🇧🇷 Oscar

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

believe me. i am not missing the point. the point is physical exhaustion. but oscar has played less minutes for chelsea than hazard, willian matic, JT, iva, azpi.

if oscar has played confed in 2012, the european players have played the euros. if oscar played the WC, so did most of our other squad. the 1000 minutes extra we are talking about is over 3 seasons. not one. thats 3/4 games a season. and that 1000 minute stat is only for oscar, i am sure the other players too would have played 500-1000 minutes of football. the european players played the qualifiers while the brazilian team were playing useless friendlies, should that count for something.

this "oscar being physically exhausted" is just another poor excuse for oscar's poor performances. some one said that he did not play a pre-season last year (not entirely true) so his body was not well conditioned in jan (really?) and thus his poor show. did not willian have the exact same schedule as oscar?

Where were you when Willian was underperforming in the first half of the season?

You and I both know that had he not got injured at Arsenal and then in training he'd have had similar minutes to the aforementioned players. He only got dropped for one or two games and often was reinstated by half time because Ramires fucked up the team balance so badly. By the way, when he was on the pitch at Arsenal before he got KO'd, he was one of the best players on the pitch.

He's 23 years old. Willian is 26. Turan is 28. Oscar like it or not has fantastic potential (as a youngster some reckoned the was better than Eden) and therefore it'd be fucking stupidity to get rid of him in favour of an older, slower player who is not better than him now in any department while being 5 or 6 years older.

If he fucks up this season, then I agree, he should become a bench boy. But until then I see no reason why you hate him so much as a player. Especially when there are no better replacements on the market.

[didierforever 7,349]

Where were you when Willian was underperforming in the first half of the season?

You and I both know that had he not got injured at Arsenal and then in training he'd have had similar minutes to the aforementioned players. He only got dropped for one or two games and often was reinstated by half time because Ramires fucked up the team balance so badly. By the way, when he was on the pitch at Arsenal before he got KO'd, he was one of the best players on the pitch.

He's 23 years old. Willian is 26. Turan is 28. Oscar like it or not has fantastic potential (as a youngster some reckoned the was better than Eden) and therefore it'd be fucking stupidity to get rid of him in favour of an older, slower player who is not better than him now in any department while being 5 or 6 years older.

what potential? the potential thats been talked up about when he was 21? when he was 22? when he was 23? i dont see any improvement in him when he started playing with us 3 years ago. another poor excuse. if we so want to take out potential then lets play boga and musonda.

the point is he DID get injured. he got injured and did not get those minutes. just like the season before, where he fell off the wagon. the oscar that was injured and unable to play most of our games towards the end of the season had no problem playing the WC.

as for turan not being better.. thats just LOL talk. turan's close control, holding on to the ball is light years ahead of oscar. turan's passing and dribbling is also way better. oscar has better goal scoring, and pace than turan, thats it!!! please watch some of ATM's matches from the last season or the season where atm won the liga and were the finalists. he was just brilliant. something which can be said about oscar for like 5-10 matches per season. also, who is talking about getting rid of oscar. turan is a RW. oscar is a CAM. hazard-willian/oscar-willian/turan thats how we would line up. or we going to simply blindly keep hoping for oscar's supposed "potential" to come through one fine day and reject any player who threatens his position?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

what potential? the potential thats been talked up about when he was 21? when he was 22? when he was 23? i dont see any improvement in him when he started playing with us 3 years ago. another poor excuse. if we so want to take out potential then lets play boga and musonda.

the point is he DID get injured. he got injured and did not get those minutes. just like the season before, where he fell off the wagon. the oscar that was injured and unable to play most of our games towards the end of the season had no problem playing the WC.

as for turan not being better.. thats just LOL talk. turan's close control, holding on to the ball is light years ahead of oscar. turan's passing and dribbling is also way better. oscar has better goal scoring, and pace than turan, thats it!!! please watch some of ATM's matches from the last season or the season where atm won the liga and were the finalists. he was just brilliant. something which can be said about oscar for like 5-10 matches per season. also, who is talking about getting rid of oscar. turan is a RW. oscar is a CAM. hazard-willian/oscar-willian/turan thats how we would line up. or we going to simply blindly keep hoping for oscar's supposed "potential" to come through one fine day and reject any player who threatens his position?

Yes, that potential. Sorry, how good was Turan when he was 23? Oh wait, he was playing for Galatasary in a weak league. Oscar is playing for a title winning team in one of the toughest leagues in the world at the age of 23 but yet somehow he will never grow?

You're trying to tell me that Oscar is a bad player...because he got injured, but recovered in time to go to the world cup and reach the semi finals?

It's not blind hope either. There's no reason why Oscar won't keep getting better. Jose thinks he will. All Chelsea fans outside of here think he will. Brazil think he will. Juve thinks he will. If he's shit next season then I'll say he's shit. But in his first season here (when he was 21) he played something like 70 games for club and country.

Would Turan-Oscar-Hazard work do you reckon?

Edit; No, I lied about the games. It was actually over 80.

[didierforever 7,349]

Yes, that potential. Sorry, how good was Turan when he was 23? Oh wait, he was playing for Galatasary in a weak league. Oscar is playing for a title winning team in one of the toughest leagues in the world at the age of 23 but yet somehow he will never grow?

You're trying to tell me that Oscar is a bad player...because he got injured, but recovered in time to go to the world cup and reach the semi finals?

It's not blind hope either. There's no reason why Oscar won't keep getting better. Jose thinks he will. All Chelsea fans outside of here think he will. Brazil think he will. Juve thinks he will. If he's shit next season then I'll say he's shit. But in his first season here (when he was 21) he played something like 70 games for club and country.

Would Turan-Oscar-Hazard work do you reckon?

Edit; No, I lied about the games. It was actually over 80.

mikel was playing for chelsea when he was 23.22,21,24,25. where was matic? where was makelele? oh right celta vigo. so whats your point?

no, i am telling you to stop making stupid excuses. oscar got injured against arsenal. so what? a lot of players get injured. you want me to add the minutes he would have played but did not cos of the injury? as for the season before, i am a chelsea fan. if you believe everything that jose says. http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/jose-mourinho-world-cup-distraction-contributing-to-oscars-disappointing-chelsea-form-9322134.html, then believe this too. that too at a point where our title was on the line

so you are saying the number of games that he played 3 years ago is affecting him right now? the fact that he has played lesser amount of time than willian, hazard, matic, JT, iva, azpi in the last 2 seasons count for nothing? will those games that he played in 12-13 also affect his performances in 15-16 or there affect ended when the 14-15 season ended?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

mikel was playing for chelsea when he was 23.22,21,24,25. where was matic? where was makelele? oh right celta vigo. so whats your point?

no, i am telling you to stop making stupid excuses. oscar got injured against arsenal. so what? a lot of players get injured. you want me to add the minutes he would have played but did not cos of the injury? as for the season before, i am a chelsea fan. if you believe everything that jose says. http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/jose-mourinho-world-cup-distraction-contributing-to-oscars-disappointing-chelsea-form-9322134.html, then believe this too. that too at a point where our title was on the line

so you are saying the number of games that he played 3 years ago is affecting him right now? the fact that he has played lesser amount of time than willian, hazard, matic, JT, iva, azpi in the last 2 seasons count for nothing? will those games that he played in 12-13 also affect his performances in 15-16 or there affect ended when the 14-15 season ended?

No, but I just can't grasp how you can say Oscar's bad just because he got injuries in 2 successive seasons. That is pathetic reasoning. Pretty sure that it wasn't criticism from him either really. He said "There are things you can't resolve" - World Cup fever gripped many of the players in the tournament last summer.

"I think he was our best player for months, from August to November or December. He was absolutely fantastic. And after that he was up and down," Mourinho explained."He arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a down. Injuries, couldn't train, was trying to arrive to the game but didn't, was a doubt for the game, the game was too big to play with a doubtful player, so he arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a low."

So basically Mourinho saying that he would have liked him to be available but was too doubtful. Also said that in the first half of that season he was our best player. And before you use that against me, I think every Oscar fan acknowleges he needs to be more consistent - it's most of the reason why so many of us are judging him this season coming with a proper pre season.

As for Mikel; he was never a starter for us (except 2010-12) and it's not the same situation at all. When Mikel was 23 he wasn't a defensive midfielder. When Matic was 23 he wasn't a starter but was for Benfica. As for Makalele...I can't comment. I don't know enough about his youth career. None of your examples are attacking midfielders. You should realise, though, that injuries permitting he would have played the full season.

He played 63 games in 13/14 for C & C. Admittedly this season he played far fewer than his squad mates (41 C&C) but for a 21/22 year old it was still a lot of games for a youth.

For comparison, Eden's amount of games at 21, 22, 23 C & C

11/12: 57 (Oscar had 80 at the same age)

12/13: 71 (Oscar had 63)

13/14: 61 (41)

It's strange. Oscar has actually played less as he has got older. Had Oscar been fit for our last matches and for CA it would be closer to 55 but even then it's low. If it's overwork then next season those effects should be gone, if it's not then I'll agree with you.

[didierforever 7,349]

No, but I just can't grasp how you can say Oscar's bad just because he got injuries in 2 successive seasons. That is pathetic reasoning. Pretty sure that it wasn't criticism from him either really. He said "There are things you can't resolve" - World Cup fever gripped many of the players in the tournament last summer.

"I think he was our best player for months, from August to November or December. He was absolutely fantastic. And after that he was up and down," Mourinho explained."He arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a down. Injuries, couldn't train, was trying to arrive to the game but didn't, was a doubt for the game, the game was too big to play with a doubtful player, so he arrived in the crucial moment of the season in a low."

So basically Mourinho saying that he would have liked him to be available but was too doubtful. Also said that in the first half of that season he was our best player. And before you use that against me, I think every Oscar fan acknowleges he needs to be more consistent - it's most of the reason why so many of us are judging him this season coming with a proper pre season.

As for Mikel; he was never a starter for us (except 2010-12) and it's not the same situation at all. When Mikel was 23 he wasn't a defensive midfielder. When Matic was 23 he wasn't a starter but was for Benfica. As for Makalele...I can't comment. I don't know enough about his youth career. None of your examples are attacking midfielders. You should realise, though, that injuries permitting he would have played the full season.

He played 63 games in 13/14 for C & C. Admittedly this season he played far fewer than his squad mates (41 C&C) but for a 21/22 year old it was still a lot of games for a youth.

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

[JaKstone 307]

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

mikel in 2010 was 22, exact age that oscar is right now. also, what are you saying about injuries? where did i say getting injured makes him poor? why are you putting words in my mouth? he got injured. end of it. what else do you want me to do? like i asked previously? should i add the number of minutes to his playtime just cos he would have continued playing shit? so what if mikel is a DM? its an example of a player's growth and potential!!! its an example of a player playing at chelsea when he is 23 compared to a turk who was playing in turkey at 23. thats what my point is. it does not matter that arda was playing for gala. right now, he would make us a better team, he would definitely be the best RW out of willian, cuadrado, salah. the point then becomes, who is better at CAM between oscar and willian.

if u do agree about oscar's consistency, then what are we arguing about?

in 13-14, oscar played 3774 minutes for chelsea. willian played 3590 minutes for chelsea. why is the extra 180 minutes (2 games) such a massive issue. both had the same preseason too.

Because the difference is that you think he's shit all the time, while I think that he's fantastic (for his age) when he gets on form. (not having a pre season might have something to do with that, we'll see) And because Willian last season was literally the reverse; shit first half, good second half. He's also older than Oscar, so should in theory be able to play more games with less effects.

As for being a DM mattering, it's because at DM you need a higher degree of physical development as opposed to technical ability, while at AM it's the other way round - therefore the development curves are different. See Matic's development at Benfica.

Also, if Turan does come here then surely it will be at the expense of somebody...

[didierforever 7,349]

Because the difference is that you think he's shit all the time, while I think that he's fantastic (for his age) when he gets on form. (not having a pre season might have something to do with that, we'll see) And because Willian last season was literally the reverse; shit first half, good second half. He's also older than Oscar, so should in theory be able to play more games with less effects.

As for being a DM mattering, it's because at DM you need a higher degree of physical development as opposed to technical ability, while at AM it's the other way round - therefore the development curves are different. See Matic's development at Benfica.

Also, if Turan does come here then surely it will be at the expense of somebody...

the "somebody" would undoubtedly be cuadrado or salah. why would we sell oscar?

no, i dont think he is shit all the time. but thats that. i think he is a good player but no where near what people hype him to be. when "player X" is on form, he will always be a joy to watch, even if player X = mikel. but the difference between a world class player or the way people expect oscar and his "potential" to carry out, is that those players are good even when not in form. they make the difference. when oscar is poor, he is poor.

fair enough point about DMs.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

the "somebody" would undoubtedly be cuadrado or salah. why would we sell oscar?

no, i dont think he is shit all the time. but thats that. i think he is a good player but no where near what people hype him to be. when "player X" is on form, he will always be a joy to watch, even if player X = mikel. but the difference between a world class player or the way people expect oscar and his "potential" to carry out, is that those players are good even when not in form. they make the difference. when oscar is poor, he is poor.

fair enough point about DMs.

I hope he'll get better or even just more consistent. He clearly has the potential, don't you think?

The crossroads is clearly coming up, though. If he does neither of the above next season he will be sold if the right players are available.

[lionsden 4,689]

How does one measure potential. what criteria is being used here. If it's talent, it's general consensus that oscar doesn't particularly excel at anything in particular, a jack of all trade if you will and if the criteria is based on how good he is for his age compared to other players, he's one of the most inconsistent players around so He's neither one of the most talented players nor one of the most consistent in his age group, He hasn't shown any sign of growth and improvement and he isn't a great athlete either so what is this potential based on exactly?.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

How does one measure potential. what criteria is being used here. If it's talent, it's general consensus that oscar doesn't particularly excel at anything in particular, a jack of all trade if you will and if the criteria is based on how good he is for his age compared to other players, he's one of the most inconsistent players around so He's neither one of the most talented players nor one of the most consistent in his age group, He hasn't shown any sign of growth and improvement and he isn't a great athlete either so what is this potential based on exactly?.

Improving his consistency would make him much better before he even improves as a player, which he will.

He could also bulk up. It's there, but if you prefer not to believe then that's your choice.

[lionsden 4,689]

Improving his consistency would make him much better before he even improves as a player, which he will.

He could also bulk up. It's there, but if you prefer not to believe then that's your choice.

And this is based on what exactly. your gut feeling?

He's being here for 3 seasons, going on fourth and has shown no sign of improvement or growth, so please forgive those that are not exactly brimming with confidence that oscar will one day develop into a player that's good enough for a top team like Chelsea.

Let me ask you a very simple question, do you honestly believe Oscar will still be an integral part of the team (or even in the team at all) if he was at any of the other big/elite teams in Europe showing the same level of inconsistency that he shown for the last 3 years?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

And this is based on what exactly. your gut feeling?

He's being here for 3 seasons, going on fourth and has shown no sign of improvement or growth, so please forgive those that are not exactly brimming with confidence that oscar will one day become a player that's good enough for a top team like Chelsea.

It's not possible with the coaching system around you, the players around you and the game time that Oscar gets not to improve and learn from them.

If he's not good enough for Chelsea, then now you can justify to me how Willian, Cuadrado, and Ramires are.

[lionsden 4,689]

It's not possible with the coaching system around you, the players around you and the game time that Oscar gets not to improve and learn from them.

If he's not good enough for Chelsea, then now you can justify to me how Willian, Cuadrado, and Ramires are.

So why hasn't he improved in 3 years then?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

So why hasn't he improved in 3 years then?

His defensive game has improved lots.

How are Willian, Cuadrado, Ramires, and Mikel Chelsea material if Oscar isn't?

[lionsden 4,689]

His defensive game has improved lots.

How are Willian, Cuadrado, Ramires, and Mikel Chelsea material if Oscar isn't?

Classic deflection tactics from Oscar apologists. Why must other players be drag into discussion about Oscar. You can say Oscar is very inconsistent and the reply would be "well William too is inconsistent", what does that have to donwith the original comment.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Damn, I really thought Oscar would step up when Mata was sold.. We just haven't seen the magic he showed in Juve consistently or, and even worse, in any frequency.

[Oscar 441]

So why hasn't he improved in 3 years then?

Oscar has improved.

His free kicking ability is the best on the team. His pressing is the best on the team. His movement is the best on the team.

His workrate has improved as well.

[Oscar 441]

Damn, I really thought Oscar would step up when Mata was sold.. We just haven't seen the magic he showed in Juve consistently or, and even worse, in any frequency.

But, it's different manager and different role for Oscar like how he had to adapt from being brazil n10 to essentially allowing Neymar to play a one man game.