🇧🇷 David Luiz

[Barbara 15,149]

You said 'who the hell is supposed to take over his spot?'. I asked to which spot you were referring, his spot on the bench or his spot as a DM. We've signed Matic so its less likely he'll play in midfield.

So I assume you mean his spot as third choice defender, and for that I'd probably go with Zouma next season.

If Terry is injured then I'd start Cahill and Zouma and move Ivanovic to third choice. That's based on us getting a left-back in the summer (hopefully Shaw) and being able to play Azpi at right-back more often.

Against Liverpool? I dunno. Can we trust Luiz in defence against a team as good as Liverpool?

How many games as Luiz played as a centre-back since November 2nd (or the last THREE months) in the league?

I'd be much more confident about him there than Kalas or a newly-signed Zouma, who will only be available next season.

Terry isn't getting any younger and I'm very thankful he didn't pick an injury this season (and I hope it stays that way), but six months from now he'll be six months older and we don't know how long Cahill's form will last.

Cahill is at his best form of his career at age 28. If he's peaked at age 28, then why can't Luiz too? That right there should invalidate your pragmatic theory that Luiz is too old to improve. Cahill did. Everyone with two eyes (and even without any football knowledge) can watch vids just from last season and this season and see Cahill improved a lot. We don't know how long that will last (again I also hope it stays that way for a long time), so what's wrong with having a strong contingency plan?

And people should be convinced of something that Mourinho said many times: Luiz isn't for sale. I'm not saying Chelsea won't accept a bid for him. But since pre-season and in both transfer windows Mourinho has been emphatic on turning down bids for him, saying he isn't for sale and that he won't leave. That was never how Mourinho talked about Mata or de Bruyne - both of which he said he'd like to keep, but that could leave if they saw fitting. The only way I can see Luiz leaving now is if he puts a request to leave or if we receive 40m+ bid for him. And the reason why Mourinho won't release him as easily as he's released Mata and de Bruyne is simply because he knows that if something affects Terry's or Cahill's good form, or if Luiz regains his form again, he has the right man for the job...

Luiz has made wonderful matches for us in the 3 years he's here, against Liverpool including, so if he's in form, I don't see why he shouldn't play. Regardless of his form though, to say Zouma or Kalas (!) should be higher in the picking order for such a match is nonsense.

[xPetrCechx 13,572]

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'd be much more confident about him there than Kalas or a newly-signed Zouma, who will only be available next season.

Terry isn't getting any younger and I'm very thankful he didn't pick an injury this season (and I hope it stays that way), but six months from now he'll be six months older and we don't know how long Cahill's form will last.

Cahill is at his best form of his career at age 28. If he's peaked at age 28, then why can't Luiz too? That right there should invalidate your pragmatic theory that Luiz is too old to improve. Cahill did. Everyone with two eyes (and even without any football knowledge) can watch vids just from last season and this season and see Cahill improved a lot. We don't know how long that will last (again I also hope it stays that way for a long time), so what's wrong with having a strong contingency plan?

Cahill has been a fairly consistent, unspectacular player for much of his career and I don't think he's massively changed from that. He's playing under a better manager in a better, more solid system and he's simply carried on doing the simply things he's always done fairly well.

David Luiz is the same player he was when we signed him, except he hoofs the ball out a little bit more than he used to. Under Mourinho he's been dropped twice and seen more time as a midfielder in the last few months.

But who knows, maybe Luiz can peak in a year's time. That might be around the time he gets a start in defence next.

And people should be convinced of something that Mourinho said many times: Luiz isn't for sale. I'm not saying Chelsea won't accept a bid for him. But since pre-season and in both transfer windows Mourinho has been emphatic on turning down bids for him, saying he isn't for sale and that he won't leave. That was never how Mourinho talked about Mata or de Bruyne - both of which he said he'd like to keep, but that could leave if they saw fitting. The only way I can see Luiz leaving now is if he puts a request to leave or if we receive 40m+ bid for him. And the reason why Mourinho won't release him as easily as he's released Mata and de Bruyne is simply because he knows that if something affects Terry's or Cahill's good form, or if Luiz regains his form again, he has the right man for the job...

If Barca come in with the £30 million bid that was rumoured a while back, why not let him go? We have midfield cover now in Matic and a bright young prospect with amazing potential in Zouma.

Here's the thing....you talk about Luiz in terms of potential, but the guy is 26 and is making the same boneheaded mistakes he made when he was 23. Where's the progression? Where's the ability to learn?

I would honestly take Zouma over him as third choice centre-back next season and use the money to invest in other areas.

Luiz has made wonderful matches for us in the 3 years he's here, against Liverpool including, so if he's in form, I don't see why he shouldn't play. Regardless of his form though, to say Zouma or Kalas (!) should be higher in the picking order for such a match is nonsense.

It's not nonsense to suggest we sell a DEFENDER who has played in defence TWICE in the last THREE months in the league.

[Barbara 15,149]

It's not nonsense to suggest we sell a DEFENDER who has played in defence TWICE in the last THREE months in the league.

and when have I ever said we shouldn't sell him? I'm just saying Mourinho won't release him as easily because his case isn't that similar to Mata (although there are some similarities). It's one thing to say we should sell him and it's another to say I don't think we will. All my posts in the subject here fit the latter.

For a good amount of money I think we should sell him, but we should also sign another more experienced CB to replace him simply because of what I just said, Terry being prone to pick injuries and Cahill having a dig in form (just like Luiz had) would leave us short in the position and the current replacements would impact the team negatively.

[dee25 1,044]

and when have I ever said we shouldn't sell him? I'm just saying Mourinho won't release him as easily because his case isn't that similar to Mata (although there are some similarities). It's one thing to say we should sell him and it's another to say I don't think we will. All my posts in the subject here fit the latter.

For a good amount of money I think we should sell him, but we should also sign another more experienced CB to replace him simply because of what I just said, Terry being prone to pick injuries and Cahill having a dig in form (just like Luiz had) would leave us short in the position and the current replacements would impact the team negatively.

There's also Ivanovic though.....

I'm really curious to see what Mourinho plans on doing with Luiz. Right now Cahill is in the form of his life and Terry has been our most consistent centre back. Is Luiz going to be happy sitting on the bench and just being a rotational option?

[The only place to be 11,313]

and when have I ever said we shouldn't sell him? I'm just saying Mourinho won't release him as easily because his case isn't that similar to Mata (although there are some similarities). It's one thing to say we should sell him and it's another to say I don't think we will. All my posts in the subject here fit the latter.

For a good amount of money I think we should sell him, but we should also sign another more experienced CB to replace him simply because of what I just said, Terry being prone to pick injuries and Cahill having a dig in form (just like Luiz had) would leave us short in the position and the current replacements would impact the team negatively.

Terry, Cahill, Zouma, Ivanovic, Omeruo, Kalas.

That to me is sufficient centre-back cover. I really do like Zouma and although we talk about his potential I think he could contribute like Varane did at the same age for Madrid.

[mediator 2,026]

I really want to see a Matic - Luiz pivot this year. I think this could be a strong, creative, defensive partnership

[Barbara 15,149]

There's also Ivanovic though.....

I'm really curious to see what Mourinho plans on doing with Luiz. Right now Cahill is in the form of his life and Terry has been our most consistent centre back. Is Luiz going to be happy sitting on the bench and just being a rotational option?

I don't like him as a CB... and neither does Mourinho. But the same Mourinho said he wouldn't play Luiz in the midfield (which is also my opinion) and he's played there a few matches. So maybe Mourinho would go back in his words, because I think if Luiz is sold (which he won't at least until the summer), Mourinho might be more willing to give Ivanovic a chance rather than deploying newly arrived Zouma or Kalas there.

Terry, Cahill, Zouma, Ivanovic, Omeruo, Kalas.

That to me is sufficient centre-back cover. I really do like Zouma and although we talk about his potential I think he could contribute like Varane did at the same age for Madrid.

Maybe you're right about Zouma. I'd still prefer us to sign another proper and experienced CB if we part ways with Luiz.

***********

btw, if I were to choose a future for Luiz based on how much I like him and forget about Chelsea, I'd say sell him asap. He's lost his joy of playing, it's been a very complicated months for him here, I think with time it may even affect his production in the NT (which is never of my concern, but I'm sure is his #1 priority). So he deserves to go somewhere he'll be appreciated and his style of defending is too. I think he's deflected right now and in a bad place, so if I had to support a decision based on his feelings and on my feelings for him, I'd say, get rid of him. But I still think it's better for Chelsea to keep him, even if he's deflected, sad, miserable as he looks lately.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Against Liverpool? I dunno. Can we trust Luiz in defence against a team as good as Liverpool?

Seems you have forgotten Luiz's ability completely just because he's been off form and Cahill has been in the form of his life. That's the only reason Luiz isn't playing because Cahill getting dropped would make no sense right now as he doesn't deserve it.

Can we trust Luiz against a team against Liverpool? Tell me, when was the last time Luiz made a mistake in a big game? And how many mistakes has he made in big games in general... You won't find many at all.

[duo11bluecl 207]

At the end of the day it is not just down to his on field performance but off field ideas as well. He is definitely a useful player for us, but with his value atm being 30m min and him being used sparingly by Jose, is this worth it to keep him? As we seen with Mata, who is at the very peak atm, that players who got no use for Jose(or very little) will get sold, especially if they are worth big bucks.

6 years ago sure Luiz would never be sold until he wants out, but now with all these FFP craps we actually need to think about economical reasons as well. So the question is not whether we should sell Luiz but whether IT IS WORTH IT TO KEEP HIM IN TERM OF THE SITUATION. I mean we don't find a lot of expensive players like him and Mata sitting around for important games yet still worth big bucks.

At the end of the season, unless he suddenly becomes indispensable. I could see Jose selling him tbf. Not because he hates him, but just that he cannot afford to have someone like him sitting on the bench and us needing money to sign other more useful players to Jose like Shaw and Costa.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

From reading this thread, I get the feeling that we almost want Cahill's form to dip so that Luiz can get back in the teamsheet

[Muzchap 8,966]

From reading this thread, I get the feeling that we almost want Cahill's form to dip so that Luiz can get back in the teamsheet

Probably a bit harsh

Think people are trying to work out Luiz's long term prospects

I'm glad for once we have healthy FORM based competition and people aren't an automatic shoo-in because that makes players hungry

I think it's way too early to see and judge Mourinhos plans - as a team we are more consistent now and I like that.

Luiz will get his chance to impress

[The only place to be 11,313]

Seems you have forgotten Luiz's ability completely just because he's been off form and Cahill has been in the form of his life. That's the only reason Luiz isn't playing because Cahill getting dropped would make no sense right now as he doesn't deserve it.

Can we trust Luiz against a team against Liverpool? Tell me, when was the last time Luiz made a mistake in a big game? And how many mistakes has he made in big games in general... You won't find many at all.

I haven't forgotten his ability. In fact I've seen it written here a few times that 'we knew what we were signing when we bought Luiz' and 'he is who he is' or words to that effect. I'm not talking about his form. I'm talking about who David Luiz is as a player and that's pretty much the same guy he was at 23.

The last time he made a major mistake in a big game off the top of my head was against Cardiff at home. He also had a poor game away to Newcastle.

Either way, 2 games at CB since the start of November tells it's own tale.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I haven't forgotten his ability. In fact I've seen it written here a few times that 'we knew what we were signing when we bought Luiz' and 'he is who he is' or words to that effect. I'm not talking about his form. I'm talking about who David Luiz is as a player and that's pretty much the same guy he was at 23.

The last time he made a major mistake in a big game off the top of my head was against Cardiff at home. He also had a poor game away to Newcastle.

Either way, 2 games at CB since the start of November tells it's own tale.

No he isn't the same guy... You're acting like Luiz has not changed whatsoever which is simply untrue. He's not the same sort of defender anymore - that enthusiasm when he first came has pretty much been beaten out of him. He was maturing as a player up until the very end of last season and if he continued that sort of form he'd be our number 1 CB but obviously due to international duties, injuries, a lack of pre season, and Gary Cahill taking his chance he hasn't been able to play as often and has stalled. It's really that simple.

Cardiff at home isn't a big game... I thought you were on about Liverpool calibre opponents.

And the tale is pretty simple. Gary Cahill is in the form of his life and has had solid game after solid game for a while now, it would be extremely harsh and hypocritical of Mourinho to drop him when Luiz isn't at top form either.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No he isn't the same guy... You're acting like Luiz has not changed whatsoever which is simply untrue. He's not the same sort of defender anymore - that enthusiasm when he first came has pretty much been beaten out of him. He was maturing as a player up until the very end of last season and if he continued that sort of form he'd be our number 1 CB but obviously due to international duties, injuries, a lack of pre season, and Gary Cahill taking his chance he hasn't been able to play as often and has stalled. It's really that simple.

He hasn't stalled. This is just his ups and downs and the only progress I've seen is that he's more willing to hack the ball clear, almost completely without thought at times.

Cardiff at home isn't a big game... I thought you were on about Liverpool calibre opponents.

Exactly the type of thinking I hate in David Luiz.

Are the prices any cheaper? Are the three points any less 'three pointy'? Do they not count in the league?

At the start of that day, David Luiz is given the chance to wear the Blue of Chelsea for the day. The same Blue that hundreds have represented with honour and millions around the world support. Saying it isn't a big game is exactly the problem David Luiz has in my opinion.

And the tale is pretty simple. Gary Cahill is in the form of his life and has had solid game after solid game for a while now, it would be extremely harsh and hypocritical of Mourinho to drop him when Luiz isn't at top form either.

Now the myth that Gary Cahill has channelled Franco Baresi for the last three months. He hasn't. He's just been fairly solid and not done anything stupid.

[robsblubot 3,595]

He hasn't stalled. This is just his ups and downs and the only progress I've seen is that he's more willing to hack the ball clear, almost completely without thought at times.

Exactly the type of thinking I hate in David Luiz.

Are the prices any cheaper? Are the three points any less 'three pointy'? Do they not count in the league?

At the start of that day, David Luiz is given the chance to wear the Blue of Chelsea for the day. The same Blue that hundreds have represented with honour and millions around the world support. Saying it isn't a big game is exactly the problem David Luiz has in my opinion.

Now the myth that Gary Cahill has channelled Franco Baresi for the last three months. He hasn't. He's just been fairly solid and not done anything stupid.

Gotta take risks to win games esp when the opponent sits back. What u 'hate' about luiz is just his way of trying to help unlock a tight defense. Even as a cb he has the ability to do just that and i reckon managers encourage that when appropriate - against a weak opponent at home. We just saw what happens when we don't take risks when we dropped points against west ham at home.

It all boils down to personal preferences. To me a defender that 'doesn't do anything stupid' May or May not be good enough. For me it's about what he brings when we face the toughest of opponents.

Cahill did a poor job handling skillful FWs a many times before - ppl May gave forgotten that too.

Staying with English defenders I believe Phil jones will be twice the defender Cahill is and Smalling might become a better defender too, unfortunately.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Gotta take risks to win games esp when the opponent sits back. What u 'hate' about luiz is just his way of trying to help unlock a tight defense. Even as a cb he has the ability to do just that and i reckon managers encourage that when appropriate - against a weak opponent at home. We just saw what happens when we don't take risks when we dropped points against west ham at home.

Don't take risks?? We created 39 chances against West Ham and got behind their first bank almost at will. Plus I've never looked at Cahill and Terry and wanted them to help unlock a tight defence. That's the job of the 8 players in front of them.

It all boils down to personal preferences. To me a defender that 'doesn't do anything stupid' May or May not be good enough. For me it's about what he brings when we face the toughest of opponents.

We've beaten Man City, Man United and Liverpool at home without him. If the centre-halves keep it tight then we're always in with a shout.

Cahill did a poor job handling skillful FWs a many times before - ppl May gave forgotten that too.

Staying with English defenders I believe Phil jones will be twice the defender Cahill is and Smalling might become a better defender too, unfortunately.

Which skilful forwards are you talking about? That's the thing with skilful forwards though....they're skilful.

Phil Jones might yet live up to his potential, but I'm not sure what this has got to do with anything in this thread.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Don't take risks?? We created 39 chances against West Ham and got behind their first bank almost at will. Plus I've never looked at Cahill and Terry and wanted them to help unlock a tight defence. That's the job of the 8 players in front of them.

We've beaten Man City, Man United and Liverpool at home without him. If the centre-halves keep it tight then we're always in with a shout.

Which skilful forwards are you talking about? That's the thing with skilful forwards though....they're skilful.

Phil Jones might yet live up to his potential, but I'm not sure what this has got to do with anything in this thread.

It's not about the number of chances but their quality. The fact is we did not produce enough quality chances we we didn't score - opinions aside.

From top of my had remember Corinthians Guerrero taking him to dance. Aguero skipping past him as if he weren't there. Even mediocre Defoe beat him. So yes I see vast improvement in Cahill this season.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's not about the number of chances but their quality. The fact is we did not produce enough quality chances we we didn't score - opinions aside.

Lampard. 12 yards out. Centre of goal.

If you're not scoring those goals then it's just not your day.

[The Skipper 20,609]

He hasn't stalled. This is just his ups and downs and the only progress I've seen is that he's more willing to hack the ball clear, almost completely without thought at times.

Seriously? So easy for you to completely forget that he was really good defensively at the end of last season because he isn't having a good time this season. Do you think he's not progressed at all as a player (taking away this season so far)? Because that is a ridiculous notion to make IMO.

Are the prices any cheaper? Are the three points any less 'three pointy'? Do they not count in the league?

At the start of that day, David Luiz is given the chance to wear the Blue of Chelsea for the day. The same Blue that hundreds have represented with honour and millions around the world support. Saying it isn't a big game is exactly the problem David Luiz has in my opinion.

I wasn't saying that - I thought you suggested that Luiz doesn't play well in the massive games which isn't true. I wasn't talking about his mentality in the smaller games. Apart from this season, his mentality in smaller games have been great, he was often one of the players that tried to step up when things weren't going our way, and it seems like you're completely forgetting that because he hasn't been the best this season.

Now the myth that Gary Cahill has channelled Franco Baresi for the last three months. He hasn't. He's just been fairly solid and not done anything stupid.

So this hasn't been Cahill's most consistent form in a Chelsea shirt?