The Problem in Chelsea 4-2-3-1 Formation

[Sheva. 5,373]

That's not what is happening at all. I have no idea why people think that the double pivot is two defensive midfielders nor do I have any idea why people think speed is crucial for a deep-lying midfielder. I think there is just a narrative that has taken hold that cannot be shaken. Possible the three best deep-lying midfielders in football today are Pirlo, Iniesta, and Xabi Alonso. None of them are particularly fast (in fact, I would say "slow" would be applicable to Alonso at least). None of them are defensive midfielders. They are distributors and they also know how to get forward to join the attack. The deep-lying midfielder position is a creative, distributive one with some defensive responsibilities. Speed is simply not crucial for the role.

Lampard's problem has been that his passing so far has been sub-standard and he's probably making one or two too many runs a game. Maybe it's that he's lost something but it could also be a bad few games to start the season. Players do have bad stretches. The reason we have been playing Ramires on the right is that neither Hazard or Mata track back enough (and Ivanovic needs some protection as he's been caught out of position often so far this season.) It's clear that no matter what Lampard is going to get blamed for everything (and this is a trend that went back to last year after he had a few bad games then.) If we give up goals, it's because of Lampard in the double pivot. If we don't score, it's because of Lampard in the double pivot. (And if we do keep a clean sheet or score, it has nothing to do with Lampard.) People just have the same ideas for what's wrong with Chelsea and they watching games to confirm these opinions. It's really the same with Ramires. He's not ideal for the right attacking midfield, but because people hate him there, they don't see any good that he does and exaggerate how bad he is there. Nobody seems to have mentioned Ramires' pass to Hazard that he should have scored on. Nobody mentions Lampard's beautiful through-ball to Bertrand that he should have done better with. If it doesn't fit with the narrative, just ignore it.

With Ramires, we do have other options to play on the right. With Lampard, we don't have any other options. He's not ideal for the deep-lying midfield positions, but we literally have nobody else right now to fill that spot. Perhaps Oscar will develop into that spot, but he has a lot of adapting still to go.

Alright Ramires made one good pass in the 2nd minute, what else did he do for the remainder of the time he played on the right? nothing.

The most annoying thing (apart from the fact that, that wing is basically useless when we attack) about Ramires playing on the right is he doesn't even help out as much defensively as Bertrand does on the left.

When Bertrand starts ahead of Cole you can be almost sure they won't get beat more than once. Totally different case on the right side.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Alright Ramires made one good pass in the 2nd minute, what else did he do for the remainder of the time he played on the right? nothing.

The most annoying thing (apart from the fact that, that wing is basically useless when we attack) about Ramires playing on the right is he doesn't even help out as much defensively as Bertrand does on the left.

When Bertrand starts ahead of Cole you can be almost sure they won't get beat more than once. Totally different case on the right side.

Part of that is Cole is the best 1 on 1 defending LB in the world and Ivanovic is not near that level. Ramires didn't have a good match, but he wasn't nearly as awful as people make him out to be but then again, he never is Look at the game thread, 10 minutes into the match with Ramires creating the best chance of the game and people are writing "take Ramires off" and "he's useless". If it were Oscar who had played that 10 minutes, the same people would have written "that cross to Hazard shows his quality, and he has great pace, he deserves to be starting." It's almost as if the game itself doesn''t matter because no matter what, people will say the players they liked played well and the players they didn't were awful. The reason we didn't win against QPR is that Hazard and Luiz missed 3 glorious opportunities to score and we didn't get a deserved penalty (or two). We really only conceded one very good chance (when Terry cleared the ball away from the empty net, although to be fair Cole was right behind him if it got through).

[communicate 2,703]

Part of that is Cole is the best 1 on 1 defending LB in the world and Ivanovic is not near that level. Ramires didn't have a good match, but he wasn't nearly as awful as people make him out to be but then again, he never is Look at the game thread, 10 minutes into the match with Ramires creating the best chance of the game and people are writing "take Ramires off" and "he's useless". If it were Oscar who had played that 10 minutes, the same people would have written "that cross to Hazard shows his quality, and he has great pace, he deserves to be starting." It's almost as if the game itself doesn''t matter because no matter what, people will say the players they liked played well and the players they didn't were awful. The reason we didn't win against QPR is that Hazard and Luiz missed 3 glorious opportunities to score and we didn't get a deserved penalty (or two). We really only conceded one very good chance (when Terry cleared the ball away from the empty net, although to be fair Cole was right behind him if it got through).

Against qpr we really miss Mata because there is nobody that can boss the game for us. The funny thing is we have Brazil no 10 on our bench. I have no problem with ramires on the wing because it giver US balance just not bertrand and ramires

[communicate 2,703]

Alright Ramires made one good pass in the 2nd minute, what else did he do for the remainder of the time he played on the right? nothing.

The most annoying thing (apart from the fact that, that wing is basically useless when we attack) about Ramires playing on the right is he doesn't even help out as much defensively as Bertrand does on the left.

When Bertrand starts ahead of Cole you can be almost sure they won't get beat more than once. Totally different case on the right side.

He is there to give cover for iva and to mark opp fullback when the fullback overlap. You cannot expect him to create chances consistently or boss the game for us because that's not his game. As long a he create one chance per game and stop opp fullback, I am happy

[Sheva. 5,373]

Part of that is Cole is the best 1 on 1 defending LB in the world and Ivanovic is not near that level. Ramires didn't have a good match, but he wasn't nearly as awful as people make him out to be but then again, he never is Look at the game thread, 10 minutes into the match with Ramires creating the best chance of the game and people are writing "take Ramires off" and "he's useless". If it were Oscar who had played that 10 minutes, the same people would have written "that cross to Hazard shows his quality, and he has great pace, he deserves to be starting." It's almost as if the game itself doesn''t matter because no matter what, people will say the players they liked played well and the players they didn't were awful. The reason we didn't win against QPR is that Hazard and Luiz missed 3 glorious opportunities to score and we didn't get a deserved penalty (or two). We really only conceded one very good chance (when Terry cleared the ball away from the empty net, although to be fair Cole was right behind him if it got through).

No you're wrong, people were writing "Take Ramires off" because he was playing badly as usual. This is something stats do not tell you, Oscar could have created that chance and still for the rest of the game looked lively, linked up well with others etc. But Ramires, nah.

He looked more like himself when we switched to 4-3-3 as many admitted after the game.

The reason we didn't beat QPR was because we started with a very negative team. Sure we could still have scored and won 1-0 or something, but with a different lineup there's every possibility we could have created more chances than we did. And avoided that dreadful 20 minutes at the beginning of the 2nd half when we couldn't get into their half.

[Sheva. 5,373]

He is there to give cover for iva and to mark opp fullback when the fullback overlap. You cannot expect him to create chances consistently or boss the game for us because that's not his game. As long a he create one chance per game and stop opp fullback, I am happy

But he doesn't even create one chance a game 90% of the time.

[Jase 43,479]

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/tactical-analysis-what-is-wrong-with-chelseas-4-2-3-1/

A good article on the problems we have with the 4-2-3-1.

[communicate 2,703]

When playing 3 attacking midfielders that is exactly what you DO want. Obviously they are involved in the movement of the ball in attacking play but there is no way one of them should be in advance of the 3 attacking midfielders. We are having to play a defensive option (Bertrand or Ramires) in an AM slot to counteract the fact that Lampard bombs forward. This to me seems pointless and completely knocks the balance of the team.

Ramires is a top player but in the centre of the park. Bertrand is a top player at left back, he is pretty ineffective as an attacking option. We are completely out of balance at the moment.

Let us compare Chelsea with other team who play with double pivot

Manu

Scholes and cleverly : one mobile player who go forward and one player who stay back and boss the game

Arsenal

Diaby and Aretha: one mobile player and one passer who stay back

Real Madrid

See arsenal and Manu

What we have right now is similar to what city and to some extend what Tottenham has.

City

Yaya and rodwell. Two mobile players, toure bombs forward and rodwell tend to stay back.

The season that city can make it works because both of them are mobile players. What we have right now is lampard who was perfect to play yaya role but he is just too old and he is not good enough of a passer or playmaker to play Alonso/Scholes role. Meirelsr I thought played this role really well for us a couple weeks back. He can play well if u ask him to play just as box to box player not as a passer. And we have mikel who is a standard anchorman.

Currently we just don't have the perfect combination for double pivot. We can try mikel and ramires there but it all depends on how well ramires can pass the ball

[Sheva. 5,373]

http://thinkfootball...elseas-4-2-3-1/

A good article on the problems we have with the 4-2-3-1.

Lmao, everyone knows this except RDM and his assistants.

[communicate 2,703]

But he doesn't even create one chance a game 90% of the time.

I thought he made one good cross to hazard early in the 1st half

[Muzchap 8,966]

But he doesn't even create one chance a game 90% of the time.

THIS!!!

'communicate' - he DID NOT track back on numerous occassions - Bosingwa went past him! Sodon't talk shit about Ramires being an excellent defender on the wing - the guy looks lost and completely fucking clueless out there... WHY - because it aint his natural fucking position!

Edit: added communicate's name in - to make post clearer

Edit2 : Dam I sound angry! Apologies...

[Jase 43,479]

Lmao, everyone knows this except RDM and his assistants.

Can somebody send all these links to RDM or something?

[The Rising Sun 709]

For all those who know the game of CRICKET,

RDM's team selections are equivalent to a cricket coach, starting his batting line-up with all bowlers, so that they can wear out the new ball, so that the best batsman do not get out against the new ball. However, the top batsmen of any team take advantage of the new ball and are there to get the boundaries(goals).

Imagine if any coach in cricket's top team would do that against zimbabwe(QPR,reading). He would be smashed by the press and every professional on planet earth.

RDM likes playing a test match, with the opening batsmen as night watchmen.

It is plain wrong. Tactics and strategies like those are meant for moments where you are trying to stay in the game and are in trouble. We are neither in trouble, and dont need to stay in the game, we need to go for the win ..... and with confidence and style.

We have all the players there, why not play them? If we dont get the desired attractive football with results, then go back to Parking the Bus against the southamptons and QPRs of this world, but heck, atleast give the players that have come in to change our style a chance.

He plays 10 players from last season and 1 new player, that too with many players playing out of position. What The Fuck Is Going On?

Its like having ammunition, but choosing to try and dodge bullets, and on the odd chance, when the enemy is reloading, go slit his throat( counter attack).

We are better than that. Take out your bazooka RDM , and fire!!!!

[The Rising Sun 709]

Also, we need to play a formation with more than 1 Striker, as If he is not having a good game, we are in many ways, FUCKED.

Most top teams play with 2 CF's.

Dont know why we cant do the same.

We need to have more people forward who can do stuff. Sturridge and Torres upfront can be a healthy partnership.

Ramires cant do stuff, Bertrand can do a little more stuff, but not enough, Mikel is the no stuff guy on holiday. Lampard is capable of stuff but not as a DM. So if Mata is not clicking, and Hazard cant win the game for us, then its very likely that "We're Gona hava A Bad Time"( Russel Peters Style)

Sorry guys, couldnt think of an appropriate word for 'stuff'.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Loving The Rising Suns posts

Great work and spot-on

RDM is currently the equivalent of me shooting someone in Counter Strike Global Offensive and then reloading and getting shot by their mate!

Pants down moment

[SeB 1,281]

4231 is not meant to be that static. The 2 double pivot has to be flexible. They cannot jjust sit deep, they have to go forward when needed. I have no problem with lampard bombing forward when mikel stay back. One problem with mikel is that his passing is just too slow.

I double disagree on that. WHen he is in the last tier, his passing is as quick and accurate as the very best. When he's deeper, here's what I wrote on my own blog I launched recently: How Mikel’s “vulnerability” on the ball can help to break teams parking the bus

[The Rising Sun 709]

Loving The Rising Suns posts

Great work and spot-on

RDM is currently the equivalent of me shooting someone in Counter Strike Global Offensive and then reloading and getting shot by their mate!

Pants down moment

Haha Cheers !

Im waiting for The TC army to slam me for a "knee jerk" "plastic:" "you dont know football" and lastly "we're on top of the league" posts. They're Coming,

[Muzchap 8,966]

Haha Cheers !

Im waiting for The TC army to slam me for a "knee jerk" "plastic:" "you dont know football" and lastly "we're on top of the league" posts. They're Coming,

Yup, I been watching them since Kerry Dixon - but I'm still plastic + fake.

But everybody is entitled to their opinion and I'm just voicing mine - mostly out of frustration...

Good job there's a 'Not Like' button, I'd be in negative numbers