The Benitez Thread

[robdog 2,084]

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a great coach.

As you pointed out in your earlier post, RDM wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't doing that bad. The team was in 3rd, advanced in the League Cup & was about to embark to the CWC as favorites. So the wins @ Emirates or 3 point lane don't count? The knee jerk decision wasn't needed in Nov.

Our problem lies beyond the manager, don't try to blame everything on the coach (RDM or Benitez).

This shows how The Board is not in contact w/ the supporters. Their belief was that if rafa started to win, then the fans would accept him. Maybe rafa should have apologized for his comments as l'puke gaffer. I guess he thought CFC fans have short memories or he thought they were plastic. He was wrong. So I guess we have to live w/ this poor decision by the board. Sucks to be CFC fan atm.

[Kez 2,727]

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

Yeah there were problems under RDM, I think these problems have been doubled by bringing Benitez in though. He's got one hell of a job on his hands to rescue this season. I just cannot see it happening though. Obviously Roman ended up in a position of having to give RDM the job. The timing of this season & pep's sabbatical fucked Romans plans up. I just think he could have stuck with him till the end of the season & got a top 4 finish parted with robbie & hired pep as expected. We can only hope that rafa has a plan, I'm not convinced though.

[Tomo 21,751]

First loss to West Ham since 2002 and not winning a league game in. 7 games since 1995.

Fucking hell we should get Hoddle in to advise......

You can't blame Rafa on that one, Jose fucked up long unbeaten records against Fulham, Spurs and City that spanned over a decade.

[Strike 7,474]

RDM got much more than six months, and during his ternure I failed to see Chelsea playing as strong team, one or another game aside. I remember FA Cup final, Chelsea were leading 2-0, then in the 2nd half Liverpool just dominated the game, and it was almost 2-2.

To other side if you give a guy like RDM this job, you cant expect him to do much better than that, so why give him the job?

I have to say I perhaps it was the first time Roman got it wrong, but I just dont get people claiming RDM is a gret coach.

yeah. the whole problem lies in the fact that RDM was given the job and not that he was fired. he was always going to get fired, sooner rather than later..i question Roman's judgement on hiring him in the first place. now all we have is an unbalanced team with a clueless manager. if rafa had begun his work in July, we would be much further along in the transition by now

[robdog 2,084]

if rafa had begun his work in July, we would be much further along in the transition by now

Maybe you didn't get the memo, CFC fans have never liked telly tubby. When the rumor started at the end of last season, the fans voiced their displeasure about the rumors. So why do you think the fans would accept telly tubby now?

[Muzchap 8,966]

How are we going to play with 2 up front? We don't even have 1 striker...when teams like United & Citeh have 3-4 quality strikers. Torres is beyond repair, Sturridge has fitness issues.

Ok, so when everybody else says play Moses up front on his own etc etc

That's acceptable?

I say play Torres + 1 other up front - Moses, Marin, Piazon etc

And now that's a stupid idea?

I'm well aware of our lack of Strikers, see my posts in the Summer - when I was asking for any striker and actually wanted Berbatov for 5 million...

4231 is not working! 4411 or 442 might, with a non recognised striker playing an advanced role to give the team another 'option' on an 'out' ball...

[The only place to be 11,313]

As you pointed out in your earlier post, RDM wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't doing that bad. The team was in 3rd, advanced in the League Cup & was about to embark to the CWC as favorites. So the wins @ Emirates or 3 point lane don't count? The knee jerk decision wasn't needed in Nov.

The team was in 3rd - should have probably been higher but we drew away at Swansea, drew at home to Liverpool and lost away to West Brom.

League Cup - We played our most important players against United (who rested their's) and then looked lethargic away to Swansea.

CWC - EVERY European team goes into it as favourites.

Champions League - you didn't mention this, but we're almost certainly out of that. It's a massive blow to the club, especially financially.

Super Cup - a 4-1 mauling against the third best team in Spain???

It wasn't a kneejerk decision. Roman probably had in mind a series of criteria that would necessitate Robbie being sacked and I have to guess that Robbie probably exceeded even Roman's worst case scenario.

[Strike 7,474]

Maybe you didn't get the memo, CFC fans have never liked telly tubby. When the rumor started at the end of last season, the fans voiced their displeasure about the rumors. So why do you think the fans would accept telly tubby now?

my point is not about supporting benitez. we should have taken the decision to appoint a proper manager in the summer and should have stuck with him

[diskoviolente 425]

It takes a working class lad like Terry, who learnt his craft on the Hackney marshes, ridiculed by the press, to motivate and cajole skilful players into the mindset to actually win the game

Its a shame that players can be ''worth'' so much yet dont have the balls and psychological steel to take a game by the scruff of the neck, and need to be motivated to realise its primarily about sticking the ball in the back of the fucking onion bag

To be fair though I think they will get there. Especially in Mata and Oscar we have two real fighters. But there is only so much they can do if the others don´t do enough. I think that this stage we are in is the real transitionional stage everyone was afraid of. Building a new team around new players. Shame that we don´t have the right manager to oversee that.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

To be fair though I think they will get there. Especially in Mata and Oscar we have two real fighters. But there is only so much they can do if the others don´t do enough. I think that this stage we are in is the real transitionional stage everyone was afraid of. Building a new team around new players. Shame that we don´t have the right manager to oversee that.

Agree about the transitional phase -but that has been foisted upon the club via shabolic decisions. The leadership skills, grit and determination on the pitch will be hard to replace when Captain, Leader, Legend hangs up his boots. Cant quite see Oscar or Mata in the same vein somehow. The continuity that is lacking in terms of managers, has been patched over by JTs stewardship on the pitch. With 11 managers, assistants and backroom staff, spinning through the revolving door he has been the bedrock that has inspired, geed up, and kept CFC on its feet. Something that shouldnt be over looked or underestimated.

[diskoviolente 425]

Agree about the transitional phase -but that has been foisted upon the club via shabolic decisions. The leadership skills, grit and determination on the pitch will be hard to replace when Captain, Leader, Legend hangs up his boots. Cant quite see Oscar or Mata in the same vein somehow. The continuity that is lacking in terms of managers, has been patched over by JTs stewardship on the pitch. With 11 managers, assistants and backroom staff, spinning through the revolving door he has been the bedrock that has inspired, geed up, and kept CFC on its feet. Something that shouldnt be over looked or underestimated.

Couldn´t agree more. Whilst it was amazing to see what JT is capable of it always was going to be a problem when he is playing a lesser role, like right now. Player power and it's flipside.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

Hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmj89kDwmHw&feature=g-u

[Laylabelle 9,534]

yeah. the whole problem lies in the fact that RDM was given the job and not that he was fired. he was always going to get fired, sooner rather than later..i question Roman's judgement on hiring him in the first place. now all we have is an unbalanced team with a clueless manager. if rafa had begun his work in July, we would be much further along in the transition by now

Either that or he'd been sacked and have Grant as manager...

The team was in 3rd - should have probably been higher but we drew away at Swansea, drew at home to Liverpool and lost away to West Brom.

League Cup - We played our most important players against United (who rested their's) and then looked lethargic away to Swansea.

CWC - EVERY European team goes into it as favourites.

Champions League - you didn't mention this, but we're almost certainly out of that. It's a massive blow to the club, especially financially.

Super Cup - a 4-1 mauling against the third best team in Spain???

It wasn't a kneejerk decision. Roman probably had in mind a series of criteria that would necessitate Robbie being sacked and I have to guess that Robbie probably exceeded even Roman's worst case scenario.

Third best of whatever doesnt matter on the day.You play like crap you get punished.Man U went out their 'easy' group,not all top teams etc but just the way things happen.

League cup,you want to win every trophy and the play your best worked with Jose..we played our best and still nearly went out so god knows what our second lot would've done

Drawing to Liverpool no biggie...we've lost to them most of the times before,Swansea arent an easy team and West Brom we lost last season.Anyone can beat anyone on the day really.The loss to Man U is when things turned to crap really and ref decisons didnt help that one.And Man U have been utter shite this season...they just have had the strike force that we so need!

Champs league god knows what went on there.Not taking chances and playing pretty shite really.Lucky for a late goal from Moses we still have a shot even if its a small one

Guess just worried if these issues arise we Pep,random draws etc what then?Spent so long after the bloke cant just sack at the first sign of badness

[super_frank8 186]

1. He lost the dressing room? lol. My point previously stands, many of our players have been under-performing since under RDM, so does that mean he lost the dressing room too?

2. No i wasn't going to say that, but i'd say you need luck to win the CL. Pep needed huge luck to knock us out and win his first one. RDM needed luck to knock out Barca and somehow win the CL in another team's home stadium. Man utd needed luck to beat us in the final etc.

3. Didn't he win the league in Spain?

4. That's right, but what way can we successfully play exactly without a proper striker? at the beginning of the season we were fortunate we had Hazard and Mata carrying us, now they have both slowed down and so has the team, and one of the main reasons is we don't have a striker we can depend on for goals.

1. Okay, well if you really want to get particular about things, then it's less that he has lost the dressing room - & more that he never has & never will have it. The players will never respect him, simply because he doesn't deserve it. & I don't understand how you are able to connect individually under-performing players to RDM's influence - because he was undoubtedly a significant part of our success last year especially in selecting the correct team & unifying & insipring the team to push themselves to the brink of glory - the players carried us over the edge, but I don't think AVB would have got us anywhere near it in the first place with the manner in which he was spontaneously self-imploding.

This season, in my opinion the real issue with RDM was not just in some of his tactics, but also due to the unfortunate occurence of the team-crippling injuries that have afflicted Terry & Lampard. We have missed them both severely during their absence - both in terms of leadership & inspiration, as well as ability & consistency on the pitch - & that has translated in our results ever since. It is beyond the manager's power to perform miracles of instantaneous healing on key players, so I really don't see how that part is his fault whatsoever. What he failed to do however was to address & resolve the consequent issues adequately - & players like Luiz/Cahill/Mikel/& of course our dear Fernando did not help him with that - but not for one second do I believe that the players were not still playing for him as they had been doing. At least not up to the point of the Clattenburg saga - wherein, as we all know, things truly went to shit.

2. Of course you need some luck. In football, luck is an enormous aspect in ultimate success - I don't think any team has ever won a trophy without more than a bit of luck. But the difference between your examples & Rafa is that he didn't just escape from defeat thanks to a sprinkling of luck on a single or even a handful of occasions - it was a constant throughout his entire reign at Merseyside - & continuously outstanding individual performances from his key players dragged his arse out of the gutter when his awfully naive team selections & ignorant tactics would have otherwise all but assured defeat. & yer sure, everyone gets this kind of 'luck' once in a while, it happens - but for the players on the pitch, that's not really completely down to luck - I would rather call it coincidence/skill if I'm being entirely objective since it is due to certain individuals on the pitch being in the right place at the right time or a little moment of magic/amazing display of ability that turns the game on it's head.

Rafa was generally 'lucky'/'fortuidous' in the sense that he shouldn't have won many of the games he did based on the questionable tactics that he employed & the negativity it evidently caused within the performances - but in the significant moments of the big games, particularly in knock out competition when the stakes were exponential, his player's passion for the fans & will to win saved his blushes on numerous occasions. His key players made things happen when his strategies failed, which to me, was extremely lucky for him. & nevertheless due to his reliance on the likes of Gerrard & co, when they couldn't quite pull the rabbit out of the hat every week in the league, his team suffered some embarrassing defeats & thus he was never really able to maintain the consistently positive results & performances together for any significant stretch of time.

But that's the kind of luck that makes the world go around to be honest - in reality what I was particularly referring to was the fact that a goal, that wasn't actually a goal, was incorrectly judged to have been so - that is the kind of shit that is complete & utter indisputable injustice - & thus pure unadulterated luck for him as a manager - no matter how you look at it. A cataclysmic error in performance on the official's part bailed him out of a match that his team simply shouldn't have won - which allowed them to get to a final that they shouldn't have been in. That's the truth - & assuming that you were a Chelsea supporter back then, you would have seen the exact same thing.

It is significantly different to Iniesta smashing home a late goal in extra time or Bayern dominating possession yet being unable to break through our defence to finish off the game - or Drogba putting a bullet header into the back of the net to equalise at the death. That's the kind of luck that I guess I can accept, because it just happens & in reality it is made by the players on the pitch themselves (even if it's just by being there at all). Benitez's incident of fortune that put him in the position to win the CL was artificially manufactured through a grievous mistake, & the worst part is that he took no shame in dismissing & denying it all, as is his usual position on things. That is why he is the luckiest cunt - ever.

3. Well obviously when I say 'the league' I'm talking about the BPL because that's the one that we play in last time I checked...if your first language is Spanish, then I can understand the confusion, otherwise I'm not sure how that wasn't already fairly deducible...

But okay fair enough, maybe that wasn't made clear enough on my part - so I'll go ahead & humour your response.

He won the La Liga 10 years ago with an incredibly strong Valencia side that had made it to two consecutive Champions League finals in the years prior - they had the likes of Canizares, Ayala, Mista, Vincente, Carew, Baraja & Aimar - all of whom were exceptional players at the time. This was also at a point when Real & Barca weren't necessarily the outright best teams in the league considering how competitive & frankly impressive Valencia, as well as Deportivo & Real Sociedad were back then - they certainly weren't able to dominate their rivals in the same way they do in this current age because those other teams mentioned were just as consistent as they were & had a range of top class players at the pinnacle of their game.

Benitez also had a vastly different philosophy back then - because his Valencia side were one of the most attacking teams in Europe - & they could afford to risk such an audacious mindset having one of the best goalkeepers & centre backs in the world along with Baraja dominating everything in the midfield - whilst Aimar was quite simply a wizard going forward, & Carew & Mista were exemplary finishers anywhere in & around the box. That is why he was actually able to string together such consistent results back then, because his team always took the game to the opposition & strived to get goals whilst having an extremely reliable backline to allow for their ambitious nature & absorb pressure against better sides.

That Valencia team were good enough to compete with just about any other in Europe at the time, so it is ignorant for so many individuals on this board to suggest they were just some average team in & around Real & Barca that Benitez somehow miraculously transformed in some kind of rags-to-riches underdog fairytale; when in reality they were right up there with them & had been for some time before his arrival. There used to be a genuine top 4/5 in Spain too you know.

Anyway back to the point that I was actually making...his Liverpool team took up a very different tactical approach because of the intially poor results that he experienced early in the season. & although they may have excelled in cup ties throughout the season, where in reality the objectives of his strategies were 'not to lose at any cost', they were really rather poor in the prem & that didn't actually change apart from the one season that he got close enough to get a sniff of Manure's arse. This is because you can't rely on conservative defensive ideals & encouraging & allowing opposition to pile on the pressure & dominate for long periods of the game over an entire season; & expect to win the league.

4. Of course not having an in-form striker is a massive issue - but the real problem is the way in which we haven't resolved it - & that is not going to change until at least January due to Abramovich's reluctance to give up the ghost on the shadow of the player Torres once was. Even I still hold the admittedly desperate & futile hope that he can find some kind of form in the near-future - because I've always loved him as a player since I sat in the stands of the Vincente Calderon & watched him score a hat-trick as a 19 year old captain of Atletico & continued to admire him at Liverpool despite his annoying habit of scoring against us, so it was truly a dream signing for me when he finally made it to the Bridge - however the longer this recently realised nightmare goes on, the less likely it seems it will actually happen. So yer, I think it's overwhelmingly obvious to anyone who understands football in the slightest sense that we need to sign a new striker.

But for the situation we currently find ourselves in until then, there is no reason we couldn't, at least theoretically, try something like putting Moses up front instead. I realise it will never actually happen, not in the starting line up at least - but it is an optional solution nevertheless. However in reality, in addition to the fact that Mazacar are finding it difficult to find the same form they had earlier this season - what we are severely lacking is the service & goal scoring capabilities from the heart of the midfield - & yet again, in my genuinely objective opinion at least, it is down to a key component in our offensive play that has been missing from our team since his injury & our dramatic dip in form - Super Frankie Lampard.

Once he & JT are fully fit & back in the team - then we may just have a chance of turning this catastrophic shit-storm around. But for now - for tonight - all we can really do is pray to a god that has clearly been absent for us in recent weeks & hope for the best - whilst being prepared for the worst...

[super_frank8 186]

HEY GUYS I THINK I'VE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM!!!

The best defender in our team - is apparently the same guy who's playing up front - http://www.dailymail...fa-Benitez.html!

But don't worry, he scores in training all the time...

Fucking lol.

Think I'm starting to like Rafa a little more already...at least he knows how to make me laugh...