That crucial player

[BLionheart 516]

It will always be a myth whether a great superstar is what makes a great team that great or vice versa , case in point will be Messi and Barcelone , there is always this argument of whether he is that good because of having the likes of Xavi , Iniesta , Alves , etc. playing around him in a system designed to get the best out of him or Messi is really what's setting this team apart and giving them the edge over other teams.

That has always been the case with great teams with superstars , there was/will always be that one superstar that the greatest football teams are built around and systems are developed for his goods , United designed a system to get the best of Ronaldo , Arsenal did the same before with Henry , Madrid with Zidane , Barca with Ronaldinho and then Messi , Milan with Kaka , etc.

All of those teams has superb players in their squads with those superstars like Deco , Ronaldinho , Rooney , Tevez , Pirlo , Xavi , Iniesta , etc.... but the system was always designed to get the best of the likes of Messi , Ronaldo , Zidane ,etc... and those teams has always got the benefits of it.

Like much of those teams that went to history as one of the greatest teams , we now have many great players (potentially) , but which player does have the mental strength + footballing ability top be our X-factor might be the question right not ? or are we planning on having a system that doesn't serve a special player more than another ?

IMO this player should be Eden Hazard , the new system should be designed to get the best out of Hazard , we definitely have some other amazing talents like Oscar , Mata but i think Hazard at his best will be the only one capable of making the difference day in day out consistently .

While the three are all smart technicians , they have many similar attributes but each has his own different skill-set , and Hazard's set is a one of a future Ballon D'or .

While i am very excited by the trio of Hazard - Oscar - Mata , i think that Hazard's best games came next to Mata and another winger providing width , stretching oppositions and doing much of the defensive work for him and Mata .

If that's gonna be the case then Hazard - Mata - Moses for me will be much better for the good of the team , i know oscar is one hell of player to be on the bench but that's what's best for the team if we are planning on having a system to get the best out of our best player.

Thoughts ?

I do really hope you would understand that i am not implying that we should build a system around Hazard , i am just opening a general debate of whether great teams are buillt around ballon D'ors ... or ... Ballon D'ors are made by their great teams

Edited October 2, 2012 by BLionheart

[Spike 12,049]

I'd rather a system that gets the best out of all players.

I disagree with the statement Barcelona plays to get the best out if Messi. They play to get the best out of their very technical players. A lot of players just lazily look to Messi to win games and get the out of holes. Messi makes the system better not vice versa. A better example would be Ruud van Nistelrooy at United, almost everything was focused on Horseface scoring.

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Usually a formation is made to suit the team rather than one individual player. If we want to just use the formation to get the best out of Eden Hazard lets play a 9-1-0.......

[Rmpr 8,977]

It is a great discussion, but I think it is not the right time to do so. Maybe 1-2 seasons in the future.

I also think these players apears spontaneosly. Even the likes of Zidane and CR7 with RM. they needed a season until the team started to build around them, not only 2 months.

I personally belive that this season should be prepared exactly how it is been planned. Different and equally important role for every of our stars...

Again, it is a freakly awsome debate, just think it is a little bit rushed at the moment...

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Good discussion but i think it's a bit early days to revolve our whole system around 1 player.

Atm we're still trying to balance our team and play all three of our playmakers. Also i don't think that's really something you decide beforehand. It get's decided by the performances of the players. Messi didn't get the superstar role, he took it with his own performances.

I agree with you that Hazard's skillset has a more X-factor to it then Mata's or Oscar's. While Oscar and Mata have also shown that they can be decisive and create that X-factor (Oscar's goal vs Newcastle, Mata's heel flick against Stoke) i do feel their quality's lie elsewhere.

Oscar has got the quality's to be a worldclass deep lying playmaker. I think he's the best distributor we've got. Great amount of stamina, good defensively, great passing range and he already has a tendency of picking up the ball deep. He doesn't really dribble that much he's more of a pass and move kinda player. Also when on the nr 10 position he doesn't really interchange that much. I mean he never really moves towards the wings. He always remains in a central position even if Hazard or Mata have moved into the centre.

Mata's strong points are his movement, his passing range, his creative passing. He probably has 1 of the best crosses i've ever seen in my life. His goal and his assist vs Arsenal are proof of that. Both times great delivery. He also interchanged and combined well with Hazard.

Hazard showed in his first 3 PL games what he could bring to the team.

I do feel that 1 of the reasons why Hazard hasn't been able to replicate that form is because of Oscar's presence on the pitch.

There's a clear lack of width when all three of them are playing. This congests the centre of the pitch and doesn't give any room to roam into as Hazard likes to do.

This has resulted into Hazard being pushed out more to the wing (also ,i think,under instructions of RDM) which isn't doing anything good for his performance.

Imo i think it would be best for the team if Oscar was brought back 1 row and put into the pivot while Hazard and Mata could then interchange between left wing and nr 10 with Moses on the right creating the width.

Although i think we're not ready to play that way just yet but i do believe it's the way to go in the future.

[warnie_666 1,081]

Usually a formation is made to suit the team rather than one individual player. If we want to just use the formation to get the best out of Eden Hazard lets play a 9-1-0.......

Our entire style of play for past 8 years revolved around Drogba. We tried to replace Drogba with Torres and it was unsuccessful. Torres is all about through balls and making runs behind the defenders. Drogba is all about playing with his back to the goal.

Man Utd built a team that revolved around Ronaldo.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

I'd rather a system that gets the best out of all players.

Exactly. If Hazard truly is a future Ballon D'or winner, he should be able to thrive even if Oscar and Mata play. Those 3 should be starting. No ifs and buts about it. Sure for certain games start Moses and/or Marin if width is needed but those 3 Maestro's are too good to be left out.

[BLionheart 516]

My words were certainly misunderstood by some , I never said that we must change our system right now to suit Hazard , in fact i am just opening this debate of whether great teams in history have deployed a system to get the best of a certain superstar and whether we should follow a similar path or not , also if we are to do that is Hazard the suitable player ?

[BLionheart 516]

I'd rather a system that gets the best out of all players.

I disagree with the statement Barcelona plays to get the best out if Messi. They play to get the best out of their very technical players. A lot of players just lazily look to Messi to win games and get the out of holes. Messi makes the system better not vice versa. A better example would be Ruud van Nistelrooy at United, almost everything was focused on Horseface scoring.

Messi as great as he is can't meet his own standards when playing with Argentine , that's because the system in Barca whether people admit it or not is designed to get the best out of him , was he a great player before using that system ? of-course , was he that great ? that's another question

[BLionheart 516]

Exactly. If Hazard truly is a future Ballon D'or winner, he should be able to thrive even if Oscar and Mata play. Those 3 should be starting. No ifs and buts about it. Sure for certain games start Moses and/or Marin if width is needed but those 3 Maestro's are too good to be left out.

Hazard should be able to thrive regardless who plays alongside him , but not all systems will get the best out of him .

[Spike 12,049]

Messi as great as he is can't meet his own standards when playing with Argentine , that's because the system in Barca whether people admit it or not is designed to get the best out of him , was he a great player before using that system ? of-course , was he that great ? that's another question

Messi has nearly scored all of Argentina's goals in his last 6 games with them. Not only that but they haven't lost with him this year. The National Team Messi argument is no longer relevant. In the last year he has scored 11 times with Argentina, in the previous six he had scored 17 times.

Hell, Rooney, Roanldo, Del Piero, Totti, and many other players never reach their standard with their respective national teams. It's a terrible argument and I cringe when people use it. Matt Le Tissier has 8 caps for England, yet many will say he is one of the best English players of all time, just look at what he did with Soton!

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I had this feeling you know. Barcelona bought ibrahimovic and sold him because it didn't let messi get better.

They bought villa and converted him from a striker to a winger. At any other club he won't be wasted in a wings, his goal tally has dropped drastically.

C ronaldo was the main man for man utd. Even for madrid, u can see he doesn't defend to waste stamina and alonso and khedira cover for him. But they know ronaldo is their most crucial player in a counter attack and have set their system to suit that.

I always imagined a situation where chelsea played barca's false 9 system, with

mikel as busquets,

Lampard as xavi

Oscar as iniesta

Moses as sanchez

Mata as pedro

Hazard as messi

Mikel

Lamps. Oscar

Moses. Hazard. Mata

But most times, it has more to do with the playing style of the team and buying players to suit the style.

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Our entire style of play for past 8 years revolved around Drogba. We tried to replace Drogba with Torres and it was unsuccessful. Torres is all about through balls and making runs behind the defenders. Drogba is all about playing with his back to the goal.

Man Utd built a team that revolved around Ronaldo.

Yes but the 4-3-3 was also a great formation for Lampard, Makelele, Robben, Duff, Gudjohnsen, Malouda, Anelka, Ballack, Deco etc as well... they could all play in it. Its better having 11 players who can play in the same system rather than 1. Anyway they are professional footballs so they should be able to adapt.

[Styles 9,790]

Leave Oscar on the bench? Jeez, I'm glad you're not the manager. This kid is special. I strongly believe he will be even better than Hazard and Mata.

It hasn't even been 6 weeks. Oscar, Hazard and Mata are still learning how to play together and it will take a lot longer than one month for that to happen. This is what everybody wanted; a transition from our old team to our new team. It takes time. There will be off games and losses along the way but the future is looking very bright.

The idea of setting up our whole game for one player is ridiculous. What if he loses form or suffers injury? Football is a team game. If Hazard is going to be the player we want him to become he has to impose his will on games and perform. That's what separates the good from the great.

[The Rising Sun 709]

dont think hazard will be here for more than 3 years, maximum 4 years,

IMO he is using the PL as a springboard for the spanish giants.

Therefore i dont think we should build our team around anyone in particular, but a particular style of football, where players can come and instantly fit into the ethos and style of football played.

Like Michu has for swansea. Not the best example, but it is one none the less.

[DYC. 7,542]

Oscar is going to be HUGE. You just wait and see.

[Stingray 9,441]

dont think hazard will be here for more than 3 years, maximum 4 years, IMO he is using the PL as a springboard for the spanish giants. Therefore i dont think we should build our team around anyone in particular, but a particular style of football,

Now for being an eternal optimist that is very pessimistic :-)

Also no evidence based statement whatsoever. just sophistry, commit it then to the flames:-)

[The Rising Sun 709]

Now for being an eternal optimist that is very pessimistic :-)

Also no evidence based statement whatsoever. just sophistry, commit it then to the flames:-)

Hazard had given interviews saying that while he had interest from Madrid and Barca, he wanted to go and develop at a club in which he got playing time and the premiership is perfect in that sense. He said a lot more too, not coming to my mind at the moment.....

Based on that i think he will head to Spain in a few years time.