The Illuminati Thread

[Justin_3d 1,140]

Whatever floats your boat

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

So you assume bigotry anywhere you feel like? Do point out in any of my 2 posts implied reference to nationality/religion or any other kind of anti-semetic sentiments. Your being presumptuous and frankly offensive will manage not only to lower the level of the discussion (which I see you don't mind) but also to get ignored in whatever genuine on-topic point you are trying to make.

Playing the "anti-semite" card is much more sickening than anything I've read in this thread.

You simply do not get it and likely are not interested in ever getting it. Using the Rothschilds as an example, not only an example, your only example of control of the media or governments is inherently anti-Semitic. It is the same thing, literally the exact same thing, that has been used for the last 200 years of anti-Semitism. So what if millions of Jews have been persecuted and murdered based on the idea of Jewish control of governments? So what if what you were saying is the exact same thing Nazis used in propaganda posters and movies to justify genocide? That's not offensive. What's offensive is being called out on it. It's like saying "some people spread diseases, like Africans" and then saying "oh, I didn't say only Africans and you are the one bringing race into it" and you saying I'm a racist is far more offensive. No, it isn't. You said something that was anti-Semitic and you want to get angry at me for calling you out on it. Unfortunately, this type of anti-Semitism always rears its head when there are depressions in the world because countries don't want to accept that they are at fault for their own fiscal mess. It isn't us, it has to be some secret cabal of Jewish bankers. This is conspiracy theories at their core. They choose fantasy over fact, prejudice over truth.

[Kostas 1,468]

Aren't you a treat to have a conversation with? I will not have being called a bigot and anti-Semitic due to a post promoting skepticism. Reported and the first person to join my ignore list since mid2010. Don't give up your "crusade" as the supporters of Illuminati bs have to have someone to maintain their retarded debates.

Your laughable rant on international "rankings" (particularly the Democracy one) and your recession dig at the shithole I live in only serve to underline what a waste of time discussing with you was.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Laughable rankings? You mean the Democracy Index? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#2011_rankings Yeah, laughable. I mean who's to say that Yemen doesn't have a stronger Democracy than Sweden, right? Press freedom index? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index. That's not important at all! Government controlled media versus free media? What's the difference? These are real numbers taken from legitimate sources not that you care about such things. Your backing of Cholou's anti-Semitic screed is hardly surprising and neither is your mock outrage.

[Kezza 1,965]

Da fuk did I just read??

Almost as fucked up as people saying the earthquake in my city was man made so the country will go into debt and have to sell its state owned enterprises..

I'm loving life, so whoever is 'controlling' it is doing a really good job

[capriccioso 2,545]

Lets not jump to conclusions here eh justin? Religion is non existent, its fake, its a fairy tale, there is no higher being, there is no way to prove what i just said wrong either.

Religion and church are biggest evil in the world, remember that. And if Iluminati is real, then they are in close relationship with religion and shits. But let's call it religion. I just can not understand how everyone is hypnotized with something there's not even ONE evidence in whole history of this world about.

"I think some cool motherfu.ker sat down a long time ago and said: Let's figure out a way to control people. And then they came up with the Bible."

That's it. Just recognize and think.

Oh stop it now

[capriccioso 2,545]

I grew up and live in the country with the 6th best education system, 10th best press freedom, and the 8th ranked Democracy. Lebanon is 95th in Education, 93rd in press freedom, and 94th in Democracy, but it's not Lebanon who doesn't get it, it's us Westerners.

I grew up and live in the 2nd highest developed country in the world. As Australia ranks above Canada I can automatically rubbish your argument. Arabs hate Israelis because they took their land. And no matter what you say back, my argument is better than yours because Australia is number 2, Canada is number 6. Because of the discrepancy in ranking I'm automatically superior to you and nothing you say can be taken as truth if I say something different.

That's basically what you said to Choulo. The HDI quality of a country and it's relative levels of development have nothing to do with the intelligence of the people there. Instead of saying every word that comes out of a Lebanese's mouth is rubbish because Canada is 89 spots ahead of Lebanon, debunk his argument properly.

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I grew up and live in the 2nd highest developed country in the world. As Australia ranks above Canada I can automatically rubbish your argument. Arabs hate Israelis because they took their land. And no matter what you say back, my argument is better than yours because Australia is number 2, Canada is number 6. Because of the discrepancy in ranking I'm automatically superior to you and nothing you say can be taken as truth if I say something different.

That's basically what you said to Choulo. The HDI quality of a country and it's relative levels of development have nothing to do with the intelligence of the people there. Instead of saying every word that comes out of a Lebanese's mouth is rubbish because Canada is 89 spots ahead of Lebanon, debunk his argument properly.

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

You are not a historian or you would not say such utter nonsense.Well, not any historian worth a shit anyway. No historian in the world thinks that living in close proximity to the event makes you an expert in it. In fact, it does exactly the opposite as it blinds people from analysing historical events with the proper perspective. At best, you are in first year in Uni and have been introduced to Edward Said and think that Orienatlism is the be all and and all of histories although I doubt you're even at that level. The best historians on subjects rarely even lived in the eras they write about. You think every single Lebanese person knows more about Israel/Palestine than any single westerner Not even that but more than single Israeli? That's just moronic. And even as for living through events, do you really think for a second that Chulou is 100 years old and has seen all aspects of the conflict? And living in Lebanon is removed from the Palestinian//Israeli conflict. I have actually lived in Israel and the West Bank. I have Israeli and Palestinian friends.I guarantee I know more about the conflict both from historical perspective and from personal stories there than either you or him. Why not ask one of the Israelis that post here if they are the lying scum that Chulou says they are or that you say they are but you already believe they are or you wouldn't be backing what Choulu said.The quality of education in a country have a tremendous amount to do with the education and knowledge of a people in a country. Conspiracy theories abound in countries that are closed off from knowledge and are less rampant in countries with free presses. And you know that comparing Canada and AUstrali's education systems to that of Lebanon is ridiculous. People in Lebanon has extremely limited access to real news or real history when it comes to the Middle East.

The fact that you are supporting a man who claims that Jews control the media and politics says enough about where your opinion lies. Your outrage is not directed at the obvious (not even hidden in the least) virulent anti-Semitism but rather some ignorant rant about how living in an area automatically makes you an expert on everything that happens within thousands of miles. Unfortunately, this goes to show how prevalent and accepted anti-Semitism is.

[KonohasOrangeFlash 2,607]

Life is good when you're an Atheist

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

He is from the Middle East. The Lebanese sided with the Arabs in the conflict. He knows more about it than you do, by default. He is a primary source of information, he doesn't have to look up scholarly articles or seek out information at all, he can gather it by himself. Westerners who don't live in Asia will never understand Asia so its best for all of you to butt out and leave our own business to us.

I am a historian, we study this for a living. A person who has experienced an event, even the most uneducated, illiterate person, his opinion and information on the subject is far, far more valuable than any expert who has not lived through and seen that event first hand. Choluo has a degree from University, he is educated, that, combined with the fact that he has lived through the conflict makes his opinion automatically worth more than yours.

In fact, I want to go further on this because this has become about the Palestinian/Israel conflict but that's not what bothered me about the original post. Choulou's original offensive post was about Jewish control over governments, finance, and media. If you believe that only people living in the area under discussion can know about certain topics, what the hell can a Lebanese person know about Jews? There are literally no Jews in Lebanon. There is no Jewish control over anything in Lebanon. By your own logic, Choulo knows nothing about this and has no right to write about it.

Also, about the absurdity of needing to live in a place and time to understand it. The Independent newspaper in England did a feature on their 10 best history books. You know how many were written by people who lived in the period and country of which they were writing? None. Not one. The best book on the American Civil War is generally thought to be "The Battle Cry of Freedom" written over 100 years after the war ended. The most important book of Roman history "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was written by Edward Gibbon in the18th century in England. Darwin's Origin of the Species is a scientific history of the world, but since he wasn't alive thousands of years ago in the primordial ooze, his work should be dismissed. Etc...There are history books written by people living through period and some of them amazing (Churchill's Second World War books being prime examples but then again Churchill was privy to rather a great deal of inside information) but history is generally retrospective.

Also, I don't understand how you can go on and on about Jewish/Zionist conspiracies and also support a team owned by a Jewish Zionist.

Life is good when you're an Atheist

I am an atheist. Not sure how anybody could really be anything else but I think it's due to my atheism that bigotry drives me so crazy. Religion causes people to think they are special and different and it's only through understanding that we're all the same that we can overcome such bullshit.

[capriccioso 2,545]

In fact, I want to go further on this because this has become about the Palestinian/Israel conflict but that's not what bothered me about the original post. Choulou's original offensive post was about Jewish control over governments, finance, and media. If you believe that only people living in the area under discussion can know about certain topics, what the hell can a Lebanese person know about Jews? There are literally no Jews in Lebanon. There is no Jewish control over anything in Lebanon. By your own logic, Choulo knows nothing about this and has no right to write about it.

Also, about the absurdity of needing to live in a place and time to understand it. The Independent newspaper in England did a feature on their 10 best history books. You know how many were written by people who lived in the period and country of which they were writing? None. Not one. The best book on the American Civil War is generally thought to be "The Battle Cry of Freedom" written over 100 years after the war ended. The most important book of Roman history "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was written by Edward Gibbon in the18th century in England. Darwin's Origin of the Species is a scientific history of the world, but since he wasn't alive thousands of years ago in the primordial ooze, his work should be dismissed. Etc...There are history books written by people living through period and some of them amazing (Churchill's Second World War books being prime examples but then again Churchill was privy to rather a great deal of inside information) but history is generally retrospective.

Also, I don't understand how you can go on and on about Jewish/Zionist conspiracies and also support a team owned by a Jewish Zionist.

I am an atheist. Not sure how anybody could really be anything else but I think it's due to my atheism that bigotry drives me so crazy. Religion causes people to think they are special and different and it's only through understanding that we're all the same that we can overcome such bullshit.

Cool story, bro, tell it again to someone who cares. Now fuck off with your Canadian shithouse education system, I'm Australian and we're second so I'm automatically right and you're automatically wrong.

And for the record, though I'm a first year in uni I was accelerated through the history program in high school; did some tertiary accredited courses, and I'm about to complete my major in Soviet Studies by next November.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

And for the record, though I'm a first year in uni I was accelerated through the history program in high school; did some tertiary accredited courses, and I'm about to complete my major in Soviet Studies by next November.

Cap, it annoys me when you give answers like that which are kind of childish, with the whole 'cool story bro'. He made his point in a fairly detailed way, you could do the same back?

[capriccioso 2,545]

Cap, it annoys me when you give answers like that which are kind of childish, with the whole 'cool story bro'. He made his point in a fairly detailed way, you could do the same back?

No, because I'm not interested. I stepped in to defend Choulo and I believe I've done that. Arabs hate Jews and as an Arab he'll know a lot more about why they hate Jews than any of us. They're not Russian/Eastern European/German, they don't think that Jews are out to get/already have control over the world, they just don't like them because they took their land.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

And for the record, though I'm a first year in uni I was accelerated through the history program in high school; did some tertiary accredited courses, and I'm about to complete my major in Soviet Studies by next November.

What's the point? According to your own logic, you didn't live through the Soviet Era and you're from Australia, so you can't possibly know anything about it and since I was alive when the Soviet Union was around, I will always know more than you about it than you. To take your absurd assertion to even a further degree, if I say "The Soviet Union had 7 people in it, was the size of a small car, and everyone only ate chocolate" you can't disagree with me because in your version of history, fact and reality has been replaced entirely by happening to live in the general region and/or time of an event.

No, because I'm not interested. I stepped in to defend Choulo and I believe I've done that. Arabs hate Jews and as an Arab he'll know a lot more about why they hate Jews than any of us. They're not Russian/Eastern European/German, they don't think that Jews are out to get/already have control over the world, they just don't like them because they took their land.

So, let me get get this straight. You're defending Chulou because you think his hatred of Jews is rational? If someone told you: " I hate blacks but I have a good reason" would you say "well, he knows why he hates black people more than anyone else, so I am going to defend him"? It's just madness. Bigotry must be fought everywhere not justified. Racism is not rational. Racism is learned behaviour based on ignorance.

Leaving aside the historical problems with your justification (the current land of Israel was never part of Lebanon, the hypocrisy of the horrible treatment of Palestinians by Lebanon itself, the fact that the creation of countries with one group moving in and displacing another is pretty much how every single country in the world was created-hell you're Australian, did your ancestors get the Aboriginal invitation that said "hey Europeans, please, come steal our land"? , the list is almost endless..), the moral factor is astonishing. You are justifying anti-Semitism because Chulou is an Arab. You are saying, in fact, that all Arabs have the right to hate Jews because Israel exists. If you are going to justify bigotry based on historical events, then you are justifying infinite levels of it. Africans can loathe Europeans forever, Americans can hate Arabs, English people can hate Arabs, The Spanish can hate Arabs. Arabs can hate the Americans and English, Aboriginal peoples can preach hate and violence against Australians, Canadians, Americans, Mexicans...hell, the entire world can just be one big cauldron of justifiable bigotry.

The world is rife with historical injustices, we need to move on to practical solutions instead of constant fighting because something happened 100 years ago that you don't like. You're not old enough to remember The Troubles (and I wasn't alive for the worst of it), but this is a perfect example of the choices you make between justifying hatred and moving towards the future. The problems have generally ceased because both sides have made the right choice. The Queen shook hands with a former IRA commander, Martin McGuinnis this week. The IRA murdered her cousin who was also her son's mentor. It was a horrible thing for England and for the Queen personally. The British government jailed and killed IRA members including friends of McGuinnis. The Troubles killed thousands of civilians in Northern Ireland and in England. Both sides are "justified" hating each other for ever but what good does that do?

[LDN Blue 7,903]

No, because I'm not interested. I stepped in to defend Choulo and I believe I've done that. Arabs hate Jews and as an Arab he'll know a lot more about why they hate Jews than any of us. They're not Russian/Eastern European/German, they don't think that Jews are out to get/already have control over the world, they just don't like them because they took their land.

We'll I'd suggest you tone it down. First of all Arabs don't hate Jews, they hate the Zionist movement, there's a massive difference.

[Ramzi 233]

We'll I'd suggest you tone it down. First of all Arabs don't hate Jews, they hate the Zionist movement, there's a massive difference.

Perfectly explained, as a Palestinian (Half Polish ) Arab myself, I have come to know many Jews that i feel are some of the best people I ever met, But i feel the greed and need for power, and the success at which they achieve this with the world seemingly blind to the fact, is what truly makes me hate Zionists, it's not just that they took over Palestine, it's that feeling that you are being taken advantage of without any way to defend yourself that really irks me. But life is not fair and you must live with what you have and make the best of it.

[Naked Mole Rat 437]

We can't prove it that its real but we can't prove it's fake either.

If you can't find any evidence to support it, your belief is irrational, and the logical thing to do is to abandon it. Simple as that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I know I said I won't reply anymore but let me clear a couple of things out:

Just for the record, I have nothing against Jews, as LDN said, I hate Zionists. Zionism is completely different than Judaism, which was the point in my original post. Only people who insist to see racism in everyone (doesn't make them the racists?) say they are the same.

Like when I was giving examples on powerful Zionists who influenced world politics, I named, completely randomly, Henry Kissinger, who happens to be a Jew, and Lord Blfour, who happens to be Christian. But TorontoChelsea only chose to comment on Kissinger to say that I am racist.

And on another note, since the main argument is that something happened a 100 years ago then Arabs should forget it, let me explain that you are completely wrong on several levels:

First: It was 64 years ago not 100.

Second: And most importantly, it is not something that "happened" 64 years ago, it is an onslaught that has begun 64 years ago and is still going on. Since 1948, what is known as the State of Israel has killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the most horrendous ways such as air-strikes on unarmed civilians. They have engaged in numerous wars and attempted to occupy numerous Arabian countries. Just yesterday here in Lebanon they crossed the border and kidnapped a shepherd just because they can.

And PS, just for accuracy, there were Jews in Lebanon up until the 80s, and there are Jews in numerous other Arabian countries (Jordan, Egypt...etc).

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Whether you're Arab, Jewish, Christian, any other faith or atheist, the fact is it's plain and simple to see that the occupation of Palestine is illegal.

The original settlement was agreed upon by both Israel and Palestine and the former simply took advantage while the world idly looked on. It's the most disgusting thing when these Zionists claim the holocaust as justification for this, because the Palestenian people are going through their own version.

I think Norman Finkelstein told it well,

[manpe 10,861]

Oh my god