Lewis Baker

[lionsden 4,689]

I agree with what you're saying, but simple answer to that is the fact that we lacked managerial stability. Honestly, now that's a bit more solidified at the moment, I expect to see a big improvement on this.

Managerial stability isnt enough though. These youngsters are not getting first team opportunities and that doesnt seem like changing anytime soon considering the average age of the current squad is one of the youngest in europe. Boga,baker,christensen,rlc et al are basically doomed.

[lionsden 4,689]

You're right in every way, but in reference to the Kalas thing: would you rather him be kept at the club this season? JT and Cahill have been pretty good and neither have been even slightly injured. If Kalas had stayed then he would have probably been 4th/5th choice CB (depends on Ivan) and he wouldn't have got much game time... I don't think that would've been good for him or us.

Now whether we should have signed Zouma and instead given his spot to Kalas is another debate entirely...

I don't think anyone is happy with our youth system or the way we go about integrating youth into our first team, but I do feel like it is STARTING to change for the better. With Jose hopefully (this part is vital) staying for at least another 3/4 years then we will have the managerial stability like you said. And I do feel like as players like JT, Mikel, Luis, Ramires & Drogba leave we will replace them with youth players such as Kalas, Chalobah, Ake, Baker & Bamford. If at least 2/3 of them aren't integrated in the next 2/3 years then Mourinho will have failed. It's a big ask but something we need to start doing.

I guess i'm saying that i'm hopeful that Ake and Baker training with the first team is a good step and I hope to see Kalas, Chalobah and maybe Bamford return from their current loans and get incorporated into the first team also. Next 2 summers will be key for us.

I have got to disagree here. Kalas is a very talented player that has proven himself in the dutch leqgue and even in the epl albeit to a much lesser extent and ivanovic is pretty much our first choice right back which should have meant kalas as the third choice CB behind the ageing JT and cahill. JT at his age shouldnt have to play every epl and ucl games

[lionsden 4,689]

Double post

[The Skipper 20,609]

Managerial stability isnt enough though. These youngsters are not getting first team opportunities and that doesnt seem like changing anytime soon considering the average age of the current squad is one of the youngest in europe. Boga,baker,christensen,rlc et al are basically doomed.

You can't deny that managerial stability will certainly help the situation though. My point was that over the last few years, because the manager has always been under massive pressure to get results, that they can't really risk it and throw in a youngster here or there. With managerial stability - when the manager knows that him taking a few risks won't result in speculation about him losing the job - the opportunities for youngsters should naturally arise.

For now we'll just have to wait and see. The likes of Boga, Baker, RLC and Christensen are all huge talents though and do have the ability to make it through but everything has to fall into place for them for that to happen, and managerial stability is just one of those aspects.

[ulvhedin 525]

And now many people are talking about signing worldclass CB which would mean Zouma, Kalas and Christensen will rot on bench/loan.

[lionsden 4,689]

You can't deny that managerial stability will certainly help the situation though. My point was that over the last few years, because the manager has always been under massive pressure to get results, that they can't really risk it and throw in a youngster here or there. With managerial stability - when the manager knows that him taking a few risks won't result in speculation about him losing the job - the opportunities for youngsters should naturally arise.

For now we'll just have to wait and see. The likes of Boga, Baker, RLC and Christensen are all huge talents though and do have the ability to make it through but everything has to fall into place for them for that to happen, and managerial stability is just one of those aspects.

Ofcourse managerial stabilityis very important and I have already conceded that. However the mentality and philosophy of the manager is just as important as the stability itself.Of what use his managerial stability if the brightest youngsters never get any opportunities. In order for it to work and be worth it, the manager has to be someone that takes great joy and pride in watching youth develop and blossom like Van Gaal, pep, Klopp, pre 2012 Wenger (before the pressure to win got to him)et al

[The Skipper 20,609]

Ofcourse managerial stabilityis very important and I have already conceded that. However the mentality and philosophy of the manager is just as important as the stability itself.Of what use his managerial stability if the brightest youngsters never get any opportunities. In order for it to work and be worth it, the manager has to be someone that takes great joy and pride in watching youth develop and blossom like Van Gaal, pep, Klopp, pre 2012 Wenger (before the pressure to win got to him)et al

I agree with that, and it's something I hope Jose will develop more during his time here.

[Myself 793]

Something I've noticed so far.. so many people on this forum want us to buy Varane/Benatia/Hummels etc. but they also expect us to bring youth players through?

[iseah100 5,612]

Something I've noticed so far.. so many people on this forum want us to buy Varane/Benatia/Hummels etc. but they also expect us to bring youth players through?

Just like people want Reus, Pogba, and Vidal but also want Boga, Baker and RLC to come through the ranks.

[Tomo 21,751]

Something I've noticed so far.. so many people on this forum want us to buy Varane/Benatia/Hummels etc. but they also expect us to bring youth players through?

There's a thing called balance.

Take Benatia for example at 27, four years time he's 31 and Zouma is 23, almost perfect ages for the gradual switchover to start.

What seems to be overlooked is how complicated youth development is, if we had a youth player that could have come into the fold and been as good as Cesc (technically, tactically and mentally) we would have kept the 27m and played him instead.

I do believe that A LOT depends on the player himself, fans tend to blame the club when things don't work with young players (I mean seriously, do you believe Conor Clifford is a Southend squad player instead of Chelsea and Ireland captain because we didn't give him that extra bit of care and attention?) take JT for example during his young years we accepted a bid from Huddersfield for him and we brought William Gallas which (seemingly) chucked him down the pecking order but he fought and fought and the rest is history, if Baker, Chalobah etc want to have a career here, they will need to show that sort of fight (and be good enough of course).

Chala is another example, he has a PL loan and with it a wonderful chance to make himself a genuine option in this squad, now this Burnley team are woeful, if Nathaniel can't break past some of the dross in there team, how on earth can we justify including him in our squad next season?

Youth development works both ways, if we are this evil club not giving player's good enough chances, one of our European rivals would happily show us how stupid we were (ala Pogba from United).

Oh remember Miroslav Stoch? a lot of Chelsea fans wanted him to be our new number 1 winger after his loan at Twente, he's been shipped on loan to the Greece league by Fener, guees were have to make do with Eden Hazard, silly board.

[lionsden 4,689]

There's a thing called balance.

Take Benatia for example at 27, four years time he's 31 and Zouma is 23, almost perfect ages for the gradual switchover to start.

What seems to be overlooked is how complicated youth development is, if we had a youth player that could have come into the fold and been as good as Cesc (technically, tactically and mentally) we would have kept the 27m and played him instead.

I do believe that A LOT depends on the player himself, fans tend to blame the club when things don't work with young players (I mean seriously, do you believe Conor Clifford is a Southend squad player instead of Chelsea and Ireland captain because we didn't give him that extra bit of care and attention?) take JT for example during his young years we accepted a bid from Huddersfield for him and we brought William Gallas which (seemingly) chucked him down the pecking order but he fought and fought and the rest is history, if Baker, Chalobah etc want to have a career here, they will need to show that sort of fight (and be good enough of course).

Chala is another example, he has a PL loan and with it a wonderful chance to make himself a genuine option in this squad, now this Burnley team are woeful, if Nathaniel can't break past some of the dross in there team, how on earth can we justify including him in our squad next season?

Youth development works both ways, if we are this evil club not giving player's good enough chances, one of our European rivals would happily show us how stupid we were (ala Pogba from United).

Oh remember Miroslav Stoch? a lot of Chelsea fans wanted him to be our new number 1 winger after his loan at Twente, he's been shipped on loan to the Greece league by Fener, guees were have to make do with Eden Hazard, silly board.

So because some of the youth players haven't been good enough admittedly means our approach to youth development and handling is flawless and the right way to do things? Is your suggestion to continue with the strategy of loaning these players to death until they lose the motivation and fight left in them or end up on a really bad team on loan where they aren't getting eny game time at all which in effect stagnate their development. How about give them incentives, encouragement, a reason to keep fighting?

When they see our woeful record with youth integration and how we never give the cream of the crop any decent opportunities (Ake,Christensen and Baker have barely had a kick this season, Kalas who was suppose to be outr 3rd or 4th choice CB has been farmed out on loan yet again after an impressive display against Liverpool) and then they themselves go on a very successful loan only to come back to square one and be shipped straight back on loan, why should they keep fighting what seems like a lost cause? . . . No matter how well I do on loan there's no way the manager will play me ahead of the senior players.

While I agree with you that opportunities shouldn't be handed out cheaply and should be earned, I also think the reward hasn't been forthcoming to those that deserve (have deserved it) and you are underestimating the human element and psychological impact of the way we handle these youngsters.

I refuse to believe we have not had atleast one youth player over the years that was as good (better than) the likes of Benayoun,Sidwell,Ben haim,Moses,Marin,Salah et al. Why buy a fringe player when you can promote internally and achieve similar if not better result for no additional cost?

[Tomo 21,751]

So because some of the youth players haven't been good enough admittedly means our approach to youth development and handling is flawless and the right way to do things? Is your suggestion to continue with the strategy of loaning these players to death until they lose the motivation and fight left in them or end up on a really bad team on loan where they aren't getting eny game time at all which in effect stagnate their development. How about give them incentives, encouragement, a reason to keep fighting?

When they see our woeful record with youth integration and how we never give the cream of the crop any decent opportunities (Ake,Christensen and Baker have barely had a kick this season, Kalas who was suppose to be outr 3rd or 4th choice CB has been farmed out on loan yet again after an impressive display against Liverpool) and then they themselves go on a very successful loan only to come back to square one and be shipped straight back on loan, why should they keep fighting what seems like a lost cause? . . . No matter how well I do on loan there's no way the manager will play me ahead of the senior players.

While I agree with you that opportunities shouldn't be handed out cheaply and should be earned, I also think the reward hasn't been forthcoming to those that deserve (have deserved it) and you are underestimating the human element and psychological impact of the way we handle these youngsters.

I refuse to believe we have not had atleast one youth player over the years that was as good (better than) the likes of Benayoun,Sidwell,Ben haim,Moses,Marin,Salah et al. Why buy a fringe player when you can promote internally and achieve similar if not better result for no additional cost?

I agree to a point, i do believe wr could/should have done better however if one of our player's go on loan and become really really good, they will get a shot, Courtois is the prime example, rightly or wrongly that's the type of level they need to get to , to be first team regular here. KDB is another example to an extent, he jyst got unlucky for a variety of reasons. Bertrand eventually got his spot as a squad player here after impressive loans, he got unlucky due to the fact Mou builds team stability on defence and rarely rotates it (even Filipe is struggling to break past Cesar). If Mou rotated defence like he does AM, i think Ryan would still be here.

Player's will be patient on loans purely because our level is what they aspire to, young player's keep coming here despite our underwhelming recent record, they know what there signing up for.

You do have a point re Moses, Marin etc it would be good to start using some of them as squad player's (Jack Cork is one of them that can consider himself unlucky, I reckon he would have been perfect as a John O Shea type squad player).

Believe me if we won a CL one day with Baker, Chala and RLC there will be no one more delighted and proud than me, but it will take a lot of frustrations, fighting, patience and growing pains (on ours and there's behalf) if we ever get to that point.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Poor lad.

[iseah100 5,612]

He should leave, he'll never geta chance here, may end up like McEcharan

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He should leave, he'll never geta chance here, may end up like McEcharan

Are you on your period?

As if making an appearance off the bench against Shrewsburry would have affected his future! He still has a looong long way to go if he wants to make it here which has nothing to do with tonight's game. He'll need to go out on a couple pf loans, do exceptionally well and then hope that the circumstances are right for him to be given a chance and that we don't already have several top-class players in his position. And that goes for all the youngsters.