Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 30,233]

2 hours ago, cosmicway said:

If Israel is defeated then there will be nukes stationed at the east med coasts aiming against Turkey-Greece-Cyprus-Italy.

non sequitur

no one us calling for Israel to be defeated

I just don't want to see the cycle of war crimes by both sides continue

there needs to be a 2 state solution 

with the 1967 borders honoured

Edited October 16, 2023 by Vesper

[cosmicway 1,333]

10 minutes ago, Vesper said:

non sequitur

no one us calling for Israel to be defeated

I just do want to see the cycle of war crimes by both sides continue

there needs to be a 2 state solution 

with the 1967 borders honoured

D day was a war crime.
Many soldiers died but not only soldiers. In the town of Caen that was heavily fortified by the Germans the French civilians were all but wiped out by the British bombardment.
We don't call it a war crime, the French don't call it a war crime.
We/they call only the nazis war criminals because they started the war.

You can't take away a nation's right to defend itself against invaders.
I don't see how a two state solution will stop Hamas-Hezbollah firing rockets like they do now.
They don't even want this to happen, they will sabotage it.
Only Blinken offered an idea of solution.

 

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

16 hours ago, Vesper said:

lol, a football board is one of the few sane places to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian situ

 

It was invaded by Israeli bots in 2012 when it was discussed 😬

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

Some things the corporate media doesnt let us know.

This year Israeli forces and settlers had murdered at least 34 Palestinian children in the West Bank as of August 22 2023. (Source UN Human Rights Watch, and Save the Cheildren)

 716 children have been killed in Gaza and another 2,450 have been injured since last Saturday, Oct 14th ( United Nations Children’s Fund)

Israeli Human Rights organisation Yesh Din says the chances of an Israeli soldier being indicted for killing a child is 0.7%

[robsblubot 3,595]

that's unsurprising and it's war... there will be collateral damage once the killing starts. At least it is "collateral damage" as opposed to targeting civilians.

Israel has a government tho; people can protest, demand, criticize and question their leaders and their decisions. Not so much on the other side.

From a government perspective alone, sorry I think in that, there is a clear winner even if fallible government like any other.

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

At least it is "collateral damage" as opposed to targeting civilians.

The sources are clear at least 2500 Palestinian Children killed by settlers and israeli forces since 2000. 96% of deaths in the same period are Palestinians, driven from their own land (UN). In a fucked up reality is it 'collateral'damage' it is delibarate targetting of civilians to steal their land. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

19 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

The sources are clear at least 2500 Palestinian Children killed by settlers and israeli forces since 2000. 96% of deaths in the same period are Palestinians, driven from their own land (UN). In a fucked up reality is it 'collateral'damage' it is delibarate targetting of civilians to steal their land. 

Yeah definitely, if that's the reality of what happened. I honestly think points of views change drastically in that area. Would like to see how the data is acquired, who reported, and esp what is considered "own land." Depending on who you ask "own land" can drastically vary.

Wasn't the two-state on the table at some point in the past and was refused. The Palestinians refused it because they did not like the land division back then.

I don't pretend to know the motivation of what Israel does, but I know (from personal experience) that their life in that small stretch of land isn't a relaxing one; they are always looking out for aggression, and for good reason.

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

15 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Yeah definitely, if that's the reality of what happened. I honestly think points of views change drastically in that area. Would like to see how the data is acquired, who reported, and esp what is considered "own land." Depending on who you ask "own land" can drastically vary.

Wasn't the two-state on the table at some point in the past and was refused. The Palestinians refused it because they did not like the land division back then.

I don't pretend to know the motivation of what Israel does, but I know (from personal experience) that their life in that small stretch of land isn't a relaxing one; they are always looking out for aggression, and for good reason.

Yes its difficult, not helped by an Israeli right wing government. Previous israeli leaders are appalled by Netanyahu turning a blind eye at best and actively encouruaging stealing more land and killing Palestinians. 

''2022 was the deadliest year in decades for Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation, in which some 146 people were killed by Israeli forces. This year is on track to be even deadlier. In January and February, at least 60 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces or settlers in the occupied West Bank, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem. '' TIME

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks - BBC News

All of this led up to the retaliatory attacks by Hamas. We know two wrongs dont make a right, but context is everything.

Considering israeli intelligence is allegedly the best in the World, its remarkable they didnt know the Hamas retaliatory attack was coming. Maybe they were looking at the bigger picture, invading Gaza. Every time they have seized palestinian territory, since 1948 they havent returned it

[robsblubot 3,595]

2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Yes its difficult, not helped by an Israeli right wing government. Previous israeli leaders are appalled by Netanyahu turning a blind eye at best and actively encouruaging stealing more land and killing Palestinians. 

''2022 was the deadliest year in decades for Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation, in which some 146 people were killed by Israeli forces. This year is on track to be even deadlier. In January and February, at least 60 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces or settlers in the occupied West Bank, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem. '' TIME

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks

Palestinian fears grow amid rising Israeli settler attacks - BBC News

All of this led up to the retaliatory attacks by Hamas. We know two wrongs dont make a right, but context is everything.

Considering israeli intelligence is allegedly the best in the World, its remarkable they didnt know the Hamas retaliatory attack was coming. Maybe they were looking at the bigger picture, invading Gaza. Every time they have seized palestinian territory, since 1948 they havent returned it

Sorry, but I cannot agree with the "led" bit. I'm not sure there is equivalence here.

The author of the article you pasted above is also fairly controversial; there are several complaints regarding misinformation esp around "civilian" casualties. Terrorists are known to blur the lines between military and civilian targets.

And again, I'm not saying she is wrong, but suggesting that she may have a particular point of view, which is hard to avoid here.

[cosmicway 1,333]

There is a difference between civilian victims during war and terror.
Take for example the blitz.
The blitz was terror bombing. But the Germans were also after military targets, on the Thames.
It was by and large terror bombing -they bombed Saint Pauls- but they had some justification and all the others who performed similar actions offered some justification.
The infamous bombardier Harris also offered some justification.
Yet if any of those German pilots or RAF pilots were on the ground and they saw a child would they kill it in cold blood ? No way.

So Hamas terrorists are not the only kinds of terrorist but they are the ultimate and most depraved.
They beheaded small children and their moms who were defenseless and pleading for mercy.
The videos and the pictures they published themselves.

So Israel will be fools if they do not eradicated them from Gaza and anywhere else they are hiding.

Edited October 17, 2023 by cosmicway

[Clockwork 1,794]

I am not sure how can anyone say Israel aggression and expansion of settlements is not the problem. Look at George W Bush and Colin Powell statements in the past, how critical they were of Israel aggressive policy. For today standard they would be considered terrorist sympathizers, few on the Palestine cause would even go as far as they go. US, UK, and others have gone so far lopsided on the issue and have enabled Israel atrocities. 

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

Imagine being such a monster at 70 years old stabbing a 6 year old to death. 

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

8 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Sorry, but I cannot agree with the "led" bit. I'm not sure there is equivalence here.

The author of the article you pasted above is also fairly controversial; there are several complaints regarding misinformation esp around "civilian" casualties. Terrorists are known to blur the lines between military and civilian targets.

And again, I'm not saying she is wrong, but suggesting that she may have a particular point of view, which is hard to avoid here.

The statistics can easily be verified via the UN rather than corporate, and in many cases zionist dominated media. Hardly think they lie, being a largely US led institution. Agree terrorist states blur the lines between civilian and military targets. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

You know the world's a crazy place when, British and Americans are discussing other country's and who's worse for murdering thousands of innocent lives. 🤦

Edited October 17, 2023 by YorkshireBlue

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

3 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

 

I don't propose that Belgium should make an apartheid state against muslims, but suppose they knew all the Abdesalem Al Guilanis who live in Belgium and are members of Isis.
Should they make an "apartheid state" against them or not ?

[Fernando 6,585]

7 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

You know the world's a crazy place when, British and Americans are discussing other country's and who's worse for murdering thousands of innocent lives. 🤦

Yes because American and Brittan has done worse. Australia with aboriginals and on and on and on. 

Look at what we did to the Native Americans, British in other parts of the world when they where super power. 

In the end it's all about the love of money. It's what drive all craziness. If Israel and Gaza where to go extinct in some disaster, years later we would have something similar somewhere else. Money, the love of money is the root of all evil and that's something humans can't fight. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,279]

38 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Yes because American and Brittan has done worse. Australia with aboriginals and on and on and on. 

Look at what we did to the Native Americans, British in other parts of the world when they where super power. 

In the end it's all about the love of money. It's what drive all craziness. If Israel and Gaza where to go extinct in some disaster, years later we would have something similar somewhere else. Money, the love of money is the root of all evil and that's something humans can't fight. 

Money makes the world go round, but it will also be the reason it stops.

[robsblubot 3,595]

9 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

The statistics can easily be verified via the UN rather than corporate, and in many cases zionist dominated media. Hardly think they lie, being a largely US led institution. Agree terrorist states blur the lines between civilian and military targets. 

Agree to disagree on that one. Leaving specific options aside, statistics without context can be very misleading just like in Football. That happens  not in in offense, but also defense.

[Fulham Broadway 17,335]

58 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Agree to disagree on that one. Leaving specific options aside, statistics without context can be very misleading just like in Football. That happens  not in in offense, but also defense.

Like you said because you worked there ''my opinion is very biased''. Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree. I tend to believe the United Nations figures, backed up by the fact  Israel have broken more UN Resolutions than all other countries together.  Iraq broke two UN resolutions and got bombed back to the stone age, invaded, with 295 000 killed, resources, oil, pillaged, with up to 576 000 children dying due to sanctions, (again UN figures.) 

Israel has broken 65 UN resolutions in recent years, it just shows where US and UK interests lie.