🇧🇪 Eden Hazard

[Tautvix 1,321]

58 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

I'm worried about his lack of motivation when playing the lesser teams to be fair. He's always playing at his best against the big sides, but takes his foot off the pedal against the smaller teams. Think there is no pride in macking a mockery out of Arsenal's defence like he did two weeks ago if you are just a passenger against Burnley and Wolves. Needs to understand that if he is to step to the next level he must play a whole lot better against the lesser teams.

Cristiano Ronaldo is the player he is now by constantly destroying the tin pot teams, especially in Champions League. He might go missing in the latter stages of the competitions, but at least he makes fun of all them Swedish and Polish amateurs and his goalscoring record stays put. 

I think we also need to realise that Hazard is not gonna step to next level. For me he doesn't look a much different player when he was in his 1st season. Hazard is now 26 years old, it's his peak, not gonna improve a lot now... 

[Unionjack 7,532]

14 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Look if you wanna criticize him for the poor passes then fair enough but blaming him for "not touching the ball for long periods of the game" is a bit ridiculous considering how awful we were on the ball. 

I mean that first half. I lost count of the amount of times we just hoofed the ball forward without any purpose. 

 

I really wish people would stop looking at individual performances in isolation. Team performance effects individual performance and vice versa.

If the team is playing shit on a stick football then that is going to have a negative effect on your 5ft 8 ball carrying attacking player. 

About the off the ball movement. 

Hazard and Costa were making plenty of runs, problem was that the passes they got were a lot of the time aimless, poor and coming from way too far making it easy to defend against. 

 

I think like alot of our players Eden gives his moments of pure genius inbetween spells of nothingness. What we have to decide is whether we are happy to carry on with him cause has its been mentioned hes been similar since joining and is PROBABLY at his best right now unless he has a change of attitude.

But as this coment states he cant shoulder all the blame for those spells of nothingness.

Yesterday (and many games) we have been relying on these long booted upfield balls in their general direction.

We are severely lacking any proper creativity either in defence or central midfield thats able to take the ball with him or get the ball forward precisely enough to any of the top 3 lads.

Alot of our passing, specially yesterday, has been sad. And I get so fed up of sideways and backward passes. When Cescy is given the time and space hes the only creativity we have got. He picked out a few great passes yesterday.

I understand that SOMETIMES its part of the wider gameplan tempting their players forrwards so we can get more space for us on the break, but we was playing so fast and smooth with keeping posession a couple of months back so I dont understand whats changed..

I know that we cant imagine to make a challenge in Europe unless we upgrade a couple of starting positions and I cant see anyone we have come in and it make much difference.

And on a sidenote our defence yesterday was shite!

[Polo7 3,496]

I get that he can't be expected to control a long ball by the goalie then turn, run and score. But yesterday he wasn't even getting simple passes right. It was a pathetic display by him. No he wasn't the only one, but he has games where he looks like he can't be bothered.

[Unionjack 7,532]

20 minutes ago, Polo7 said:

I get that he can't be expected to control a long ball by the goalie then turn, run and score. But yesterday he wasn't even getting simple passes right. It was a pathetic display by him. No he wasn't the only one, but he has games where he looks like he can't be bothered.

I hear ya.

Its when he gets into that swagger and he's feeling like hes the dogs dangleys that he really is what he thinks.

Hes definitely got some type of confidence issues that comes into his games.

[manpe 10,861]

3 hours ago, Unionjack said:

What we have to decide is whether we are happy to carry on with him cause has its been mentioned hes been similar since joining and is PROBABLY at his best right now unless he has a change of attitude.

Not sure if that's a serious consideration? Hazard is a world class attacker, the best we got and the best we can have. If we sold him we'd replace him with someone like Shaqiri, can't imagine that being any better. I can't think of any left winger out there who is a realistic target and a better more consistent player, can you? If we sell the likes of Costa and Hazard, especially during one window, we'll slip back to mediocrity for a few years with stop-gap signings until a rare bargain with low self-esteem comes along once in a blue moon. But by then we might not have any serious pull for such players, because I can imagine top players wanting to play together with Hazard and Costa in a championship winning team, not Europa League hopefuls with Redmond and Llorente or whoever on their level we would no doubt replace them with.

Have some perspective people. He doesn't put in jaw-dropping performances every game, but when he does it is out of this world and so important to us. More important than the games against tin pot clubs that we can (or should) win without him. He shouldn't even have played that game, don't know why he did... probably because of lack of options. Or Conte doesn't have confidence in the team without him, which says more about the team than Hazard. Now I'm not saying he didn't suck against Wolves, he did, but he would need to have a lot more of those stinking games to cancel out all the awesome things he has done for us.

[Unionjack 7,532]

14 minutes ago, manpe said:

Not sure if that's a serious consideration? Hazard is a world class attacker, the best we got and the best we can have. If we sold him we'd replace him with someone like Shaqiri, can't imagine that being any better. I can't think of any left winger out there who is a realistic target and a better more consistent player, can you? If we sell the likes of Costa and Hazard, especially during one window, we'll slip back to mediocrity for a few years with stop-gap signings until a rare bargain with low self-esteem comes along once in a blue moon. But by then we might not have any serious pull for such players, because I can imagine top players wanting to play together with Hazard and Costa in a championship winning team, not Europa League hopefuls with Redmond and Llorente or whoever on their level we would no doubt replace them with.

Have some perspective people. He doesn't put in jaw-dropping performances every game, but when he does it is out of this world and so important to us. More important than the games against tin pot clubs that we can (or should) win without him. He shouldn't even have played that game, don't know why he did... probably because of lack of options. Or Conte doesn't have confidence in the team without him, which says more about the team than Hazard. Now I'm not saying he didn't suck against Wolves, he did, but he would need to have a lot more of those stinking games to cancel out all the awesome things he has done for us.

Well it was just a question mate.

One that I would answer Of fuckin course I'd keep him.

But ya gotta play devils advocate sometimes and we do need to look at both positive and negative sides of all our players without any form of emotions coming into the equation. Its all anout the team and not individuals - whomever they may be.

[manpe 10,861]

7 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

But ya gotta play devils advocate sometimes and we do need to look at both positive and negative sides of all our players without any form of emotions coming into the equation. Its all anout the team and not individuals - whomever they may be.

Yes, of course. Hazard makes our team better, he's a team player, it's the quality of some of his teammates that I question mostly. Particularly the likes of Matic and Willian, those would be the first ones I'd rip into with what they are not bringing to the team. If we are talking about players not developing and staying on the same level, then Willian would be first on my list.

 

 

[Tomo 21,751]

On 2/18/2017 at 6:21 PM, Tautvix said:

Shocking performance from Hazard so far... It's like he does a moment of magic (vs Arsenal) and then he makes 5 shit performances, then does something impressive again. And it repeats.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Moment of magic then 5 shit performances

[Tautvix 1,321]

14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Moment of magic then 5 shit performances

You can like it or not but it's more or less true After Arsenal game he has now had 2 very bad games. Before Arsenal a few bad games too.

[Tomo 21,751]

29 minutes ago, Tautvix said:

You can like it or not but it's more or less true After Arsenal game he has now had 2 very bad games. Before Arsenal a few bad games too.

No it's not, very rarely does he have a major bad game, most of his "bad games" still involve him creating chances and serious inroads for teammates, like at Anfield, five times at least he created strong attacking situations for the team which the teammates (particularly Moses) screwed up.

But hey this is the new generation in football so unless you are doing 40 stepovers and shooting 20 times a games to score once or twice you are shit.

[WNDS 502]

18 hours ago, manpe said:

Yes, of course. Hazard makes our team better, he's a team player, it's the quality of some of his teammates that I question mostly. Particularly the likes of Matic and Willian, those would be the first ones I'd rip into with what they are not bringing to the team. If we are talking about players not developing and staying on the same level, then Willian would be first on my list.

 

 

 

Both of those players have brought plently to the team so far this season.

I mean, Willian's got 7 goals and 3 assists as a squad player who has played only just over half the minutes that Hazard (10 goals 5 assists) has this season; this is the sort of return you want from a squad player, isn't it?

By my calculations, the attacking contributions of Willian (and Fabregas) have been vital in ensuring that we have our current 8-point lead. Willian has scored the winning goals against Hull, Man City, and Stoke (6 points right there), whilst also making impotant contributions against Burnley (scored the second goal to kill the game), Sunderland (assisted Fabregas' winner), and Leicester (had a big hand in two of the three goals). Fabregas has provided crucial assists against Watford (for the winner), Man City (for the equaliser), Bournemouth (for the winner), and Stoke (two assists that were the difference between a draw and a win), whilst also scoring the aforementioned winner against Sunderland. Basically, the two of them have been excellent squad players so far this season, and are EXACTLY the calibre of player that we should be aiming to have as 'first-choice' rotational options. Sure, both of them have been inconsistent (particularly Willian), but that's what happens to any player who isn't allowed the opportunity to establish a rhythm within the first 11.

And as for Matic.... Yeah, the guy has clear limitations to his game, and yeah, he should probably not start quite as many games as he does, BUT he was excellent for around four of the first five months of this season, and was absolutely crucial to the initial implementation of the 3-4-3. He has (and will continue to have) a very important role within the current set-up, limitations and all.

Seriously, what type of squad depth do you (and others) think we can realistically achieve? Even clubs like Barca, Real, and Bayern struggle to keep their higher-quality squad players happy and contributing, and EVEN these clubs do NOT possess world-class talent throughout their benches.

And speaking of world-class talent, Hazard (who I belive IS a world-class player, despite what other posters have been saying) CANNOT simply coast on his inherent quality and put in displays like he did against Wolves; his attitude and application absolutely stank the place out. It's notable that over the last month or two it is Pedro (a very good player indeed, but not on Hazard's level in terms of raw ability) who is looking increasingly like the key man in our 3-man forward line, being the one who seems to contribute the most in terms of both direct attacking contributions AND positional/defensive work at the moment.

[mccg 1,528]

Eden Hazard vs. Wolves: Should we be concerned with latest subpar showing? 

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2017/2/19/14663744/eden-hazard-wolverhampton-wanderers-chelsea-fa-cup-individual-highlights-concerns#comments

[manpe 10,861]

47 minutes ago, WNDS said:

 

Both of those players have brought plently to the team so far this season.

I mean, Willian's got 7 goals and 3 assists as a squad player who has played only just over half the minutes that Hazard (10 goals 5 assists) has this season; this is the sort of return you want from a squad player, isn't it?

By my calculations, the attacking contributions of Willian (and Fabregas) have been vital in ensuring that we have our current 8-point lead. Willian has scored the winning goals against Hull, Man City, and Stoke (6 points right there), whilst also making impotant contributions against Burnley (scored the second goal to kill the game), Sunderland (assisted Fabregas' winner), and Leicester (had a big hand in two of the three goals). Fabregas has provided crucial assists against Watford (for the winner), Man City (for the equaliser), Bournemouth (for the winner), and Stoke (two assists that were the difference between a draw and a win), whilst also scoring the aforementioned winner against Sunderland. Basically, the two of them have been excellent squad players so far this season, and are EXACTLY the calibre of player that we should be aiming to have as 'first-choice' rotational options. Sure, both of them have been inconsistent (particularly Willian), but that's what happens to any player who isn't allowed the opportunity to establish a rhythm within the first 11.

And as for Matic.... Yeah, the guy has clear limitations to his game, and yeah, he should probably not start quite as many games as he does, BUT he was excellent for around four of the first five months of this season, and was absolutely crucial to the initial implementation of the 3-4-3. He has (and will continue to have) a very important role within the current set-up, limitations and all.

Seriously, what type of squad depth do you (and others) think we can realistically achieve? Even clubs like Barca, Real, and Bayern struggle to keep their higher-quality squad players happy and contributing, and EVEN these clubs do NOT possess world-class talent throughout their benches.

And speaking of world-class talent, Hazard (who I belive IS a world-class player, despite what other posters have been saying) CANNOT simply coast on his inherent quality and put in displays like he did against Wolves; his attitude and application absolutely stank the place out. It's notable that over the last month or two it is Pedro (a very good player indeed, but not on Hazard's level in terms of raw ability) who is looking increasingly like the key man in our 3-man forward line, being the one who seems to contribute the most in terms of both direct attacking contributions AND positional/defensive work at the moment.

You wrote this post on the assumption that I think they don't bring anything to the team. This couldn't be further from truth, re-read my post and you will see nowhere did I state such a ridiculous thing. I don't contest any point you made, they're all true. 

[WNDS 502]

28 minutes ago, manpe said:

You wrote this post on the assumption that I think they don't bring anything to the team. This couldn't be further from truth, re-read my post and you will see nowhere did I state such a ridiculous thing. I don't contest any point you made, they're all true. 

You said that you'd 'rip into' Matic and Willian for what they fail to bring to the team, and implied that their lack of quality was such that they are not worthy of sharing a team with Hazard. At least that's how your post reads to me. Even after re-reading it.

If you meant differently, then fair enough. But using terms like 'rip into' when describing your own criticism of some of our players seems over the top to me given what they have contributed so far this season. Too many people give the impression that players who play for the team they support MUST be starting 11 quality outright or they can gtfo. I'm tired of encountering this attitude seemingly everywhere nowadays, and so maybe I'm too quick to confront people who are raising more valid points that I have misinterpreted.

[manpe 10,861]

6 minutes ago, WNDS said:

You said that you'd 'rip into' Matic and Willian for what they fail to bring to the team, and implied that their lack of quality was such that they are not worthy of sharing a team with Hazard. At least that's how your post reads to me. Even after re-reading it.

If you meant differently, then fair enough. But using terms like 'rip into' when describing your own criticism of some of our players seems over the top to me given what they have contributed so far this season. Too many people give the impression that players who play for the team they support MUST be starting 11 quality outright or they can gtfo. I'm tired of encountering this attitude seemingly everywhere nowadays, and so maybe I'm too quick to confront people who are raising more valid points that I have misinterpreted.

Honest mistake, English is not my first language and it was the first expression that came to mind, I didn't give much thought to the wording. I'd be happy to keep both as squad players, but with our ambitions they shouldn't be automatic starters imo (Willian already isn't I know). It's clear to see what both bring to the team or we wouldn't be leaders, but there are some critical aspects in which both are lacking that limits our ceiling at a certain height, but we need to go higher if that makes sense. Hazard imho is not an issue here.

[WNDS 502]

25 minutes ago, manpe said:

Honest mistake, English is not my first language and it was the first expression that came to mind, I didn't give much thought to the wording. I'd be happy to keep both as squad players, but with our ambitions they shouldn't be automatic starters imo. It's clear to see what both bring to the team or we wouldn't be leaders, but there are some critical aspects in which both are lacking that limits our ceiling at a certain height, but we need to go higher if that makes sense.

That's more than fair fair enough, and it makes perfect sense to me. If we're in the CL next season and are making a serious effort to be genuinely competitive, certain improvements will probably have to be made to the starting 11; Matic, Cahill, and possibly one of either Moses or Alonso are the players who appear most vulnerable at the moment.

That being said, we can only reach a certain level of overall squad depth and quality before we risk harming squad unity. I think that Willian, Cahill, and Moses/Alonso would all be fine with 'expanded squad roles' next season (the season after that, I'm not so sure), but Fabregas and Matic are the two that I can see leaving under these circumstances. Pedro could also be a worry if we strengthen the forward line, as he didn't leave the club he loves (Barcelona) to find himself with the same squad role that he already had (despite the form he's been in this season, he's almost certain to be the man to lose-out if someone new and 'shiny' arrives and Hazard+Costa are retained).

[Tautvix 1,321]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

No it's not, very rarely does he have a major bad game, most of his "bad games" still involve him creating chances and serious inroads for teammates, like at Anfield, five times at least he created strong attacking situations for the team which the teammates (particularly Moses) screwed up.

But hey this is the new generation in football so unless you are doing 40 stepovers and shooting 20 times a games to score once or twice you are shit.

I have never said he is shit My point is he is not on the level he is/was supposed to be.

[BoyBlue96 990]

He's a good player. Class player. A good player for us who will be difficult to replace but he is NOT world class. If Real eye him to replace CR7 on the left, well good luck because Hazard is and will never be on that guy's level. 

[Tomo 21,751]

6 hours ago, Tautvix said:

I have never said he is shit My point is he is not on the level he is/was supposed to be.

That was more in jest, but what level was that? The only level up to what he currently is is Messi/Ronaldo level.

A winger who gets to teens in goals every season (last year aside) and creates numerous inroads in a game is gold dust, I dread to think this team without him, we would hit 10/11 levels of lack of creativity.

[Kieran. 6,317]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

That was more in jest, but what level was that? The only level up to what he currently is is Messi/Ronaldo level.

A winger who gets to teens in goals every season (last year aside) and creates numerous inroads in a game is gold dust, I dread to think this team without him, we would hit 10/11 levels of lack of creativity.

He has been a bit disappointing you have to admit.