

[lionsden 4,689]

No; my point was footballers aren't plucked out of a conveyor belt nor created out of a stencil, if they were, there would be hundreds of Messis. One's career is primarily dependable of one's talent. Clubs coach, prepare and nurture them, that's all.

On your second point, you're wrong once again, Chalobah is talented yes, but if he was of the same level of talent of say Pogba, he wouldn't be struggling in the Championship this season. There are different levels of talent, that's my point.

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves the season before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong.

There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key factors.

if juve hadn't rescued him and Pogba was still playing poorly for the man utd reserves then you would have said " if pogba was on the same level of talent of say (insert any youngster playing first team football here) then he wouldn't be struggling in the man utd's reserves this season" right?. Do you see the flaw in your argument?.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong. There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key.

Pogba was fed up with not getting a chance - the same seems like it could be happening with Chalobah based on some of the reports coming from Forest.

Environment is so important to a player's development - just look at Morrison at West Ham. Given a bit of responsibility in a new place and he's starting to fulfil the potential everyone said he had.

[Stats 7,147]

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

HAHA

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I have plenty of friends who support man utd and even on redcafe, the overall consensus is that pogba was disinterested and playing far below par for the reserves the season before he left for Juve so you couldn't have been more wrong.

There are certain factors that influences how well a player does and motivation and form (which applies to every footballer at every level and stage) are key factors.

if juve hadn't rescued him and Pogba was still playing poorly for the man utd reserves then you would have said " if pogba was on the same level of talent of say (insert any youngster playing first team football here) then he wouldn't be struggling in the man utd's reserves this season" right?. Do you see the flaw in your argument?.

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

Has anyone said differently? What La Masia has found is a formula that best prepares young kids with talent for the rigours of professional football. We have a fantastic academy in place but it's bridging that gap that is an issue.

That's my opinion so how you can simply say it is wrong I'm not sure, but Chalobah has been highly regarded and massively impressive for years now. I don't see anything in your post that points to specifics about his ability to suggest that you actually have any knowledge of him.

This year he has been underwhelming but last year he was one of the most impressive young English players around. Even when he and Pogba were in direct competition, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest. You should try and look at some of the old videos of our youth games with him in them.

Enjoy your pint.

I like Nathan and I think he'll make it here, but not now, he's some 2 or 3 years away from being in the squad. There are 20 PL clubs, at least 15 of them are constantly desperate for a talented player, how come not one of them thought Nathan had the level required to play in the PL this season? That's my point.

[didierforever 7,349]

I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

What a lot of supporters want is for the academy graduates to be given a chance to compliment the first-team squad and maybe challenge for a spot when they've earned that shot.

I know you might think we're still churning out Mark Nicholls and Neil Shipperley but we have one of the finest academies in the world and yet the pathway from youth team to first-team is seemingly non-existent.

Signings absolutely have their place but so do homegrown players - in fact they're a necessity in the modern game.

youngsters who are deemed good enough for the first team will get a chance. how many youngsters can we actually say could have made it here matic, sinclair, stoch (not more than a squad role) and this is since 2004.

we are taking decisions that are best for the team and for the youngsters.

also the problem is not with the youngsters, its with the rotation manager policy that we have going on here. tell me, could RDM have risked playing a match or 2 with the yout, FSW?, AVB?. i dont see any youngsters ,unless he is absolutely exceptional, coming near the first team cos of the manager system we have here.

[didierforever 7,349]

No. more like we shouldn't have bought Schurrle, william,Oscar, Van Ginkel, Etoo and possibly Ba as they werent needed at the time and rather use our resources more efficiently and intelligently. therefore, sturridge and Lukaku taking Ba and etoo's spot and KDB, Chalobah instead of Oscar and Van ginkel.

kdb takes oscar's spot? i dont wanna get into another "kdb is the next zidane" argument so i ll leave it here.

so tell me who would take schurrle and willian's role. cos last time i checked we dint have youth players of that standard.

the only point i can actually concede to is chalobah taking mvg's role. except for that everythin is far-fetched. we bought ba cos the sturridge situation was not working. he wanted to leave (or rather play) and we wanted to sell him (or rather stick with torres and start him every game). so ba had to be bought as his replacement. etoo was bought cos jose had seen in training that ba, torres and lukaku were not good enough to win things. hence the etoo buy.

[The only place to be 11,313]

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Did you see them both at youth level? The difference in their careers has been one had a chance taken on him.

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

50k a week? Juve only pay him about £20k don't they? In fact wasn't that the figure reported in the press at the time?

What's your source (he asked knowing he wouldn't get one)?

Pogba wanted football. A lot of United fans wanted him to get games but he didn't, so he left.

I like Nathan and I think he'll make it here, but not now, he's some 2 or 3 years away from being in the squad. There are 20 PL clubs, at least 15 of them are constantly desperate for a talented player, how come not one of them thought Nathan had the level required to play in the PL this season? That's my point.

How comes Swansea signed Michu? Managers make mistakes and some teams would rather sign Huddlestone and Livermore because they're 'PL Proven'.

I'm not entirely sure what you're basing the 2 or 3 year estimate on but then I'm not entirely sure you've seen him enough to know what deficiencies he has in his game, so I won't push you. I assume you'll use general terms like 'experience' and maybe 'reading of the game'.

I'm of a different opinion.

youngsters who are deemed good enough for the first team will get a chance. how many youngsters can we actually say could have made it here matic, sinclair, stoch (not more than a squad role) and this is since 2004.

we are taking decisions that are best for the team and for the youngsters.

also the problem is not with the youngsters, its with the rotation manager policy that we have going on here. tell me, could RDM have risked playing a match or 2 with the yout, FSW?, AVB?. i dont see any youngsters ,unless he is absolutely exceptional, coming near the first team cos of the manager system we have here.

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

The only way this issue can get better is to keep a coach for more than 3 years. That will bring the needed continuity to the club. Once a new coach comes in, he needs to have instant success to secure his job before thinking of the youth. So the only way the youth will have a chance, is for continuity of one coach. That is the reality

[The only place to be 11,313]

The only way this issue can get better is to keep a coach for more than 3 years. That will bring the needed continuity to the club. Once a new coach comes in, he needs to have instant success to secure his job before thinking of the youth. So the only way the youth will have a chance, is for continuity of one coach. That is the reality

Yup.

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

EDIT - here's my view.

Mourinho had a chance to make changes at the start of the season. He was the most popular a coach has been for a long time here and we were near rock-bottom after the Benitez debacle. He could've used our young players and said he was building a new Chelsea, with a new identity.

Instead he went the other route. Hopefully it works out for the best and we begin to use the academy but it'll be tough for him to find another moment in time when he'll have the freedom to do something radical, like Fergie did in 1995.

[lionsden 4,689]

What, I couldn't be more wrong in saying that Pogba is more talented than Chalobah? Have you seen him play lately?

Pogba wasn't rescued, he wanted 50k a week to sign a pro contract with United, they didn't want to give him that kind of dough, so he left and never looked back. Take your blue tinted specs for a second and think objectively.

I dfon't even know what you are talking about right now. who cares who's more talented of the two, that's not even the point here. even though it's highly debatable. The point is, Juve provided a platform for him to develop and succeed as a player. the same cannot be said of chalobah and our other talented youngsters

Pogba was playing poorly for the man utd reserves and that was a fact not an opinion. fergie was reluctant to throw him into the deep end which caused him to lose motivation and desire and pogba even said so himself. Juve coming in for him was the change he needed at that time in his career and the trust and faith they showed in him is the reason for his development as a player. that was my argument.

I'm willing to bet that the opinion oh you and others would have been different had Pogba continued to rot in Utd's reserves instead of . . . .

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Yup.

The constant need for success has turned us into a schizophrenic mess of a club with no identity.

But at least we won the CL in 2012.

Thats the price we paid for instant success. As you can see, madrid no longer bring youths through their ranks, instant success and constant changing of managers cause this. Life is a b*tch sometimes

[didierforever 7,349]

I agree with your last point about the culture of the club and I don't know if that comes from above, or if our fanbase is so fickle that they wouldn't put up with subpar performances from youngsters. I fear it may be a bit of both.

We haven't seen a high enough calibre of youngster come through until the last 18-24 months. I just don't understand what Ake has done to be demoted when he was impressive last season in a position that we desperately need numbers.

Instead we play Michael Essien in league cup games.

to be honest cant see any "youth players" getting a chance this season. we have a 25 man strong squad.

players like essien are not going to be getting any chances/matches in PL and he is not even in CL, hence the COC matches. next season would be correct judge of our policies with "youth". mceachran, romeu (though he does not come in that category), pva, kakuta, piazon etc.

[Rmpr 8,977]

People in here are not naive when it comes to youth academies and have reasonable expectations.

Okay.

Enjoy.

Yeah right, everyone of our youngsters are future Ballon D'or winners and we wont have to buy any other players for the next 10 years!

I dont even know why we have Mourinho and Emenalo in charge, you clearly know a lot more than both of them...

[The only place to be 11,313]

Thats the price we paid for instant success. As you can see, madrid no longer bring youths through their ranks, instant success and constant changing of managers cause this. Life is a b*tch sometimes

So we're Real Madrid now.

That's fucking depressing.