Rumoured Luke Shaw

[Reddish-Blue 2,513]

For every van Nistelrooy there is a Kezman, and for every van Persie there is an Alfonso Alves.... we could play this game all day.

Where's the link between Van Persie and Afonso Alves?

They were at completely different stages of development..

Van Persie was signed as a 21 year old and developed by Arsenal...Afonso signed for Boro after one great season in the dutch league.

[DmitryCFC 4]

I think fit the bill would Chelsea , Cole will soon graduate career ,and even an Englishman who is a fan of the club

[The Skipper 20,609]

Van nistelrooy, Suarez, Van Persie, Arjen Robben, van der sar, Jan vertonghen, Alex (ex blue) amongst host of others didn't seem to struggle that much with the transition. The automatic dismissal of eredivisie talent or players doing well in that league is getting old.

The Eredivisie is not as strong as it used to be. RVN was signed by United ages ago when it was still a pretty respectable league, likewise with Van Der Sar.

RVP and Robben did okay in the league but were signed because of their huge potential more than their performances.

Vertonghen (who is overrated) and Alex (who was part of a very strong PSV side that consistently qualified for knockout stages in the CL) are the only recent defenders who have made a good transition to the PL.

I don't think it's viable to use someone's success in the Eredivisie to prove that one is better than someone who has been playing well consistently in the PL. Of course there are talents there as showcased with the likes of Suarez and Strootman in more recent years but it's the exception rather than the norm.

It should speak volumes that Piazon is one of the best players there right now.

I'm not saying PVA is bad, offensively the guy is brilliant but we've always known that. What he hasn't really been tested on however is his defensive game - something I'm still skeptical about as he hasn't really shown great improvements there (it's hard to do that when you're in the Eredivisie to begin with).

[Rekin 835]

The way people constantly denounce players like PVA, Bertrand and Thorgan Hazard on here yet habitually back the likes of McEachran and Chalobah baffles me.

PVA is quality. He's quite clearly an offensive juggernaut and miles better than Shaw on that end as well as blessed with exceptional athleticism and pace. His defending is inconsistent but the same could be said of Marcelo and Ashley Cole before Mourinho. Real clubs at least attempt to develop and groom their youth.

Shaw is good but he's getting overrated on here because of his childhood team. I think Bertrand is the better defender.

If Mourinho was so good at helping Cole and Marcelo develop, how come he has not even bothered to try with Bertrand and loaned him out? Why did he let PVA stay in Vitesse? Why does he now instead play a RB at LB?

It is obvious for anyone to see that Mourinho is not happy with how the LB looks today and will surely want to do something about in it the summer. Shaw is a very good alternative.

If you at the age of 17/18 can hold a regular starting spot (in a defensive position, even better) in a mid-table PL team and still receive praise I think it is a very good sign of things to come. What Shaw needs now is a world-class coach that can pin-point the areas in which he needs to develop and help him through it.

[lionsden 4,689]

For every van Nistelrooy there is a Kezman, and for every van Persie there is an Alfonso Alves.... we could play this game all day.

So the ratio of success to failure is around 1:1 then. thats good enough for me and the risk is certainly not great enough to favour Shaw over PVA.. . .the risk will have to be considerably higher for the snubbing of eredivisie talents to be justified,

And if you really want to play that game for every Wayne Rooney, there's a Francis Jeffers and for every Steve Mcmanaman there's a Jermaine pennant.

[lionsden 4,689]

The Eredivisie is not as strong as it used to be. RVN was signed by United ages ago when it was still a pretty respectable league, likewise with Van Der Sar.

RVP and Robben did okay in the league but were signed because of their huge potential more than their performances.

Vertonghen (who is overrated) and Alex (who was part of a very strong PSV side that consistently qualified for knockout stages in the CL) are the only recent defenders who have made a good transition to the PL.

I don't think it's viable to use someone's success in the Eredivisie to prove that one is better than someone who has been playing well consistently in the PL. Of course there are talents there as showcased with the likes of Suarez and Strootman in more recent years but it's the exception rather than the norm.

It should speak volumes that Piazon is one of the best players there right now.

I'm not saying PVA is bad, offensively the guy is brilliant but we've always known that. What he hasn't really been tested on however is his defensive game - something I'm still skeptical about as he hasn't really shown great improvements there (it's hard to do that when you're in the Eredivisie to begin with).

Which is my point all along. why can't PVA be the exception as well? Besides his obvious talent, he's shown tons of improvement in his game and is regarded as arguably the best defender in that league. Some people are just unnecessarily closed minded and think football is that black and white.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So the ratio of success to failure is around 1:1 then. thats good enough for me and the risk is certainly not great enough to favour Shaw over PVA.. . .the risk will have to be considerably higher for the snubbing of eredivisie talents to be justified,

And if you really want to play that game for every Wayne Rooney, there's a Francis Jeffers and for every Steve Mcmanaman there's a Jermaine pennant.

There were reports that Van Aanholt was about to be sold to Twente last summer so I'm not entirely sure how realistic it is that he'll return to us any time soon. Let's put him into context as well - he's older than Eden Hazard, Oscar and Lukaku yet he only has one international cap to his name and is plying his trade in the Dutch league.

Luke Shaw is 5 years younger, will almost certainly get an England cap this year, is a regular in a Premier League side who are doing well and is on the radar of every big club in this league.

If Van Aanholt wasn't a Chelsea player then he wouldn't even be in the discussion.

[lionsden 4,689]

There were reports that Van Aanholt was about to be sold to Twente last summer so I'm not entirely sure how realistic it is that he'll return to us any time soon. Let's put him into context as well - he's older than Eden Hazard, Oscar and Lukaku yet he only has one international cap to his name and is plying his trade in the Dutch league.

Luke Shaw is 5 years younger, will almost certainly get an England cap this year, is a regular in a Premier League side who are doing well and is on the radar of every big club in this league.

If Van Aanholt wasn't a Chelsea player then he wouldn't even be in the discussion.

I understand what you are saying but there's no way to justify spending that much money on

1) A fullback. How many fullbacks in history have gone for £30m plus?

2) He's nothing more than a potential and you never spend such amount on potentials. that's the type of figures established defenders who are in their prime command. Not an 18 year old.

If people are that desperate for a new left back to replace Cole instead of giving PVA a chance and bringing Bertrand back and I would rather we go for Coentrao who is superior to Shaw and obviously more experienced and would cost less than £30m.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I understand what you are saying but there's no way to justify spending that much money on

1) A fullback. How many fullbacks in history have gone for £30m plus?

2) He's nothing more than a potential and you never spend such amount on potentials. that's the type of figures established defenders who are in their prime command. Not an 18 year old.

If people are that desperate for a new left back to replace Cole instead of giving PVA a chance and bringing Bertrand back and I would rather we go for Coentrao who is superior to Shaw and obviously more experienced and would cost less than £30m.

I doubt he'll go for £30 million. £22 million is a more realistic figure and then you're basing that on more than a decade of consistency at left-back. Even over ten years that's just £2 million per year (plus wages) which I think we'd have all agreed on for someone like Cole.

Plus he's not just potential. He'd immediately make our first XI better, not just giving us a better left-back than we already have but enabling us to play Azpi at right-back more often. We committed up to £18 million to Lukaku for potential. We spent £30 million on Hazard when he wasn't a £30 million player, but had the potential to be. Same goes for Oscar. Luke Shaw is a good defender, but you're paying for what he could become and the fact that he's English and in demand.

Van Aanholt probably isn't in the discussion and clearly Mourinho doesn't fancy Bertrand at left-back for whatever reason. But clearly we're not alone in wanting to get Shaw as every big club has been linked with him.

[Joshybizzle 109]

I honestly think one of the driving factors behind us chasing Shaw, other than being a very bright talent, would be that our home grown contingent are coming to the end of their careers, without Cole, Lamps and JT we've got just Gary Cahill who's likely to be starting and i know football goes well beyond nationalities but it'd be nice to keep that English backbone in the squad, so why not sign the next Ashley Cole

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Only on TalkChelsea is 23 old.

Even if we don't bring him back next season PVA will be a beast elsewhere. Love that guys style of play.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Only on TalkChelsea is 23 old.

Even if we don't bring him back next season PVA will be a beast elsewhere. Love that guys style of play.

23 isn't old but people need to recognise there's a reason why he's 23 and still not established in a top league. Similarly there's a reason why Shaw was a first-teamer in a Premier League side at 17 and it's not just because he was at Southampton.

Is Van Aanholt another player you're hoping will come back with his new team and destroy us then?

[Gilvorak 3,734]

23 isn't old but people need to recognise there's a reason why he's 23 and still not established in a top league. Similarly there's a reason why Shaw was a first-teamer in a Premier League side at 17 and it's not just because he was at Southampton.

Is Van Aanholt another player you're hoping will come back with his new team and destroy us then?

What a flawed way of thinking.

Van Aanholt isn't established in a Top League because he had Ashley Cole, Ryan Bertrand (who played in a CL final) and the £18m man Zhirkov in front of him not to mention the relentless managerial instability at the club. Since Carlo (who rated him left) AVB, Rafa Benitez & Jose have all been our managers at one point or another.

Regardless of the League he's playing in what's the undeniable truth is that PVA is extremely gifted offensively. More than Cole, Shaw, Bertrand etc. We won't know about his defense until he's tested here.

Think this was his debut. I distinctly remember him tearing Newcastle apart that season.

Matic suffered a similar fate yet 3 years later he's worth £20m+.

[Tomo 21,751]

Whats all this sudden hype about PVA? he may have pace and occasionally hit a beauty but his defending is cringeworthy, Leicester fans couldn't stand him and Martinez froze him out at Wigan after 3 games.

We got rid off Bosingwa, the last thing we need is the left back version.

[Tomo 21,751]

What a flawed way of thinking.

Van Aanholt isn't established in a Top League because he had Ashley Cole, Ryan Bertrand (who played in a CL final) and the £18m man Zhirkov in front of him not to mention the relentless managerial instability at the club. Since Carlo (who rated him left) AVB, Rafa Benitez & Jose have all been our managers at one point or another.

Regardless of the League he's playing in what's the undeniable truth is that PVA is extremely gifted offensively. More than Cole, Shaw, Bertrand etc. We won't know about his defense until he's tested here.

Think this was his debut. I distinctly remember him tearing Newcastle apart that season.

Matic suffered a similar fate yet 3 years later he's worth £20m+.

Was that in the Carling Cup when we conceded 4 and he let Nile Ranger in behind him for one of them?

Scoring and assisting one is pointless if you let in 4.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Whats all this sudden hype about PVA? he may have pace and occasionally hit a beauty but his defending is cringeworthy, Leicester fans couldn't stand him and Martinez froze him out at Wigan after 3 games.

We got rid off Bosingwa, the last thing we need is the left back version.

http://www.cockneylatic.co.uk/fourm/5-cockney-latic-main-forum/76176-van-aanholt?limitstart=0

Quick google search and it looks like Wigan fans rated him but he had a personal falling out with Martinez.

Nevermind the fact that this was 3 years ago while he was still only 20.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Was that in the Carling Cup when we conceded 4 and he let Nile Ranger in behind him for one of them?

Scoring and assisting one is pointless if you let in 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a7-xsmCEdU

Watch the highlights yourself. He was at fault for Ranger's goal but the remaining 3 (Ryan Taylor FK, Paul Ferreira error, Bruma losing Ameobi on a set piece assignment) were hardly his fault. Besides we were down to 9 men for the majority of that game and were only a Ferreira shot that hit the post away from winning it.

[Tomo 21,751]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a7-xsmCEdU

Watch the highlights yourself. He was at fault for Ranger's goal but the remaining 3 (Ryan Taylor FK, Paul Ferreira error, Bruma losing Ameobi on a set piece assignment) were hardly his fault. Besides we were down to 9 men for the majority of that game and were only a Ferreira shot that hit the post away from winning it.

I kept a close eye that night and yes only one off the goals were his doing i felt his positional sense was terrible even for someone his age.

The reason i kept a close eye that night is because like you now i liked his game going forward and wanted to see what he was like at the back.

Im usually against turning defenders into mids but maybe the Bale route might be worth considering with him?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Which is my point all along. why can't PVA be the exception as well? Besides his obvious talent, he's shown tons of improvement in his game and is regarded as arguably the best defender in that league. Some people are just unnecessarily closed minded and think football is that black and white.

He's definitely more matured in his game but he isn't as good as you're making him out to be. He's been very influential for Vitesse due to his great attacking ability and Vitesse's system of overlapping fullbacks but defensively he still gets found out, even in the Eredivisie. That's my main problem with him - I'm not very sure he's able to stay solid defensively in the PL. He's one of the better players but not the best because his defensive game isn't as complete as his attacking game.

If we are selling Bertrand I would like him back though. I wouldn't mind having something like Shaw/PVA as the LB options. Doubt the club are thinking along those lines though.

[The only place to be 11,313]

What a flawed way of thinking.

Van Aanholt isn't established in a Top League because he had Ashley Cole, Ryan Bertrand (who played in a CL final)

Bertrand played as a makeshift left-winger in the final.

Bosingwa also played in that final, as did a completely past-it Malouda....oh and we were a pretty poor team then.

Regardless of the League he's playing in what's the undeniable truth is that PVA is extremely gifted offensively. More than Cole, Shaw, Bertrand etc. We won't know about his defense until he's tested here.

He might be gifted in an attacking sense but he's 23 and you can't say whether or not he's got a good enough defence to be tried here. It's a gamble to not go for a talent like Shaw because you think a 23 year old who has never done a single remarkable thing on a decent stage might be good enough....

oh and here's a Youtube video of him doing well in a game in which we conceded 4 goals at home, lost and in which we used Gael Kakuta (shit, why did we sign Salah when we've still got Kakuta on our books???).